PX221 - too much crack
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Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Sun May 26, 2019 2:46 am quote
Been going so well I've not posted much about this. For a while I have noticed the silencer slip coupling is wearing thin on the exhaust. Tried several things but the pipe is just too old and probably 20,000 miles. Needs welding repair and a major de-coke.
Exhaust is a JL RZ mark I right hand, this is not ideally suited to this engine as it doesn't really have the expansion capacity for this MHR. They were never designed for much more than 20bhp 15 years ago.

So, new modern exhaust needed. What should I get? Keeping the spare wheel and the centre stand are non negotiable.
SIP performance 2.0 right hand, is top of my list.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+exhaust+sip+performance_22130ca
Scooter and Service Newline is second as long as I can make the stand fit.
https://www.scooter-and-service.de/shop/vespa-rennauspuff-

Anything else to consider? Anyone have Dyno charts?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1558
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun May 26, 2019 5:31 am quote
Have you checked Pipe Design??

www.pipedesign.de
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 443
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 26, 2019 5:58 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Been going so well I've not posted much about this. For a while I have noticed the silencer slip coupling is wearing thin on the exhaust. Tried several things but the pipe is just too old and probably 20,000 miles. Needs welding repair and a major de-coke.
Exhaust is a JL RZ mark I right hand, this is not ideally suited to this engine as it doesn't really have the expansion capacity for this MHR. They were never designed for much more than 20bhp 15 years ago.

So, new modern exhaust needed. What should I get? Keeping the spare wheel and the centre stand are non negotiable.
SIP performance 2.0 right hand, is top of my list.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+exhaust+sip+performance_22130ca
Scooter and Service Newline is second as long as I can make the stand fit.
https://www.scooter-and-service.de/shop/vespa-rennauspuff-

Anything else to consider? Anyone have Dyno charts?
No dyno charts or even opinion on pipes... except to mention that JL pipes can be bought directly. Good (better) prices and excellent company to deal with. Oliver Lomas went out of his way to help me...

25C6399A-1D9F-4F5B-B789-0D2DB905A93D.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7002
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun May 26, 2019 7:12 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Keeping the spare wheel and the centre stand are non negotiable.
MRP are now making a special plate to facilitate moving the centre stand forward to allow extra room for pipes. No drilling.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/main+stand+offset+mrp+for_22159636
SaFiS wrote:
Have you checked Pipe Design??

www.pipedesign.de
Yes P-D have a shit ton of dynos on their pipes, more MHR's than anything else. It's interesting reading even if you can't afford his quite steep prices.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Sun May 26, 2019 7:38 pm quote
That MRP plate sure opens up a few possibilities. I wouldn't know where to start looking for stuff like that. Definitely time for a fatter pipe and even the JL RZ interfered with the stand, so going to be an issue.

Know any more right hand exhausts? Pipe design don't seem to make any. And JL only make the one I have. Surprised the JL site doesn't have the SIP Performace 2.0 on it as JL are supposed to make it.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 966
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 26, 2019 7:44 pm quote
following!
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 443
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 26, 2019 11:34 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
That MRP plate sure opens up a few possibilities. I wouldn't know where to start looking for stuff like that. Definitely time for a fatter pipe and even the JL RZ interfered with the stand, so going to be an issue.

Know any more right hand exhausts? Pipe design don't seem to make any. And JL only make the one I have. Surprised the JL site doesn't have the SIP Performace 2.0 on it as JL are supposed to make it.
Try contacting them. Maybe you can still get it direct. I ordered direct as both SIP and SC were out of stock. Turned out well for me.
Lurker
Sprint
Joined: 27 May 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Wales
Mon May 27, 2019 2:17 am quote
Have a pipe design Cobra on my 230MHR, great performance but its a left hand pipe, so cant change the wheel without removing it and cant adjust the clutch cable due to its design. Thinking of getting a NSR PX 200 Mustang Right Hand Side from Nordspeed.
http://www.nordspeed-racing.de/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=33&category_id=12&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Mon May 27, 2019 3:07 am quote
Although more appropriate than my JL RZ, the Cobra didn't make the cut. Now I know its a pain for the day to day stuff, it may look pretty but its out.

Haven't found any data on the RH Mustang yet but I have a feeling it's lower peak rpm like the Cobra. If it is ok it would be top of the list. being cheaper and better looking.

The Nordspeed V5 hits the spot
http://www.nordspeed-racing.de/images/stories/leistungsdiagramme/nordspeed-racing_v5_41ps.jpg
but is left hand and possibly similar pain to the Cobra with the wheel and spare.
I would go left if I could keep the spare wheel. Any suggestions? looking for peak power at or over 8500 rpm
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7002
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon May 27, 2019 3:52 am quote
I had an old Scoot RS pipe on mine, which was left hander. I actually found it easier to change the rear wheel than any other pipe. First thing I did was slot the rear part of the bracket off the swing arm (something I do to every pipe I get my hands on).
When you need to change the tyre you tip the scooter over and unscrew the bolt on the bracket until it's just free of the captive nut. Next you simply swing the pipe down out of the way, pivoting at the connection just after the downpipe. Easy peasy.

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1627

Mon May 27, 2019 5:27 am quote
226 Vintage used to make a right hand pipe. I donít know what kind of tune their exhaust supports. The problem is that they quit making exhausts close to 10 years ago.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1558
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon May 27, 2019 5:27 am quote
I love the Cobra, but maybe it's not for you Jack...

BTW, it allows a spare wheel, works fine with the stand (needs the smaller double spring setup though) and drops in 2 minutes. With the tubeless rims, even before the Cobra, I never had to take out the wheel unless it was for something major (brake shoes, clutch plates, etc.). Oh, and so far, I never had a flat. Yes, I agree the clutch cable is a bit of a PITA (but even with a right hand exhaust it will be the same) but I am using Michael's method and so far it's been pretty easy...

https://scooterlab.uk/scooterist-tip-5-large-frame-vespa-clutch-cable-workshop/
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7002
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon May 27, 2019 6:31 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
https://scooterlab.uk/scooterist-tip-5-large-frame-vespa-clutch-cable-workshop/
Glad it's been useful! Do you strip the plastic off so it doesn't melt against the pipe?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Mon May 27, 2019 7:38 pm quote
Seems like there are 3 versions of the Cobra. The latest one is just in the rpm range. With the spare wheel fitting too, it's back on the list
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1558
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue May 28, 2019 6:44 am quote
Ginch wrote:
Do you strip the plastic off so it doesn't melt against the pipe?
Yes...
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 443
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Tue May 28, 2019 7:38 am quote
Ginch wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
https://scooterlab.uk/scooterist-tip-5-large-frame-vespa-clutch-cable-workshop/
Glad it's been useful! Do you strip the plastic off so it doesn't melt against the pipe?
Nice hack Ginch. And t-shirt!

Iíve seen it on here recently... I seem to recall it was on an Indo bike... Brother E?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5456
Location: Indo
Tue May 28, 2019 12:34 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
Ginch wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
https://scooterlab.uk/scooterist-tip-5-large-frame-vespa-clutch-cable-workshop/
Glad it's been useful! Do you strip the plastic off so it doesn't melt against the pipe?
Nice hack Ginch. And t-shirt!

Iíve seen it on here recently... I seem to recall it was on an Indo bike... Brother E?
yes, i did that too, the reason so that my back bone didnt stress to much when tightening the cable
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1134
Location: UK (South East)
Wed May 29, 2019 3:08 am quote
Jack, just came across the following in one of your Scooterotica posts:

"btw, Mine has a JL RZ rhs on too and have no plans to change it, ever!"

Jokes aside, I was using the thread to give me some more pointers for my MHR build. All good stuff.
Enthusiast
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 75

Wed May 29, 2019 6:13 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Still very happy with progress.

Set the jetting to hold the temperature down to about 280/300F at all points. This is rich but proves I have control of the temperature.
Now the fun begins.
Last few days I have been weakening the jetting to allow 320F at WOT. Together with adjusting the timing and Kytronic.

60 & B60 pilot, DQ262 atomiser, K93 needle @1.5 clip, 165 main jet

Seems to be settling down nicely. Will continue fiddling with the settings but very close now.

I did several videos but the wrong kind of sun is making too much glare for the speedo. Had to do 5 runs to get this one but I'm not complaining. This wasn't the quickest but the only one where the speedo can be read. Really is some scooter now. Great to ride.

Thanks for posting this!

Just want to double check, which carb did you use?

And a question after watching the video, when you roll off the throttle it seems to be smooth, the noise.

Iím getting a lot of machine gun noise when I come off the throttle, any ideas why?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Wed May 29, 2019 7:22 pm quote
swa45 wrote:
Jack, just came across the following in one of your Scooterotica posts:

"btw, Mine has a JL RZ rhs on too and have no plans to change it, ever!"

Jokes aside, I was using the thread to give me some more pointers for my MHR build. All good stuff.
Had to go and check, that post was 2014 Exhaust wasn't new then but had been on maybe a year at that point. Different crank, cylinder, head, flywheel now. With the old 210 it was great but on the MHR its out the game before the full rpm. Could be losing as much as 5bhp from the top.
All the new pipes I want are going to be months away. Out of stock or made to order. The old RZ will need a patch up to get through the Summer.
108 wrote:
Thanks for posting this!

Just want to double check, which carb did you use?

And a question after watching the video, when you roll off the throttle it seems to be smooth, the noise.

Iím getting a lot of machine gun noise when I come off the throttle, any ideas why?
Carb is Race polished Dellorto VHSH30CS. Although this one punches above its weight, it is a little small and all it's expensive parts are getting worn out. A whole new one would make more sense.

Have you got a thread for your carb issues? Do a sound recording of the noise and I'll see if I know what it is.
Enthusiast
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 75

Thu May 30, 2019 4:14 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Jack, just came across the following in one of your Scooterotica posts:

"btw, Mine has a JL RZ rhs on too and have no plans to change it, ever!"

Jokes aside, I was using the thread to give me some more pointers for my MHR build. All good stuff.
Had to go and check, that post was 2014 Exhaust wasn't new then but had been on maybe a year at that point. Different crank, cylinder, head, flywheel now. With the old 210 it was great but on the MHR its out the game before the full rpm. Could be losing as much as 5bhp from the top.
All the new pipes I want are going to be months away. Out of stock or made to order. The old RZ will need a patch up to get through the Summer.
108 wrote:
Thanks for posting this!

Just want to double check, which carb did you use?

And a question after watching the video, when you roll off the throttle it seems to be smooth, the noise.

Iím getting a lot of machine gun noise when I come off the throttle, any ideas why?
Carb is Race polished Dellorto VHSH30CS. Although this one punches above its weight, it is a little small and all it's expensive parts are getting worn out. A whole new one would make more sense.

Have you got a thread for your carb issues? Do a sound recording of the noise and I'll see if I know what it is.
You can see it here:

https://youtu.be/Fr4mSJp1t30
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:58 am quote
8th revision
Done some more dremel work on the MHR about a week ago. Gave it another 1 degree of blowdown. now it's all jetted, it's going great. Better as soon as I Rode off. Goes to 9000 rpm comfortably. Rest of the scooter is suffering. Exhaust crack is now big. Can still ride it but new one is really urgent. Still a month away though.
The new CR 80 plates have started slipping at high rpm in 4TH. Back shock feels bouncy. Another $50 order to SIP is needed. I think this revision is finally it though. The way the power comes on through the gears is like a bike. And top speed now ridiculous.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7002
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:18 pm quote
Sounds great Jack! So what are the full specs now (port timing, carb settings etc)?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1411
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:10 pm quote
Port timing is now 129 190 30.5 but my 15 year old design JL RZ is working beyond its rev range. Good for me as this means the new exhaust will improve performance even further. All the new pipes and boxes have much stronger diffuser sections and bigger volume expansion. Meaning they have way more effect when matched to the port timing. Looking forward to seeing that.

I'm going to need a bigger carb in the end. I have a VHSB38 available but will need to convert to reed to use it. Don't like reeds but going to be no choice.

For the record carb re jet ended up DQ261 atomiser K93 needle on clip 3 68 pilot B62 inner 60 slide 175 main jet
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3719
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:46 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Don't like reeds but going to be no choice.
I love the fatalism here. "What else can I do?"
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 966
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:55 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Don't like reeds but going to be no choice.
What about reeds you don't like? Curious what rotary provides that you like more? Not questioning it. Just trying to understand the differences and why some prefer one over the other.
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