The Elettrica has arrived in the US
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Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed May 29, 2019 8:47 pm quote
Confidence

Comparing the limits, we thought the same thing about the speed of computer processors. Yet the limits have been circumvented ... here it is the same but there is still no way. There is a time for everything ... the time will also come to make electric traction easy.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16943
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Wed May 29, 2019 10:04 pm quote
cuff
Electric Traction is easy.We've been making them since 1881 and Hybrid cars from 1901.

However mass produced efficient fully electric powered vehicles are still relatively new and so these early models aren't going to be perfect we we're still looking for the best way to do things.

It was more economic for Vespa to design a battery and motor into an existing body rather than design a entirely new model, especially when they couldn't predict how the public were going to respond.

BMW because they were already ahead with battery technology and have greater resources went full tilt and built a full sized maxi- scooter but I'm pretty sure they'll lose money on every one as it's volume will be lower.

I'm very interested in how different manufactures have tackled and resolved the issues of function against form.

Many of the motorcycles available are just a huge rectangular battery with a well thought out chassis but unless you hide the technology with a fairing or dress up the pack as something else it's difficult to improve its bulky looks.

Personally if I bought one I think I'd miss the sound.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed May 29, 2019 10:42 pm quote
Forgive me Bill... I didn't understand the "cuff"...
I agree on everything else.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16943
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Wed May 29, 2019 11:42 pm quote
Model
Cuff can be too things. Well actually three.

It can be a cuff around the head. Less impact than a punch but harder than a slap or

Used in the phrase "off the cuff" suggests that it, or it's delivery hasn't been prepared or thought about.

Or your cuff. The bit of your shirt that's just above your wrist.

Bill x
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 pm quote
Tic
Someone agreed with me.

Did anyone get that ?

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed May 29, 2019 11:54 pm quote
Re: Model
Bill Dog wrote:
Cuff can be too things. Well actually three.

It can be a cuff around the head. Less impact than a punch but harder than a slap or

Used in the phrase "off the cuff" suggests that it, or it's delivery hasn't been prepared or thought about.

Or your cuff. The bit of your shirt that's just above your wrist.

Bill x
Bill Dog wrote:
Someone agreed with me.

Did anyone get that ?

Bill x
Yes ... now i understand ... very tasty.
Thanks.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 5841
Location: New Zealand
Thu May 30, 2019 12:07 am quote
Tock
Bill Dog wrote:
Someone agreed with me.

Did anyone get that ?

Bill x
I'm putting it down to english as a second language.

Yes, you wouldn't pick the electra as anything different from a normal Vespa apart from the exhaust. I still think they should stuff the pet carrier with batteries, and give it ludicrous acceleration. 60kph would be nice too.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16943
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu May 30, 2019 12:25 am quote
Sup
But then you'd have a very fast but heavy scooter with no carrying space

Electrically powered vehicles produce serious amounts of torque so would it be too much for a 12 inch rear wheel/tyre to handle unless you dampen it's delivery.

This of course would negate the point of all those extra batteries.

Tesla's have a ludicrous mode where the car can out accelerate a muscle car but you can only use it a couple of times as it heats up the batteries somewhat.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu May 30, 2019 12:30 am quote
Re: Sup
Bill Dog wrote:
Tesla's have a ludicrous mode where the car can out accelerate a muscle car but you can only use it a couple of times as it heats up the batteries somewhat.

...it seems that every so often someone catches fire...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16943
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Thu May 30, 2019 3:39 pm quote
Progress
It's part of a plan.

Manufacturers will start with a base model and continue to build on that product, not crank out the very best at the start and work their way backwards.

Bigger, more powerful versions are on the way if this is a success.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1934
Location: Finland
Fri May 31, 2019 2:03 am quote
I haven't studied this, but as the car manufacturers in EU already have the "fleet view" into emissions, bike manufacturers may expect something similar to happen - I really have not followed the situation, so this is just my guess.

With cars, a manufacturer can play around with this a bit. You get compensated by manufacturing close to zero emission vehicles... like for one very low emission vehicle manufactured you can make two higher emission vehicles - it's a bit more complicated, but that's the idea.

So, even you'll sell these low emission vehicles less, you'll secure the overall business....and at the same time, get practice and brand name on low emission vehicle design.


The biggest bottleneck in electric vehicles technically and cost wise are still the batteries. Evertyhing else is quite trivial and tested technology... but those darn batteries don't have the mind to get better capacity/size factor nor the materials and manufacturing processes (including recycling) to get lest costly.

I've been following the battery price development now for some time already due to my work (industrial vehicles) and the promise is there, but the trend goes to the right direction annoyingly slowly.....recycling and use of second hand bateries will play a big role here: even if a Lithium derived battery holds too poorly charge to be usefull for a vehicle, it still offers plenty of usefull capacity for other purposes... once these scemes become more common, second hand batteries being available all the time more and more, there will finally be a new value component in the battery life cycle.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Fri May 31, 2019 8:51 am quote
Don't forget that lithium and other minerals needed to assemble accumulators (for many uses not only for transport) there is no infinite supply; extracting them also produces pollution. What do we do, do we pollute on the one hand not to pollute the other? There are also industrial vehicles, aircraft and ships that have very polluting engines, the solution must be sought globally. In Italy many years ago with a referendum we decided against the current nuclear type. Today there would be alternative solutions besides natural sources (photovoltaic and wind). Thorium reactors and the Chinese are perfecting fusion reactors, so satisfying the primary demand for energy, the pollution of the atmosphere begins to break down. At the same time it is necessary to stop soil and sea from getting dirty with plastics and more. The solution is not electric vehicles but our way of life. Excuse my sermons but we always turn away and instead the center of everything that happens is us ...
Banned
2007 LX50
Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
Location: DC
Fri May 31, 2019 10:01 am quote
tdrake wrote:
And $8,000 is chump change for many in Amsterdam or, say, Paris or Berlin...Tokyo...Seoul....
$8k is “chump change” for a lot of people. But for a scooter? What is your point? Nederlanders are not internationally known to be super wealthy. I believe you have them confused with those whom live in the UAE or Kuwait.

I have money too, doesn’t mean I’m willing to waste it by spending it on uselessness. That’s how people who have money come to not have it anymore. You will not see quicker adoption unless there are governmental incentives, The End. 31mph with that range and with that recharge time at that price, nope. Europeans expect more than that, especially out of their two wheeled vehicles. Slow doesn’t cut it over there.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Fri May 31, 2019 10:19 am quote
Soft
If the buyer is happy to pay the asking price who are we to tell them that they are wrong ?

It's subjective. If you like it enough and the you're happy with the price then it's yours.

No one is putting a gun to your head.

Remember this is relatively new technology for higher volume electric bikes and if demand outstrips supply the price may well remain higher than you'd like.

You can't really compare it to the petrol equivalent as that tech is well and truly sorted.

I doubt that Piaggio are thinking - We can charge the earth for this.

Give it time.

Bill x
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:01 am quote
Returning In Topic and abandoning the pure discourse of ecology ...
They had already tried it but then they gave up, and what about the Vespa 946? It wasn't electric but they looked towards elite buyers but it was too expensive. The electric Vespa is worse, compared to other same category vehicles that have more autonomy and cost less; the attractiveness of the name and design will not be enough to reward Piaggio who will stop making it.
Unfortunately, a technology is not like a ham that ages and tastes better ...
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 16943
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:34 am quote
Open
I don't agree.

I think that Vespa will have an advantage due to it's heritage plus of course it's iconic status.

Something the up and coming smaller volume manufacturers will have to get over.

People will always pay a little more for something they feel emotional about.

They are already the brand you think of so if you liked your LX here's an electric alternative.

Me, I think that they are going to sell really well.

Bill x
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 10847
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:01 pm quote
Bill Dog wrote:
They are already the brand you think of so if you liked your LX here's an electric alternative.
Well, I will give you that one. But that is exactly how I looked at this when I first heard the Elettrica was hitting the streets. I did like my previous LX. Would I like an EV that had comparable performance to an LX150, even if the range was a bit less? Yes, I thought. For around town riding it might well pull me away from my GTS, and I could feel environmentally self-righteous in the bargain. Then I looked at the actual price and specs. Twice the cost of a Vespa 150 and tops out at 29 mph. That is to say, the 50s run away from it. No, no, no. That was not going to work. I will just hold the thought until Piaggo takes another shot at this.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, S 150, GTS 250
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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Location: KS USA
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:06 pm quote
I think it is prettier than the 642. If I had loads of money I would buy serveral of them. They look, well, electric!
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:53 am quote
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Resident Grump
MAC motor 2WD. 30 Oct 2006
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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Location: MN
Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:55 am quote
Attila wrote:
YIKES! a bodge hoverboard. Just NO!
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Latina (Italy)
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1269
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:25 pm quote
Re: Soft
Bill Dog wrote:
If the buyer is happy to pay the asking price who are we to tell them that they are wrong ?

It's subjective. If you like it enough and the you're happy with the price then it's yours.

No one is putting a gun to your head.

Remember this is relatively new technology for higher volume electric bikes and if demand outstrips supply the price may well remain higher than you'd like.

You can't really compare it to the petrol equivalent as that tech is well and truly sorted.

I doubt that Piaggio are thinking - We can charge the earth for this.

Give it time.

Bill x
I am always reminded of the famous saying “Price is an issue in the absence of value” and the brand/marque holds an iconic charm which is timeless.
Hooked
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 201
Location: Irving, TX
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:22 pm quote
Vespa Dallas has already sold theirs. I didn't ask if they're getting more.
Ossessionato
Piaggio Fly 150
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Location: Sanibel Island
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:50 pm quote
The Vespa 946 was (is) overpriced for me, but there are folks on MV who have them. (And they are beautiful). I drive an MB that cost too much, but I loved it at first sight. And when I die they better damn sight bury me in it!
Rallies Europe 2016   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
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