Modern Vespa

Oh I do just without the semantics.

You see it's a bit like not being able to slag off your ex-wife because she was unfaithful.

She let you down and so you get divorced but you can't say anything bad about her because then you'd look ungrateful.

I've never said that all Vespa and Piaggio products are unreliable and overrated it's just the Vespa and Piaggio products that I've own have been unreliable and overrated so to avoid it happening again I won't own another one.

Sure I'll ride one because it won't be my liability but I won't own one.

I should remain forever grateful and never question the brands build quality or reliability ever again and in that way you'll all only have an echo chamber to listen to.

I know what I'm going to keep going to that restaurant where the service is crap and the food is cold.........

I did have a good meal there once though.

Bill x

This thread should be locked by the OP. It’s literally going nowhere and has now become combative.

SDG

Only because you poked me with a stick.

Everything I've said is based in fact and reasoning and I'm sorry if it doesn't agree with you David.

I'm just entitled to a response so I gave one.

Sorry.

Bill x

Why is there a problem with Bill stating his actual experience with whatever product he has experience with? Maybe it is seen as interfering with ones business model ?

I for one am grateful to read people’s actual experiences whether it be regarding a scooter a car or a refrigerator I’m thinking of purchasing so I can take in whatever info both good and bad and make an informed opinion.

Of course I’m smart enough to realize that people mostly report issues and if things are fine they see no need to start a thread about that.

To give proper credit pretty sure this fine fella brought the stick. We are entitled to nothing the way I understand life.

SDG

The issue, as I see it, is that Bil has written extensively of his experience with this line of products, here on this board. That experience has been overwhelmingly negative. So far, no issue: good, honest reviews.

But if he accepts a GTS from a dealership he is implicitly under pressure to represent that experience differently than he has previously done so here: "Accept a dealership's offer in south Denver to ship me a GTS to New Jersey, ride it to LA, say some nice things about the scooter and the dealership then get it shipped back."

If the purpose is to accurately review a Vespa GTS during a cross-country ironbuttish ride, the logical, and I'd say ethical, thing to do is to pay for that GTS out of pocket so that the rider is not beholden to the sponsor.

Otherwise, how will we know whether the rider really has had a come-to-Vespa moment on the road to Damascus or whether he just doesn't feel like being a prick to the hand that fed him?

And, again, it's not like he's cash strapped and make this trip without that dealer support, where-as these are hard times for Vespa dealers.

Who mentioned entitled? You.
If someone offers you something free you’re going to say no?

Are you saying because he told about a past bad experience he will be unable to post a positive one? Or are you saying he’s unworthy to post further experiences?

Just because Bill has posted about his prior problem Vespa/Piaggio experiences, I have no doubt he’ll be able to separate past experience from a 2019 experience. IOW, I have no doubt he’ll be happy to talk about the new ride in a positive light should his ride perform as advertised.

here's a cat shit sandwich. gratis.

No.... I just couldn’t take your lunch from you.

mmmm tasty.

If the deal goes through and it doesn't go well I'll say so.

If its trouble free I'll say so.

There's no point in buying it as I don't have a residence to register it to or insure it myself for that matter as mentioned previously.

The agreement is that I'll pay for all of the shipping ,breakdown cover and any workshop costs which seems fair.

Bill x

Bill did.

SDG

List
I have friends in Denver and much as I know it's not halfway geographically it feels like halfway to me.

As for throwing myself into things that's how I know that I'm still alive and even after contracting Leukemia this year then losing both my parents it's only made me want more.

In August last year I was nutting down a French highway around 2am and I hit the corpse of a dear doing 80 mph while trying to break my own mileage record.

Even though it shook me up and made me question what the hell I was trying to prove for those few seconds it made feel totally connected and fully aware of my own mortality and I loved it.

I wouldn't walk in front of a truck just to find out which way it turned out but banging in those miles all day and all night while attempting to avoid injury is for me quite addictive so lets do it again.

More coming.

David, I've always said that the best Vespa I've ever ridden was the one that you gave me to ride the 2012 Cannonball and I will always be heavily in your debt.

Your kindness and generosity knows no bounds and if it wasn't for you I probably wouldn't be doing any of this so Thank You.

However my experience with my own Vespas and Piaggios in the UK was pretty dire so much so my faith in the product and its ability to actually properly become so eroded just I had to walk away from it.

I just got tried of forgiving it because it was Italian.

I could list all of the failures here but there's not enough time and I've done it before.

Needless to say they all broke so often I turned to a product that did the opposite no matter what I did to it, which made me wonder - how does that happen ?

How can the Taiwanese make a product that's better built and more reliable than the Italian brands when the Italians have been making them for far longer?

Now, am I going to keep this experience to myself because I owe you ?

It would be like praising your ex wife for decades for sleeping around.

It's just what she does so I'll forgive her.

The thing that everyone seems to forget is that for much of the rally - at least 3/4s of it I was in agony due to a MRSA infection that had started in my left hand and by the time I ended up in San Diego ICU it was up to my elbow.

I was in there for 3 days and I think the bill was around $50,000.

Now I could have given up, parked it, told you where it was and flown home but no I carried on riding that fucker to the end of the rally because 1 To show my gratitude to you and 2 I'm not a quitter.

I should have stopped riding but no, you went the extra mile so I kept my head down and got on with the job.

Kudos goes to Scutrbrau for sorting out the shit at the San Diego end also.

So please don't ever suggest that I have a short memory, I'm ungrateful or for that matter I don't have the right to be critical of the product.

I think I've earned that privilege don't you ?

Over to you.

Debate about Quality:

I was so taken by MGB roadsters, I drove them for seven years. First a
used MGB and later a new MG Midget. Between the dated technology
(Throttle Linkage like a motorcycle), poor electrical system (use of to many different metals causing havoc in changing temperatures) and horrible
carburetors (That started on fire),the vehicle was a nightmare.

Despite this unreliability, I had to have one and felt like the coolest guy.
I finally found a mechanic to work on my MG who kept me on the road.

Now I drive all Honda cars and suvs. Nothing goes wrong.

Zoom to current times. I had to have the classic Vespa. Mine is newer,
I love it and have been lucky so far. Although, it shipped from the factory with the water pump gasket incorrectly installed. Over heated from the first day. This forum figured out the problem and I got it fixed under warranty.

Conclusion: I HAVE NOT LEARNED A THING! I still want style and will tolerate the unreliability. Note: My 2007 Suzuki Burgman 400 with 40k miles has never had anything go wrong with it. Just normal maintenance.

Rocket J Squirrel
Frost Bite FAlls MN

I think that you just summed it up Bob.

I'll tolerate the unreliability.

It's 2019 and you shouldn't have to but it's an element that the new buyer will accept or at least forgive.

One thing that I havn't mentioned is the purpose that I use my "bikes" for which is probably different to the average user.

That may have some bearing on my reasoning.

Bill x

Bill,

our interaction was lovely. I’m glad I was able to supply you with a trouble free bike. Hope that all of your miles from here on out are trouble free no matter what the marque.

SDG

Kudos to SDG for poking on this a little bit.

I for one, am sick and tired of Bill Dog bringing his negativity on the brand most of us love EVERY chance he gets. His experience differs from virtually everyone else posting here. We get it - Bill’s had shit experiences (well, except when he didn’t) with the brand. Fine. Make a great thread about it (or choose one of the dozens he’s already done) and then just link to it every time he feels the urge. I for one am tired of seeing it EVERY time there’s a remote chance of tying it to a current thread.

Just my 2 cents. Worth exactly what you paid for it, as usual.

This is precisely why I haven’t been around much. I’m going to try and be my helpful old self moving forward.

SDG

Off topic a bit, but I'm with you Bob on the MG disease. First car, rotted out MGB in high school. Who designs an oil filter housing to drain onto the distributor? Had to re-time the ignition, lying on the ground, in my suit, on the way to an interview when the distributor slipped. Overall, I owned 5 MGBs and an Austin-Healey Sprite. Hideously unreliable, but so good looking. Now, though, Toyota, Nissan, and Kia cages, and Japanese bikes and scooters, until the GTS. Quirky, but classic looking, and garners more favorable comments from bystanders than anything I've owned .

I don't open crash/death/helmet/Toreador Pants threads. Ya'll are forgetting one thing.
This is Bill's thread. Open at your own peril.

Oh yea, one more thing

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!......

It's OK, I don't mind as I get this - at every opportunity quite a lot.

It's not true but I can see how it can grate when my experience wasn't the same as yours.

I should remain forever grateful and doff my cap to those who have helped me forever towing the line never mentioning the uncomfortable truth.

It's OK, I get it.

Bill x

Wow!
You have to let go sometimes
Way to undermine your gratitude!

Ash x

It was just a matter of time.

Bill x

Hey,

I love it. You are the guy who throws a rock at the Bees nest.
I have always enjoyed the contribution of unique individuals.

Bob Copeland
Minnesota

Give me a while to formulate a good answer for that.

It could take a while.

What's that quote from Batman ?

Bill x

Agreed.

And there is a subtle difference between a gray cloud (ugh) and someone who throws rocks at bee's nests.

For me, I was always throwing apples...

So it sounds like things are settled or at least deescalated. Let's keep it that way.

Remember. If someone posts something here or on any thread that you don't like or rubs you the wrong way you are not required to respond and you certainly are under no obligation to continue to follow. Just scroll on by. It is good for the blood pressure.

Agreed and there is always the "Just Walk Away" button on the post reply page. Personal disagreements can always be carried on via PMs, emails, phone calls, and text. The rest of us really don't understand the background/context and frankly don't really care much. And the negative back-and-forth just poisons a thread that otherwise is really interesting and intriguing. It also turns off MV newcomers.

Thx Sticky.

Best
Miguel

A humble bow to you Sir. You said aloud what I was thinking.

I find it fascinating how various people find their voice for something they feel about.
Some more often, some less.

When I joined in a few years ago, Bill was a character with very few words - few, but often.
Now, lately we would say in Finland that he writes "like Runeberg". Our national poet, with extensive productions.

Rocks, apples - as long as we don't throw them to each others, they're fine.

Finished the ride yesterday. 3333 miles in 10 days from -

Hasbrouck Heights New Jersey, Winchester Virginia, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Columbia, Kansas City, Hays Missouri, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Albuquerque, Flagstaff, Barstow, Long Beach, San Pedro and finally Glendale LA.

Lucky with the weather as the East Coast, Texas and Phoenix all got hammered and I was lucky enough to encounter the edge of one shower.

I tried to ride between 300 to 500 a day which was comfortable and there were no mechanical issues.

Bill x

Hats off to you! Huzzah! What some of us dream of doing, you simply DO.

Remind me again, what was your mount? I've lost the bubble on that.

Again, congratulations.

A Triumph T120 Bonneville.

It gets shipped back to New Jersey fairly soon.

It only needed it's chain adjusted once and it's tyre pressures and oil checked daily.

Bill x

I was very pleased to hear that. Well done young man!

Thank you.

I'd start most days around 7am and be done by about 1pm, which even now feels like a half day.

I may have to quantify that. 300 miles is easy but 500 makes your ass and thighs ache a little and this will compound on your next days riding.

Taking a couple of days to relax on the west coast then flying home.

Bill x

Last edited by Bill Dog on Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Congrats! What is it about theses rides you enjoy so much? I have a friend who is on his return trip around the states. He started back in late spring and is now headed for Florida as he'll take a southern route back to California. He began with a northern route to visit family and friends and along the way detoured to retrace his grandfathers route when he came to America and made his way across the midwest singing in opera houses in the mid 1800's.

I'm not sure there's short answer to that question but I'll give it a go.

I like riding long distances and banging in mile after mile day after day is better than anything I know.

I'm also an awful tourist and pointing at history does nothing for me neither does laying on a beach.

Getting somewhere fast while seeing as much of the country as possible really motivates me as well as meeting new people in each new state.

Yes I have some friends to visit at either end of the country but watching the landscape change as I pile on the miles just does it for me.

Having the entire horizon as well as the road to myself never gets boring either.

I'll be back in December for something a bit more intense.

Bill x

I think that the best thing I saw was the meteorite crater just outside of Flagstaff and also the early morning rides into each respective desert but the saddest thing was a double fatal truck crash just outside Albuquerque.

I also counted 4 dead Elk on my side of the road a bit further down.

I met a trucker in Barstow who saw the same incident but he swears that he saw a huge dead wolf laying on the road in the same stretch.

He commented that Barstow had a large homeless population as they were being bussed of of LA and dumped there. I'm not sure how true that was.

I was planning to stay in Long Beach but I got a odd feeling about it so I pressed on for San Pedro.

Bill x

Yep, this is what I learned about myself on the Cannonball: the first 300 were consistently the best days of my life -- pure euphoric joy -- and the next 100 just pissed. me. off.

With a couple exceptions, but even then I kept thinking "man, I wish I'd hit this last 100 miles 200 miles ago when I wasn't too damn fried to really appreciate it."

Thanks for sharing. I kind of sensed that about you from your past PTW travel posts. I look forward to hearing about your December travel plans if you decide to share.

In December of this year a friend of mine and I are going to drive from Daytona Beach to Long Beach within 48 hours, a distance of 2500 miles.

It was supposed to be happening this October but an issue with my meds has made me push it back a bit.

No breaks and only stopping for fuel.

I may also being driving from Calais to Valencia in early October - 1100 miles in one hit as a warm up.

Bill x

That is intense. I couldn't do that. I am the type to stop and explore.

Don't blink you might miss your exit.