What do you have in your kitted 200 engine?
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Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3227
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:42 am quote
For my Euro Rally dream project I've drcided I want to spend some money on it and make it fast. I tried to ask a few people at High Rollers last weekend what they were using on some of the real fast P200s but either couldn't catch them or forgot cause I had been drinking. So, if you've got a kitted 200cc engine and it's fairly reliable and dialed in could you share what you've done to it so I can start looking at options and saving some money?

I've got a running p200 motor with a Malossi kit and 24/24 carb that will be the heart of my project. I'll look at what's in it (porting, gears) but I'm leaving tonight for a trip so I'll look into it when I get back.

Thanks guys.
Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 717
Location: Seattle
Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:58 am quote
Re: What do you have in your kitted 200 engine?
MJRally wrote:
For my Euro Rally dream project I've drcided I want to spend some money on it and make it fast. I tried to ask a few people at High Rollers last weekend what they were using on some of the real fast P200s but either couldn't catch them or forgot cause I had been drinking. So, if you've got a kitted 200cc engine and it's fairly reliable and dialed in could you share what you've done to it so I can start looking at options and saving some money?

I've got a running p200 motor with a Malossi kit and 24/24 carb that will be the heart of my project. I'll look at what's in it (porting, gears) but I'm leaving tonight for a trip so I'll look into it when I get back.

Thanks guys.
Well, mine isn't up and running yet, but I will share what I am doing to it:

1980 P-series frame, sand blasted, powder coated
New P200 cases, reinforcement welds, port matched
Malossi 210 Sport MHR
SIP head
Stock P200 crank, rebuilt and modified by Hot Rod Al (cut and flowed for touring)
Rotary induction
PHBH 30mm carb
Malossi intake manifold
BGM Superstrong clutch
65/23 primary (helical cut)
EFL gearbox - stock p200 gearing ratios
BGM 120W stator
HHP v3 CDI
SIP lightened "touring" flywheel
SIP tubeless rims
Michelin S1s
LML fork with disc brake
Stella lower headset (to cleanly mount master cylinder)
BGM BigBox exhaust
BGM Pro shock set
Clauss studios motor mount buffers
MotoBatt MB5.5U sealed 12v battery
Modified glovebox for USB chargers and volt meter inserts
BGM flast flow with low fuel sensor
SIP digital speedo v2

Last edited by brentscheffler on Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:34 am; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3227
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:01 am quote
Sweet! Keep em coming.
Addicted
Rally 200, SS 180, ET3
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 683
Location: UK
Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:20 pm quote
Underneath my stock looking Rally for the past few years has been a stock looking motor with:

Pinasco ali kit (this has now been superseded by a new kit)
Cases ported
Tameni 60mm long stroke crank = 224cc
Reprofiled stock head for correct compression and squish
Stock si24 carb/jets with passageway to jets enlarged
(130MJ)
I also used a 52/140 idle jet aswell as a 55/160
Stock cosa float bowl top
Modified air filter
Bgm gast flow tap
Stock EFL electric start flywheel with ring removed
Cosa/EFL gear box
Recently fitted - BGM $$ clutch (past few years with stock cosa clutch ll with upgraded springs and plates.
Sip road
Stock 12v ducati ignition
Halogen headlight
Timing 19
Iridium B8 plug on silicone HT lead
4 season high speed rated tyres with 'Goop' in the tubes
SIP digi speedo
Gear cables uprated to the same size as the thicker clutch cable. (Less spares to carry too)!
Full tool kit with the odd spares in a small bag that tucks away nicely into the left side of the tool box.
Oil. Padlock. Whatever in the other half
33% Stiffer springs in the suspension front and back (highly recommended on a kitted Rally)!!
CHT sensor threaded directly into the cylinder head
Added battery to run 12v accessory adapter and a pair of Wind Tone horns crammed under the left side panel.
And also ive replaced the flimsy seat foam with something a lot more comfortable too, for those longer journeys.

Used as an around towner or on WOT long tours ( typically @ 60+mph) cruising speeds for many years/1000s miles.
Its never missed a beat
It was always in 4th gear from just less than 30mph and pulled all the way to 70mph. It pulled smooth and was quite nippy too

*Just recently i went a bit mad and started rasing the exhaust port and compression and lowering the squish! Very nice results so far. Time will tell if this build proves to be as ultra reliable as the previous incarnation.

If you were looking to buy a different kit for touring i'd highly recommend the long stroke versions of the new polini or new pinasco

Last edited by bholinath on Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2404
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:09 pm quote
I purchased a leftover Stella 2T last winter and sold off the wheels and tires, still looking to sell the motor, and chrome bits. I purchased a Rally 200 motor and built it up with

Polini 221 kit
Malossi piston
Pinasco 60mm crank
Dellorto VHST 28mm carb
BGM high flow fuel tap
Standard P200 gearing
Vespatronic ignition
Taffspeed MK4 pipe
BGM clutch
Clauss bushings
Hot-Rod Scooters stabilizers
Malossi RS-24 shocks
Pinasco rims
Heidenau K61s
Polini floating brake disc
and numerous other bits and pieces


Al Harpham at Hotrod Scooters
repaired the rotary pad
ported the cases, kit and did all the necessary machine work and assembly. I sourced all the parts and Al sent me a complete motor in record time.

Jonathan Gick at Gickspeed
has helped me with sorting the electrical issues. Wiring a
Vespatronic to a standard LML loom proved to be difficult, and
with the help of Rob Hodge, we were able to finally sort it to
where everything works appropriately and appears (nicer) factory. Jonathan also machined the front hub for the Polini disc and tied up a lot of loose ends.

I can't say enough about Al Harpham and Jonathan Gick. I had a quest to build a stock looking bike, that to the untrained eye appeared to be a Stella, but would run like a raped ape and cruise/tour all day long without having to wring the guts out of the motor. There were no hiccups dealing with either of these guys, who delivered in a big way. Unfortunately I did experience several supplier's who were less than acceptable with their products and business practices, but all in all it was a pleasurable experience. I'm a complete neat freak, and the work received far exceeded my expectations. Lastly, I would like to extend a big shout out to Mark at Scooter-Speed. He pulled the rabbit out of the hat on several occasions and sourced and supplied most of the parts in a professional and expedient manner and I'd also like to thank everyone on the forum who contributed their expertise and opinions which was a huge help. Thank you
Hooked
1979 P200E
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 235
Location: Seattle
Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:41 pm quote
Re: What do you have in your kitted 200 engine?
brentscheffler wrote:
MJRally wrote:
For my Euro Rally dream project I've drcided I want to spend some money on it and make it fast. I tried to ask a few people at High Rollers last weekend what they were using on some of the real fast P200s but either couldn't catch them or forgot cause I had been drinking. So, if you've got a kitted 200cc engine and it's fairly reliable and dialed in could you share what you've done to it so I can start looking at options and saving some money?

I've got a running p200 motor with a Malossi kit and 24/24 carb that will be the heart of my project. I'll look at what's in it (porting, gears) but I'm leaving tonight for a trip so I'll look into it when I get back.

Thanks guys.
Well, mine isn't up and running yet, but I will share what I am doing to it:

1980 P-series frame, sand blasted, powder coated
New P200 cases, reinforcement welds, port matched
Malossi 210 Sport MHR
SIP head
Stock P200 crank, rebuilt and modified by Hot Rod Al (cut and flowed for touring)
Rotary induction
PHBH 30mm carb
Malossi intake manifold
BGM Superstrong clutch
65/23 primary (helical cut)
EFL gearbox - stock gearing ratios
BGM 120W stator
HHP v3 CDI
SIP lightened "touring" flywheel
SIP solid aluminum rims
Michelin S1s
LML fork with disc brake
Stella lower headset (to cleanly mount master cylinder)
BGM BigBox exhaust
BGM Pro shock set
Clauss studios motor mount buffers
MotoBatt MB5.5U sealed 12v battery
Modified glovebox for USB chargers and volt meter inserts
BGM flast flow with low fuel sensor
SIP digital speedo v2
We're going to have to race.
Addicted
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 816
Location: Tucson, AZ
Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:45 pm quote
On my 79 P200E I have:

Malossi 210cc with new malossi head
26mm Del Orto(yeah, go ahead and say that is a 25.5mm.I don't care)
Simonini expansion chamber that I alternate with Sito plus
lighter flywheel from a PK80


On my 71 Sprint Veloce:

P200E engine kitted with a Malossi 210cc
Mazucheli crank
24 Del Orto
Simonini

Both fast but still scary rides over 60mph. I hardly want to go over 60mph. I enjoy the acceleration though...
Ossessionato
a lambretta or two
Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 3726
Location: San Francisco
Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:20 am quote
scooterist wrote:
On my 79 P200E I have:

Malossi 210cc with new malossi head
26mm Del Orto(yeah, go ahead and say that is a 25.5mm.I don't care)
Simonini expansion chamber that I alternate with Sito plus
lighter flywheel from a PK80


On my 71 Sprint Veloce:

P200E engine kitted with a Malossi 210cc
Mazucheli crank
24 Del Orto
Simonini

Both fast but still scary rides over 60mph. I hardly want to go over 60mph. I enjoy the acceleration though...
Is this the list of the bikes you've blown up?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1895
Location: Seattle
Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:50 am quote
sorry i missed you at vegas- i was the one with the sitcker covered cowboy hat in the daytime and the Fez at night.

really, before you go shopping for parts and asking people what they have in their engines, i'd advise to take a step back and ask yourself:

"what do i want this bike to be? what will i use it for?"

there are many different ways to tune an engine, and while someone may have what they think is the most awesome motor ever, if they want to do track days and you want to commute to work you'll have far different versions of 'ideal'.

similarly, if you want to ride from Boston to LA your ideal 'fast bike' would be different than if you want to set bonnevile records.

I've probably built a hundred kitted engines, and while most of them can be grouped as building towards 4-5 different goals, each one has been different due to rider preference, budget, and the evolution of what is available. and with very few exceptions (most due to corners cut to save costs) every one of their owners have ended up extremely pleased with them, despite them being vastly different.
Hooked
GTS300
Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 158
Location: The South
Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:47 am quote
rob hodge wrote:
"what do i want this bike to be? what will i use it for?"
This is what I was thinking as I was reading the lotto winning engine specs.

When you want 'fast', do you really want something that needs two petrol tanks to cover 100 miles?
Or, do you want something that'll happily sit at 110km/h, two up, without needing a bucket of fully synth oil every weekend?
The second one you can probably do with a well set up stock barrel and a few hours with a dremel.
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2404
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:52 pm quote
These are excellent points. With increased displacement and revs comes increased fuel consumption. Some motors scream but lack power down low, while some have gobs of torque but won't scream at the top. You can get both, but it tends to be pricey, and most builds start out with good intentions but wind up resembling an adventure in a thrift shop due to financial restraints. My stock P200 ran great before the clutch fouled the motor. I rebuilt it with an Alpha kit, rebuilt the stock crank, Vortex and put a big box on it. It has tons of torque and seems to be very solid, dependable and fast.
Hooked
GTS300
Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 158
Location: The South
Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:54 pm quote
Looking back at the original post..

How does your engine perform now? Is the kit bolted on, or fettled a bit?
Are you after more of the same? Or something a bit more exciting to ride?
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2404
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:57 pm quote
It's a stock P200 cylinder that's been bored +1, with new piston and rings. The Cylinder and piston were opened up, the rod was replaced with a RD350 rod that was cut. The flywheel was also lightened and the 24/24 carb was converted to a Vortex. I'am also running silver nitrated bearings as well. I was looking for something that had a little more oomph, but was reliable and would last for a long while, and could be ridden on rides without concern of running from gas station to gas station. It has tons of torque and will pull way down low in 3rd and fourth.

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Hooked
GTS300
Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Posts: 158
Location: The South
Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:01 pm quote
That sounds like a nice set up as it is. What pipe is on it?
Would one of the new BGM boxes give any benefit over current?
Ossessionato
'09 250 GTSie '75 Rally 200 '79 P200 '09 Stella 221
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 2404
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:07 pm quote
I was running a Sip Road II, but have switched to a Big Box which I had purchased for another bike but wound up doing something else. I've not had the opportunity to ride it since, but as soon as it warms up and we have several good rains to wash the salt from the roads, I'll be able to make an assessment. Thanks
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3227
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:22 pm quote
rob hodge wrote:
sorry i missed you at vegas- i was the one with the sitcker covered cowboy hat in the daytime and the Fez at night.

really, before you go shopping for parts and asking people what they have in their engines, i'd advise to take a step back and ask yourself:

"what do i want this bike to be? what will i use it for?"

there are many different ways to tune an engine, and while someone may have what they think is the most awesome motor ever, if they want to do track days and you want to commute to work you'll have far different versions of 'ideal'.

similarly, if you want to ride from Boston to LA your ideal 'fast bike' would be different than if you want to set bonnevile records.

I've probably built a hundred kitted engines, and while most of them can be grouped as building towards 4-5 different goals, each one has been different due to rider preference, budget, and the evolution of what is available. and with very few exceptions (most due to corners cut to save costs) every one of their owners have ended up extremely pleased with them, despite them being vastly different.
Aloha everyone! In Hawaii for a 10 day trip to see friends. Rob I saw you and your "I love Mormon pussy" sticker in Vegas. In fact the reason I'm asking the question is cause of yours and other peoples coupon for parts.

I have no idea what's in that kitted engine but I'll tear into it when I get back. When it was running it had the 24/24 carb with bigger jets and what looked to be a stock exhaust. It was nothing fancy and had no distinguishing marks. First gear was real quick and top speed was high 70s on the speedo which probably was 70 in real life.

Ideally, I'd like to make an engine that is pretty reliable, fast enough to give me a shit eating grin every time I ride it, survive a few rallys each year and the 2000 miles or so ill ride it around San Diego. I'm not worried about fuel consumption. I have another bike for touring.

I have a year to finish this project so as long as I stretch it out, I can spend whatever I want. I was just hoping to use the existing cases and the Malossi 210 kit that's on it currently.
Ossessionato
1964 GS 160 MK II, 1967 Vespa GT, 1968 SS180, 1964 Vespa GL, 1964 Vespa VBB, 2006 Buddy 125, 2013 BMW C650GT
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 2917
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:57 pm quote
No.1` Touring set up
Pinasco Nisil top end, ported and matched by HRS
High end bearings
Mer Eur Worb5 60mm crank modified by HRS
lightened flywheel
MMW clutch basket, Malossi springs, newfeld fiber plates
Profiled head
PEP 3 exhaust
EGT CHT Tach
fast flow tap
24/24 vortex...will be replacing with 30mm PHBH

Right now in 67 GT rat with SIP tubeless and BGN damper, will be going into 64 GL with
SIP speedo
PK fork
Grimeca full hydraulic front disc brake
Malossi RS 24 shocks
CS mounts

No 2 - Street bike in P200 frame (for now)

I stole this one, haven't opened it up but so far I know
Malossi 210
stock crank
PHBH 30mm side draft with reed induction
SIP speedo
fast flow tap
Shorter 4th
PSP 2000 expansion chamber
Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1895
Location: Seattle
Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:16 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
rob hodge wrote:
sorry i missed you at vegas- i was the one with the sitcker covered cowboy hat in the daytime and the Fez at night.

really, before you go shopping for parts and asking people what they have in their engines, i'd advise to take a step back and ask yourself:

"what do i want this bike to be? what will i use it for?"

there are many different ways to tune an engine, and while someone may have what they think is the most awesome motor ever, if they want to do track days and you want to commute to work you'll have far different versions of 'ideal'.

similarly, if you want to ride from Boston to LA your ideal 'fast bike' would be different than if you want to set bonnevile records.

I've probably built a hundred kitted engines, and while most of them can be grouped as building towards 4-5 different goals, each one has been different due to rider preference, budget, and the evolution of what is available. and with very few exceptions (most due to corners cut to save costs) every one of their owners have ended up extremely pleased with them, despite them being vastly different.
Aloha everyone! In Hawaii for a 10 day trip to see friends. Rob I saw you and your "I love Mormon pussy" sticker in Vegas. In fact the reason I'm asking the question is cause of yours and other peoples coupon for parts.

I have no idea what's in that kitted engine but I'll tear into it when I get back. When it was running it had the 24/24 carb with bigger jets and what looked to be a stock exhaust. It was nothing fancy and had no distinguishing marks. First gear was real quick and top speed was high 70s on the speedo which probably was 70 in real life.

Ideally, I'd like to make an engine that is pretty reliable, fast enough to give me a shit eating grin every time I ride it, survive a few rallys each year and the 2000 miles or so ill ride it around San Diego. I'm not worried about fuel consumption. I have another bike for touring.

I have a year to finish this project so as long as I stretch it out, I can spend whatever I want. I was just hoping to use the existing cases and the Malossi 210 kit that's on it currently.
honestly, sounds like you're almost there, already.

it might be worth tightening up the gear ratios, and going to either a SIP road or a full on pipe.

there's alot of really intriguing things DRT is doing with the individual gears, as well as the primaries on the PX gearbox. great connections between gears makes for a fun ride, especially on something as revvy as a Malossi 210.
Member
Vespa px210
Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Posts: 19
Location: Wales, UK
Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:54 am quote
New malossi p200 cases welded and ported by my self
Polini 220
60mm Bell crank
MB reed block with RD350 reeds
28mm keihin PWK carb
Mikuni fuel pump with adjustable fuel return
Long range tank
Banded clutch with malossi springs
T5 4th gear
Serie pro Cruciform
Lightend pk flywheel
Kytronic retard ignition
PM tunning exuast
Thumb choke fitted to cool engine on long runs
EGT, CHT and oxy sensor fitted to exuast
Hooked
86' Vespa PX 200, 59' Lambretta LD 150
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 108
Location: Brazil
Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:10 am quote
I would like to contact Hot Rod Al by e-mail. Anyone can help?
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:02 am quote
px200br wrote:
I would like to contact Hot Rod Al by e-mail. Anyone can help?
al@hotrodscooters.com
Addicted
63 Lambretta LI 125 series 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 816
Location: Tucson, AZ
Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:15 pm quote
SFvsr wrote:
scooterist wrote:
On my 79 P200E I have:

Malossi 210cc with new malossi head
26mm Del Orto(yeah, go ahead and say that is a 25.5mm.I don't care)
Simonini expansion chamber that I alternate with Sito plus
lighter flywheel from a PK80


On my 71 Sprint Veloce:

P200E engine kitted with a Malossi 210cc
Mazucheli crank
24 Del Orto
Simonini

Both fast but still scary rides over 60mph. I hardly want to go over 60mph. I enjoy the acceleration though...
Is this the list of the bikes you've blown up?
No.. These two set up haven't blown up yet(thanksfully). The one that blew up was the Pinasco 210. I also put a big whole in a piston on a P200 piston doing 65mph(GPS) in 110 degree heat. Otherwise, the kits are holding up well.
Enthusiast
LI's and a Jet
Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 76
Location: Petaluma, CA
Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:40 pm quote
Malcolm, you've got the 210 kit so you've got the start for it. Send your cases/carb/top end to al for porting and upgrading to the vortex buy a nice pipe and banded clutch and you'll be set for a nice fast bike. Maybe a taller 4th gear if you want a higher top speed too.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1895
Location: Seattle
Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:13 am quote
Derek M wrote:
Malcolm, you've got the 210 kit so you've got the start for it. Send your cases/carb/top end to al for porting and upgrading to the vortex buy a nice pipe and banded clutch and you'll be set for a nice fast bike. Maybe a taller 4th gear if you want a higher top speed too.
if you are running a malossi, the last thing you want to do is raise your top gear.

the 3rd-4th gear gap is already on the edge of too wide as it is, and with the revier kit you'll never get into the power band in 4th. it'll actually make it slower.
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