how to make a PX200 an off road machine
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180SS 1966 , VBC 150 Super 1969 , VBB 150 1965
Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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Location: Ra'anana, Tel Aviv, Israel
Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:35 am quote
hi there,
lately i am thinking about taking a PX200 and rebuild it from the beginning as a"motocross" as much as possible.
i have seen the Vespa Raid Maroco pictures and i got some ideas...

1) what kind of engine setup would you recommend me?

2) i want to build a handlebar like in the pictures, does any one have any idea how can i connect the gear and throttle handles?

thanks a lot...

12191496_935755926506809_1112517102141900184_n.jpg

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Last edited by lirandrob on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:39 am quote
For your engine setup you'll want to change out the exhaust to one that provides more clearance to the rear tire if you're going to do any riding in mud. I still have the burn mark on my arm from trying to clear mud from the rear wheel and exhaust many years ago. I had to clear it because the mud was grabbing the rear wheel, and burning out the clutch.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:12 pm quote
I believe SIP have the throttle & shift control shown in your pic. Agree w/ CR that your exhaust needs addressing. In thinking about a similar project I wound up with the idea of a L O N G header pipe under the bike to the far side, tight to the bottom & well away from back tire, then put your muffler where the spare usually goes. Never done it & dunno how that's gonna affect performance, but it would keep your muff off the rocks & out of the mud.

Maybe a bolt on bash plate if you wanna go where it's rocky. Here's one on my smallie:


Bash plate, 16 ga galvanized steel 3 times thicker than original floor.
1/4" x 1" reinforcing strips were epoxied on the top side under the rows of SS allen head bolts.
I also added 1/4" x 1" edge guards and large pop rivets thru the outer floor trim


Do it & post some action pics here, please Dirt bike Vespas
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180SS 1966 , VBC 150 Super 1969 , VBB 150 1965
Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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Location: Ra'anana, Tel Aviv, Israel
Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:22 am quote
T5bitza69 wrote:
https://www.beedspeed.com/chopper-straight-lambretta-vespa-chrome-built-p-5558.html?osCsid=prhcb03018de1rhe59uhgidgq5
Thanks.
It looks good, I need only the levers without the straight bar.
Do you know a kit?
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Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:57 am quote
Thats a cool scoot
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P200e
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Location: United States
Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:24 am quote
This is my first post here, hopefully it works. Having considered a similar conversion myself, I have learned a few things, but other questions remain unanswered. The gear changer you need to mount on motorcycle style handlebars I believe is this:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/gear+changer+mbd+motorbike_40802000

You can use a throttle control like this:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/quick+action+twistgrip+tomma_62010000

And brake master cylinder (for disc) like this:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/brake+master+cylinder+grimeca+_30060000

For what its worth, in seems that most vespas set up for off road use drum brakes on the front. I think for reliability, less susceptibility to mud and the fact that in loose conditions braking heavily on the front leads to a tendancy to loose control.

I picked up some tips and tricks from reading this thread on the German Scooter Forum. Particularily in regards to modifying a box exhaust so that it is primarily mounted in the batter/spare tire area (for ground clearance). I found that google translate allowed me to get the gist of things. You need to create an account and log in in order to see the pictures, but it is worth it:

http://www.germanscooterforum.de/topic/150968-rollercross/

What I haven't figured out is where to source the proper adaptor to use on the top of the steering column in order to mount the motorcycle style handlebars. Please update this forum as your project comes together.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:56 am quote
Looking into this myself in a small way. Thanks for the GSF link Johnji, quite interesting. They seem to be recommending 2.75-10 tyres from the little pee wee dirt bikes. A friend bought some from SIP (3.50's I think) and heard that they can hit the swingarm quite easily after warming up.

This is the sort of thing I'm thinking of using.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-Inch-2-75-10-4PLY-TYRE-TIRE-FOR-HOND-CRF50-XR50-TRAIL-DIRT-BIKES-MX-OFF-ROAD/271867671926?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117125611%26meid%3D60b05f1719124132a058eb3f9c1cc481%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D111741523268
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Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:14 am quote
Hiya Liran.

I think you may have started something here... Ginchi & I are trying to start a VespaCross circuit...so we will be watching this with interest.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:44 pm quote
The Vesperados seem to be into it in a big way. Check out their albums - http://galerie.vesperados.de/#home
Pretty sure we have some members here.

Clipboard01.jpg

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Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:29 pm quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Hiya Liran.

I think you may have started something here... Ginchi & I are trying to start a VespaCross circuit...so we will be watching this with interest.
Sounds like fun. I'd be into it too. Just need an old beater PX

vespa-partenza2.jpg

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Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:15 pm quote
Blank wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Hiya Liran.

I think you may have started something here... Ginchi & I are trying to start a VespaCross circuit...so we will be watching this with interest.
Sounds like fun. I'd be into it too. Just need an old beater PX
Do you have a paddock so we can make a track?
We may have some spare frames
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Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:29 pm quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Blank wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Hiya Liran.

I think you may have started something here... Ginchi & I are trying to start a VespaCross circuit...so we will be watching this with interest.
Sounds like fun. I'd be into it too. Just need an old beater PX
Do you have a paddock so we can make a track?
We may have some spare frames
I don't have a paddock- I live inner city. There is a big track nearby though.
http://www.mototrailsoz.com.au/motocross/track/ravenswood
The trials guys are pretty active up here too who would probably help us out too.
Theres a big motocross community up here. Paint the vespa orange and put KTM stickers on and you're in
I want to do a desert run sometime - up near Mungo or somewhere like that.
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Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:57 pm quote
Blank wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Blank wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Hiya Liran.

I think you may have started something here... Ginchi & I are trying to start a VespaCross circuit...so we will be watching this with interest.
Sounds like fun. I'd be into it too. Just need an old beater PX
Do you have a paddock so we can make a track?
We may have some spare frames
I don't have a paddock- I live inner city. There is a big track nearby though.
http://www.mototrailsoz.com.au/motocross/track/ravenswood
The trials guys are pretty active up here too who would probably help us out too.
Theres a big motocross community up here. Paint the vespa orange and put KTM stickers on and you're in
I want to do a desert run sometime - up near Mungo or somewhere like that.
Just made some calls, the track is only open for rides on 'club' days. You need to join the club to ride. There's one in Castlemaine and Maryborough though.
Or there's lots of State Forest around....
Ossessionato
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Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 am quote
One of the problems will be that we cannot register them, as they are writeoffs or bodges, so difficult to use anywhere besides private property.
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Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:08 am quote
Liran,

Not sure what motor, but guess a PX200, as its got more torque (150 is for revs) . The handlebars should be pretty simple to sort out, as early Vespa had this type of setup & modern LX etc also have that setup (under the plastic), so possibly that may work (they even appear to have the bolt to hold them on).
Im sure someone here will know if it fits.

BTW: I'll join you in building an off-roader...

image.jpeg
Pretty bodgy

image.jpeg
Motor required

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Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:29 pm quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
BTW: I'll join you in building an off-roader...
That looks like a good donor frame.
Searching for a PX project too.
got the desert: http://www.visitmungo.com.au/
I'm thinking Enduro style.

48f3d41d0e5a674a6a3f6632a0b9fda2156c9a95.jpg

5c3a2b10bea6ceb90fad074f6fb4996f.jpg

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Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:40 pm quote
I know where a few bodies are, incl some that can be regietered & some that cannot
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Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:21 pm quote
I very much like where this is heading
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Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:29 am quote
If anyone in Melbs is after a frame i'm on to a few options for under $500
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Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:36 am quote
For mud and dirt I would think you would want a lot of torque. I would talk to Hot Rod Al. I run one of his Alpha tuned P200 top ends. I can pull the front end up in second gear and it pulls hard in every gear.

http://www.hotrodscooters.com/
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:08 pm quote
Just sayin'

Storm troopers.jpg

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Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:29 pm quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
If anyone in Melbs is after a frame i'm on to a few options for under $500
Very interested. What are the options like??
Molto Verboso
Joined: 15 Nov 2008
Posts: 1895
Location: Seattle
Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:54 pm quote
one thing to point out-

i can say from experience that the bolt-on gear shifters are really poor and don't usually work that well. you are much, much better off fabricating your own.

i've done a few setups, back when i was involved with racing.

attached is some pictures of a set i had handy.

as you can see, this uses Lambretta parts, mostly series 2.

the fork clamp is a series 2 one that has been put in a lathe and had one side made flat, to bolt to the aluminum plates.

the bars were 15 degree bent ones... i believe off a BMW.

the shifter bits are series 2 lambretta, because they can take a standard, easy to find Vespa lever. the were turned shorter, then had bronze bushes installed inside them to make them fit on, and turn smoothly on the bars.

there was a stop brazed on the bars to keep the shifter in place o nthe end of the bars.

the shift rod has a bronze washer between the flat bit on the end and the end of the bars.

the shift rod rides i na steel tube that has been brazed into the bars at the end and also where it comes out of the bend of the bars.

the rod has been shortened and drilled to take a series 3 servetta - style aluminum shifter pulley held in place by a roll pin.

the cable stop plate is brazed on to the bars and is half of the bit from inside a 1965 VNB vespa.

the handlebar mounting bits were i think some sort of harley spacer or mounting something my father picked up we modified to work. i don't remember the details exactly on those.

beyond that, it's mostly off the shelf.

the kill and headlight hi-low switch is an old 60's British bike part.

the little mount next to the switch was for a bicycle computer for a speedometer.

magura master cylidner for the hydraulic brake, althoguh i had a cable perch on it at one time.

i think the throttle assembly is a tommaselli dirtbike one, and the headlight is a rubber worklight for an agricultural application that i put a smallframe bulb holder assembly into instead of the sealed beam floodlight it came with.

for what it's worth, ti worked very, very well. the shifter assembly was put together with grease about ten years ago and the weight of the lever rotates it down when the cables are unattached, even after all these years.

CAM00058.jpg

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Steeellaaa!!
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Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:44 pm quote
LML Star 200 off road. 4T but it looks the part.

3230716_c_b.jpg

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Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:44 am quote
This is going to be a fascinating thread Thanks
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Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:53 am quote
Thinking about shocks. What sort do you think will be best for off road conditions?
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:31 am quote
I had no idea that Apecross was a thing. If only they were readily available here is Australia!
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:52 am quote
Claude wrote:
LML Star 200 off road. 4T but it looks the part.
Is all that is required is a crash bar and it is an "off road" bike?
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:10 am quote
SFvsr wrote:
Claude wrote:
LML Star 200 off road. 4T but it looks the part.
Is all that is required is a crash bar and it is an "off road" bike?
I guess so. That front shock is pretty beefy. The rest?
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:15 am quote
My problem is getting 8" offroad tyres
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:37 am quote
Claude wrote:
SFvsr wrote:
Claude wrote:
LML Star 200 off road. 4T but it looks the part.
Is all that is required is a crash bar and it is an "off road" bike?
I guess so. That front shock is pretty beefy. The rest?
I reckon nobbly tires are a good start on the off road path.....
Shocks would be the next best step.
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:52 am quote
Blank wrote:
Claude wrote:
SFvsr wrote:
Claude wrote:
LML Star 200 off road. 4T but it looks the part.
Is all that is required is a crash bar and it is an "off road" bike?
I guess so. That front shock is pretty beefy. The rest?
I reckon nobbly tires are a good start on the off road path.....
Shocks would be the next best step.
Like I said It LOOKS the part. True, nobby tires should be a part of the kit. Maybe they're not being manufactured in India and imports would bring the bike beyond its price point? Just spitballing, I don't really know.
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:59 am quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
My problem is getting 8" offroad tyres
In OZ or the net?

How are these?

http://www.scootercatalog.com/tire149-37.html

Last edited by Claude on Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 am quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
My problem is getting 8" offroad tyres
Is that because you want to keep the LML pristine?
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:10 am quote
Claude wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
My problem is getting 8" offroad tyres
In OZ or the net? Yeah, I'm searching the net now. I don't see any. I'm thinking China may manufacture them for some weird tractor for rice fields or whatever. I'll look around.


http://www.scootercatalog.com/tire149-37.html
I think i found some
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:08 pm quote
I would recommend to raise the headset up about 3"-4" over stock height. When standing up on the floorboards you really have to hunch over to work the handlebar controls smoothly (gear shift/brake/clutch,switches).
Since you have a PX200, i'm guessing that you have a 20mm front fork and not the smaller 16mm. Everything is smaller on the 16mm fork, bearings, fork diameter, spindle diameter,ect. The 16mm fork bends easily.
Weld all the seams on the frame. Especially in the rear near the rear shock. If you don't, the spot welds WILL tear apart.
Gear down your EFL (non EFL will not be up for the task) transmission/primary/clutch as much as possible. A Polini 208 has massive amounts of torque at very low RPMs, it works incredible on very steep offroad hill climbs, sand, and other technical areas. If offroading a vespa, there really is no need to build a fast bike. Focus on 1st and 2nd gear torque performance at 2-3k RPMs, not 5k RPMs! No need to be going 50+mph over rocks.
I could go on and on, about other tips and tricks but my fingers would cramp up from typing. All of this is from 1st hand experience, NOT second hand.
The first thing to do ?...protect the selector box and kickstart shaft from rocks.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
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Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:33 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I would recommend to raise the headset up about 3"-4" over stock height. When standing up on the floorboards you really have to hunch over to work the handlebar controls smoothly (gear shift/brake/clutch,switches).
Since you have a PX200, i'm guessing that you have a 20mm front fork and not the smaller 16mm. Everything is smaller on the 16mm fork, bearings, fork diameter, spindle diameter,ect. The 16mm fork bends easily.
Weld all the seams on the frame. Especially in the rear near the rear shock. If you don't, the spot welds WILL tear apart.
Gear down your EFL (non EFL will not be up for the task) transmission/primary/clutch as much as possible. A Polini 208 has massive amounts of torque at very low RPMs, it works incredible on very steep offroad hill climbs, sand, and other technical areas. If offroading a vespa, there really is no need to build a fast bike. Focus on 1st and 2nd gear torque performance at 2-3k RPMs, not 5k RPMs! No need to be going 50+mph over rocks.
I could go on and on, about other tips and tricks but my fingers would cramp up from typing. All of this is from 1st hand experience, NOT second hand.
The first thing to do ?...protect the selector box and kickstart shaft from rocks.
Thanks for chiming in with this useful info. Sounds like you've been there alright.

How did you go about raising the headset? Also have you found ground clearance to be an issue?
Love to see any photos you have as well!
Hooked
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Location: Victoria
Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:53 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
I would recommend to raise the headset up about 3"-4" over stock height. When standing up on the floorboards you really have to hunch over to work the handlebar controls smoothly (gear shift/brake/clutch,switches).
Since you have a PX200, i'm guessing that you have a 20mm front fork and not the smaller 16mm. Everything is smaller on the 16mm fork, bearings, fork diameter, spindle diameter,ect. The 16mm fork bends easily.
Weld all the seams on the frame. Especially in the rear near the rear shock. If you don't, the spot welds WILL tear apart.
Gear down your EFL (non EFL will not be up for the task) transmission/primary/clutch as much as possible. A Polini 208 has massive amounts of torque at very low RPMs, it works incredible on very steep offroad hill climbs, sand, and other technical areas. If offroading a vespa, there really is no need to build a fast bike. Focus on 1st and 2nd gear torque performance at 2-3k RPMs, not 5k RPMs! No need to be going 50+mph over rocks.
I could go on and on, about other tips and tricks but my fingers would cramp up from typing. All of this is from 1st hand experience, NOT second hand.
The first thing to do ?...protect the selector box and kickstart shaft from rocks.
Thanks for chiming in with this useful info. Sounds like you've been there alright.

How did you go about raising the headset? Also have you found ground clearance to be an issue?
Love to see any photos you have as well!
really useful info!
I'd love to see how the bash plate for the selector box and kickstart shaft looks. I've been thinking about this myself.
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Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:58 pm quote
it is far easier to stand up while going over big bumps... but i think the floor would need serious strengthening to handle that without bending
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