Vintage vespa with sidecar
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Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:38 pm quote
Alright you guys - V oodoo and WDC get bonus genius points on that one.
Partly because I didn't post any damn pictures and you had to guess at half of what was going on - but also good sluething.

For the record, I was using a stock 6 spring clutch - the images of the Super Strong were from when I had it mounted - but pulled again as cover would not fit.

After reading your two orig posts, I went back to garage - and went step by step.
- Disconnected spark plug...
- Disconnected clutch cable completely - then tried to kick it over. Heavy slip.
- Took clutch cover off - then turned it over. Thwa Thwa Thwa Thwa Thwa. Full compression and engagement.

WDC - clutch arm appears to be pushing on pressure plate - but not at center as there was still some easy to move clutch arm travel. That was fooling me.

As the clutch cover is different then when I took it apart (trashed the one that had been on it trying to grind it) the new cover must just be a hair shallower.

Thanks for explanation on washers. I didn't realize they even came in different thicknesses. Guess my options are to get a thinner one - go single - or grind my single one thinner?

Thanks for jumping in!
-CM

*Edit - closer look at pics - center may just be pushing in pressure plate.

IMG_0548.JPG
Pulled cover and put grease on it to mark clutch with when re-inserted

IMG_0551.JPG
clutch that is in there now - with grease from cover being installed and torqued

IMG_0549.JPG
Some visible contact is occurring here. Unfortunately - there isn't much meat to be able to grind off. Better to go thin on washers with this cover.

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1648

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:59 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Alright you guys - V oodoo and WDC get bonus genius points on that one.
Partly because I didn't post any damn pictures and you had to guess at half of what was going on - but also good sluething.

For the record, I was using a stock 6 spring clutch - the images of the Super Strong were from when I had it mounted - but pulled again as cover would not fit.

After reading your two orig posts, I went back to garage - and went step by step.
- Disconnected spark plug...
- Disconnected clutch cable completely - then tried to kick it over. Heavy slip.
- Took clutch cover off - then turned it over. Thwa Thwa Thwa Thwa Thwa. Full compression and engagement.

WDC - clutch arm appears to be pushing on pressure plate - but not at center as there was still some easy to move clutch arm travel. That was fooling me.

As the clutch cover is different then when I took it apart (trashed the one that had been on it trying to grind it) the new cover must just be a hair shallower.

Thanks for explanation on washers. I didn't realize they even came in different thicknesses. Guess my options are to get a thinner one - go single - or grind my single one thinner?

Thanks for jumping in!
-CM

*Edit - closer look at pics - center may just be pushing in pressure plate.
It's easy to get fooled when the arm itself is puting pressure against the clutch. SIP made a few different thicknesses for getting the spacing just right (when using performance clutches).
Save your fingertips, and use the OEM spacer washer (you can also use a thinner SIP one as well. Your choice)...along with a cluch cover spacer. When i was dealing with this years ago, i did a combination of milling down the inside of the clutch cover, mill down the clutch arm, used a thinner SIP shim washer, and used a clutch spacer. The project was a LOT of installing and removing the clutch and cover...probably well over 20 times before i got it shimmed and milled up perfectly.

I have a few of those spacers in stock. Send me PM with where it needs to be shipped to.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:36 pm quote
Who Dat - Thank you for that kind offer.
That was a great call on the arm - didn't see it coming with the apparent easy first movement of the clutch arm. Totally left me scratching my head.

I have an S&S cover delivering tomorrow.
It may or may not have a deeper center depth - it is machined around the perimeter for the bigger clutch.

But I wanna first c how the bike is with old gearing - and bigger clutch has fewer teeth - so would be great to get it working as is with just a cover swap.

Lemme c if that solves the issue for me - and if not - I am all over one of your spares. Thanks!

-CM
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1648

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:36 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Who Dat - Thank you for that kind offer.
That was a great call on the arm - didn't see it coming with the apparent easy first movement of the clutch arm. Totally left me scratching my head.

I have an S&S cover delivering tomorrow.
It may or may not have a deeper center depth - it is machined around the perimeter for the bigger clutch.

But I wanna first c how the bike is with old gearing - and bigger clutch has fewer teeth - so would be great to get it working as is with just a cover swap.

Lemme c if that solves the issue for me - and if not - I am all over one of your spares. Thanks!

-CM
Well, let me know. It's all packaged up and ready to go (no charge). I need to run into town to the post office anyhow.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:34 pm quote
Can't turn that down!
Probably realize I need it - when I have it all torn down - and wish I had said yes.

So - Yes!

See PM.

Thanks brother - good of you.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:00 pm quote
For a while I've been going to make a test cover.... which would entail drilling a bunch of big holes in the cover so you can actually see wtf is going on under there, and measure the gap between pressure plate and brass thingy. Of course there are differences between covers so you'd need to translate the figures between the tester and the proper one, but that should be no big deal.

The spacer thickness seems to be 3.8mm most commonly if I recall, which could easily be thicker than 2 original ones as Terry suggests. Some of them come without a bevel on them. I think the bevel is there so it sits on the inner bearing race rather than the crank itself, but I'd be happy to be enlightened. I've seen some shattered in normal use, so perhaps the thick, mild steel ones have some ductility so don't need the bevel. Just thinking on the keyboard here...
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Location: california
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:27 pm quote
Yeah - this one had me fooled.
Could feel the light resistance for first 5 mm or so - and then full engagement as the brass touched the pressure plate.
Was miffed at how the clutch could be compressed - and didn't feel it at all when placing cover on - it was subtle - but it doesn't take much to get a small percentage of disengagement.
Meanwhile - discovered there are multiple thicknesses of the washer.
Covers look the same but have wild variation in depth.
Some clutches use crenelated nuts. Some don't.
Oh - and for reasons that are inexplicable to me - some pressure plates and clutches have a flat spot so the plate can't float and must rotate with clutch.

Since were are here - kinda curious:

Question - isn't part of the game to adjust the clutch so the brass is close to - but not pushed up against - the pressure plate?

Also - why do some clutches like the super strong have a flat on them? Is there any advantage?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:54 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Some clutches use crenelated nuts. Some don't.
Repeat after me: "I will never fit a castle nut on a clutch, ever. Amen".
Addicted
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Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:06 pm quote
Amen

IMG_0560.JPG

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:48 pm quote
Another reason for the thrust washer thickness to to align the clutch cog with the ring gear.

RIP castelated nuts.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:51 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Amen
He he!

...but... hold on to the tool, that ye may lead others on the Righteous Path.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:16 am quote
Arrived this morning.
All sorts of toys.
Included the Scooter and Service clutch cover.
Bolted it on.
No better than the prior one at center - so clutch is being disengaged when cover torqued.

Oh WDC... did you mention you have a spacer?

- CM

IMG_0563.JPG

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1648

Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Arrived this morning.
All sorts of toys.
Included the Scooter and Service clutch cover.
Bolted it on.
No better than the prior one at center - so clutch is being disengaged when cover torqued.

Oh WDC... did you mention you have a spacer?

- CM
The spacer is on its way. I dropped it off at the post office yesterday. It's supposed to arrive to you Thursday.

When i had clutch cover clearance issues, i bought a DRT clutch spacer from SIP. The DRT version is very thin, and is easy to bend. I ended up taking my DRT spacer to a local machine shop, and they water jetted a small handfull of them out for me. My version is little thicker, so they're a little bit more user friendly (it can still be bent easily, but not as bad as the DRT version).

Last edited by whodatschrome on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:57 am quote
This forum needs an awesome button.

2815.png

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
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Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:16 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
This forum needs an awesome button.
Speaking of that, what does the thumb up and thumb down buttons actually do?
Addicted
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:47 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
charlieman22 wrote:
This forum needs an awesome button.
Speaking of that, what does the thumb up and thumb down buttons actually do?
this gives the low down on avoiding your karma running over someones dogma.

FAQ: Post Ratings and Karma
Addicted
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:14 pm quote
Electronics
So - while I wait for the WDC custom clutch cover shim - again - tks WDC! - I decided to work on some stuff I could address while bike idled.
Namely - test some 12V AC LED.
There was some discussion here: http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2328223?highlight=#2328223 previously.

Bought a whack of different options in these AC LEDs - single and dual pole, red, white, etc.
I have a 12V system - no battery.
Points and condenser.

The side car has two running lights on it.
Once tail and one forward.
These tap in to power and ground from the elec. box on the motor.

So:

Put red LED one in tail running light on side car.
Wow. Bright! I like!
Put red brake light in scoot.
Wow! People will see me stopping. Looked great.

Reved engine - lights brightened a little - then started to dim - then... went out.
That's why they call it Research and Destroy.

Replaced LED's in scoot brake and sidecar running with old lights.
Works fine.

Looked at head light.
It's out now.
Hmmm - maybe bulb blew?
Used multimeter to check power. None.
Uh oh.

Opened elec box on motor.
Started and set idle up to about 2K to ensure I was making power (things flicker at idle...)

See below.
Did I torch something in my stator?
Yikes.

Note:
I am holding harness that goes to sidecar.
Yellow - feeds front light of side car (and I believe front light of bike).
Red - feeds tail
Gray - must be ground.


(Bike runs fine - other than the clutch slipping...)

elec box.jpg
did I fry my stator coils?
where does one start on something like this...?

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
charlieman22 wrote:
This forum needs an awesome button.
Speaking of that, what does the thumb up and thumb down buttons actually do?
this gives the low down on avoiding your karma running over someones dogma.

FAQ: Post Ratings and Karma
Great, thanks!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1648

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:52 pm quote
Re: Electronics
charlieman22 wrote:
So - while I wait for the WDC custom clutch cover shim - again - tks WDC! - I decided to work on some stuff I could address while bike idled.
Namely - test some 12V AC LED.
There was some discussion here: http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2328223?highlight=#2328223 previously.

Bought a whack of different options in these AC LEDs - single and dual pole, red, white, etc.
I have a 12V system - no battery.
Points and condenser.

The side car has two running lights on it.
Once tail and one forward.
These tap in to power and ground from the elec. box on the motor.

So:

Put red LED one in tail running light on side car.
Wow. Bright! I like!
Put red brake light in scoot.
Wow! People will see me stopping. Looked great.

Reved engine - lights brightened a little - then started to dim - then... went out.
That's why they call it Research and Destroy.

Replaced LED's in scoot brake and sidecar running with old lights.
Works fine.

Looked at head light.
It's out now.
Hmmm - maybe bulb blew?
Used multimeter to check power. None.
Uh oh.

Opened elec box on motor.
Started and set idle up to about 2K to ensure I was making power (things flicker at idle...)

See below.
Did I torch something in my stator?
Yikes.

Note:
I am holding harness that goes to sidecar.
Yellow - feeds front light of side car (and I believe front light of bike).
Red - feeds tail
Gray - must be ground.


(Bike runs fine - other than the clutch slipping...)
So you have 12ac lights then?...if so, a simple conversion would to wire in a AC to DC converter right before the head and tail/brake lights. Then there would be no screwing around with the stator wiring if that's the case. I did that to my non-battery 12VAC PK125XL recently. The LED housing that i used aesthetically looks like crap, but it functions amazing. I like the bright lights so i don't crash into a deer again. I live in a rural area, so i brake for deer about once a week if i'm on 2 wheels. If i'm in the truck, i speed up for them.
Addicted
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:07 pm quote
Quote:
I like the bright lights so i don't crash into a deer
Yes - agreed - crashing in to deer on two wheels is bad.
Quote:
So you have 12ac lights then?
Yes - I did anyway - until I tried these bulbs. Now - unless I am blowing the multimeter test - I am getting just a couple volts out of the lighting coils I think (enough to illuminate the rear lights - but not enough to power the headlight.
Quote:
a simple conversion would to wire in a AC to DC converter right before the head and tail/brake lights
Bought a couple of those - was going to try them if the AC LEDs didn't work.
Planned to just put them before the brake and headlights as you had - read your post - then plug in LED lights.

But my issue now is - I think i've lost most of my output power out of my stator light coils.

Scoot's tail and sidecar tail are illuminated and seem bright enough - but when I test - I am seeing just a couple of volts there.

Scoot's headlight is out completely.

Not my prettiest moment of restoration.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:01 pm quote
you sure you didn't just blow a fuse?
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:30 pm quote
Quote:
you sure you didn't just blow a fuse?
Thanks Swiss.
Not at all sure.
Miffed actually.
Am embarrassingly unaware if a fuse exists in the system - don't believe one does.

Read this treatise on stators: Fixing Stators 2: Electric Boogaloo
Not sure it advanced me.

Tested and re-tested the stator output at the junction box (see updated photo below).
Multi meter jumps all over the place - but if I am reading correctly - am getting 7-8 volts out of the HT coil red stator wire - and 7-8 volts on the green one to its right - thus the bike runs fine.

The low voltage (1-3 volts) on two of the two stator wires on left side of box is concerning. Believe those are my headlights (yellow double wire) and tail lights (blue).

Tail lights are working as per normal = decently.
Believe they are getting only 1-3 volts.
Headlight appears not to be getting enough power to come on.

elec box.jpg

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4828
Location: So Cal
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:57 pm quote
Quote:
where does one start on something like this...?
First, the chances that you ďfried a coilĒ are about zero, so donít start there.

A 12v test bulb is my go to for checking lighting (hat tip, blackbart). Much easier than fumbling with a multimeter and trying to guess whether the jumping voltage is going to light a bulb.
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Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:17 pm quote
Quote:
First, the chances that you ďfried a coilĒ are about zero, so donít start there.
How's that Greek coffee?!

That low voltage at the two left side of junction box stator wires is weird.
The blue one is making two 12 volt bulbs glow - my tail lights scoot and car are on .

I will disconnect the blue and start it in the morning to see if that kills the tail lights to confirm.

The 12v bulb for the headlight does not so much as glow - even when revved.
Horn button can't close the relay either - makes just the most subtle sound like its trying.

Pretty sure the yellow wires are the headlights.
Same double yellow wire from harness runs to handlebar switch.

Will run a few tests and c if I can find any other clues.
For now - seems like I am getting just a trickle of power out of two of the stator wires, and less then 12 volts out of the other two. Double check that in the am.

Tks.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1561
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:08 pm quote
Are you certain itís a 12V system?? It looks like a 6V balanced system to me. Check this thread of my friendís Veloce...

Sprint Veloce blowing bulbs
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:46 am quote
Quote:
Are you certain itís a 12V system?? It looks like a 6V balanced system to me. Check this thread of my friendís Veloce...
Safis - thanks. Great thread - hadn't come across this one yet.
Completely jealous of that clean job you did on junction box.
System looks pretty well identical to mine. I agree.
When I bought my bike - it came with a "rebuild" paper that showed what had been done - theoretically.
While there are omissions - if it says FAG bearning or Piaggio cyl - I have found it to truly have those parts.

Under the heading electrical, it said: "Up-graded to 12 volt system"
As it has 12V bulbs - until now - I took that to be accurate.
It also says "New Ignition Coils Set, Piaggio #5/156357"
Anyone have any clue what that part number is?

I have measured >12 volts regularly at junction box before now.
Same at headlight.

Few questions:
1. Did you take any volt readings or resistance readings at the junction box once you fixed everything?
2. To the crowd: anyone know what "New Ignition Coils Set, Piaggio #5/156357" part is?
3. I have not been blowing bulbs. I put some AC LED bulbs in - and they blew - but when I put my old ones back in - they worked. Headlight didn't. It is possible that I blew the headlight bulb - filaments look fine tho and I can not get any power readings at the headlight wires - used to get 12+ volts there.
4. I have a few small 12 Volt DC batteries. Could I undu my coil wire and power the bike (not running) safely and see if I am getting power everywhere? (without doing more harm?)

Headed to see if I can run a few more tests and identify any further info.
Welcome input on approach from all.
Thanks!
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:06 am quote
Alright sleuths,
This morning brought more weirdness - but more data.
Bike was a bear to start. Took repeated kicks and endless feathering of throttle and would barely stay alive.
Then - finally - started.


Once started - took RPM up over 2K and shot this vid.
Front light now works on high beam - no idea why.
Note - blue wire seen in last bit of clip is old speedo light wire - this has been disconnected since I had the bike - without issue.

Suspicion.
Wonder if "12V upgrade" and "New ignition coil set" = someone put P200 12V coils on my stator. Would be just the kind of "craftiness" I have seen elsewhere on the bike.

Next move - disconnect stator - use 12V battery - test all frame wiring - see if I can isolate the issue.

Feel free to weigh in with thoughts...
I'll be in the garage if you need me.

:-)
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:57 pm quote
Swung it out to the crowd here:

http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2330399#2330399

Some additional info learned by using a battery to test with - and pulling the stator. Have a look!
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:42 pm quote
Stator lighting coils appear DOA.
Looks like I just managed to get myself an electronic ignition.
Honest honey - it's only about another $50.

Meanwhile - look what arrived in the post.
Thanks Who Dat!

Doesn't look like I will be able to use the o ring?
Lemme know how you sealed.
Many thanks for all - class move.

-CM

IMG_0632.JPG
Custom made by WDC - water jet cut shim - in my mailbox t'day. :-)

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1648

Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:03 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Stator lighting coils appear DOA.
Looks like I just managed to get myself an electronic ignition.
Honest honey - it's only about another $50.

Meanwhile - look what arrived in the post.
Thanks Who Dat!

Doesn't look like I will be able to use the o ring?
Lemme know how you sealed.
Many thanks for all - class move.

-CM
When i first dealt with those spacers, i thought that exact same thing...how the heck is that O-ring supposed to seal up because it's spaced too far away from the engine case?

1st off, i ended up using a RTV (Honda Bond to be specific).
2- I kept the original O-ring in its place.
3- clean both the clutch cover and spacer really really well with lacquer thinner to remove all oil.
4- smear the sealer ON JUST JUST THE CLUTCH COVER, and/or the side of the spacer that faces the cltuch cover. (not on the cases just yet).
5- sandwich the spacer in between the cover and cases, and bolt everything together.
6- let it dry overnight, and unbolt the clutch cover from the case (it should be very easy to remove the cover from the case because you didn't put any sealer on the case itself). The spacer will be stuck to the clutch cover hopefully in a semi-semi-permanent way.
7- finally smear a coat of sealant on the other side of the clutch spacer and let it set up for a little bit...while that's happening, smear some grease on the engine case where the clutch cover get attatch. Bolt it down, but not too tight.

The thought is that the grease will keep the clutch spacer from sticking to the engine case (and the spacer will be stuck to the clutch cover). I've had my cover on and off multiple times, and haven't had any leaks to date.
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:19 pm quote
Who Dat.
Thanks a ton for setting me up with that.
Can't wait to install - as above.
Still a little curious if that BGM Superstrong will fit! It's pretty ginormous.
Guess we will find out.

Your a good man for going the extra mile on that one.
Thanks!

-CM
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Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:25 pm quote
Jetting for upgrades
Alright folks - now that I have a path to fitting my clutch...
What say you regarding jetting for upgrades?

Starting point:
Main stack AC 160/ BE3/ 100MJ
Idle jet 48/160

Upgrades:
1. Ever so slight cleaning up of carb box and inlet (hey - I had it on the bench and you guys know I like to use the dremel). Just removed a few edges.

2. SIP road II pipe

3. Polini Venturi

Assuming I was close before - it was running nicely - what values would you place against ea. of these if it was you?

Edit: SoCal gave me a sneaky list to start with - interested to draw on full group's experience views. Tks!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:53 pm quote
I have never got one of those clutch cover spacers to not leak oil.

Where did the cylinder packers end up?
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Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:42 am quote
"I have never got one of those clutch cover spacers to not leak oil.

Where did the cylinder packers end up?"

Left the packers as I found them and re-assembled.
Believe its .75 with the combined packer/aluminum gasket under the cyl.
then that wine cork of a 1mm head gasket on currently.

Polini 177 iron cyl, GS rings, and Melossi head sitting nicely on the shelf for later this summer.

Q's above on uppjetting: I've read the general 2-4 upsize rule for Road II. SoCal had given me some sage direction on that as well - star bigger, work your way down.

My question on upsizing for the components was a bit of fishing for insights on when you start combining performance upgrades. Wondered if there was some non-linear progressions I might hear about.

Re: clutch cover - not much choice... doesn't seem to be room for the clutch without it. Thing is larger then the table center piece at the palace - just needs some flowers.

Have an idea about using studs in case - and hard gasket sealer between spacer and case face. Who dat gave me his method as well. Will see how we go.
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Posts: 594
Location: california
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:34 pm quote
Fun weekend tinkering.
See: Stator experts - can you solve? ... SOLVED for some fairly spectacular bodgery - in the name of testing wiring issues.

Also installed the superstong clutch with Who Dat's spacer.
Thanks!

Cut a custom gasket for between spacer and engine case.
Used permitex #1 (dries hard) so spacer is basically bonded to engine case. Hot and dry here - so gasket material set up really quickly (excuse for not doing prettier job).

Chamfered the inside edge of spacer that mates with std o ring on the cover - so O ring is compressing/sealing as it normally would. This means I can service and remove cover - without messing with gasket sealer.

Results were good. No drips whatsoever - after 4-5 short by hard runs tweaking jetting. See pics below.

As for the clutch - WOW. feels great. 20 tooth version (thanks to Jon Gick/Aeropchip for their pioneering on this size and to the crowd for suggesting that model. Love.) is the ticket. Cruises in 3rd. Pulls in 4th. Feels great.

IMG_0642-1.JPG
Reason #11 you need a side car. Just pick it up and set it on jack stands - great access - no lift required!

IMG_0676.JPG
Don't look too closely - gasket sealer slop a lil ugly - but works a charm.

IMG_0682.JPG
Have run it in 4-5 times hard - good and hot - let sit. Not even a drop leaking.

IMG_0506.JPG
Little touch from Pheas' - with the grub allen head nuts replacing the 8mm. So much easier to tighten securely - less fumbling. Thanks Pheas! nice touch!

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:39 pm quote
If your cover O ring is gripping the spacer, thats an improvement on the ones I've used before. All that matters is the clutch works and doesn't leak. Oh, and you have lights again. Will be time for a new cylinder before long.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4828
Location: So Cal
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:43 am quote
Well done! Good to hear the BGM is working for you. What about the exhaust?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5456
Location: Indo
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:59 am quote
on to the road now Bro nice and smile
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:15 pm quote
Sounds like you're having a bunch of fun! Which leads me to ask - where does the electric conversion lie in all of this?
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 594
Location: california
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:02 pm quote
Quote:
Sounds like you're having a bunch of fun! Which leads me to ask - where does the electric conversion lie in all of this?
Hardly have a thing invested - no more than 5 orders (of significance) or about $250 take or give a little.

Elec motor still on the horizon.
But that's not happening this summer.
Gears are just too damn fun - give such good control of bike.

Closest thing to the elec motor I have come so far is my current external wiring harness - it's pretty spectacular.
Have it wrapped around the headset twice - 'cause I wanted a clean job with less slack.

It does appear I have a Polini cyl and Molossi head sitting on the shelf.
Travel has me in and out of town until mid Aug - so that project will hold - and I will keep tuning what I have until then.
Goes on mid Aug.

Speaking of which - Pipe is working great (thanks SoCal).
Upjetted from 105 and then worked down to 102.
Bike is still happiest with no carb box top.
(Read all sorts about people doing this/cutting heart shaped portion out of air filter - etc. Seems it is not only me that finds the carb is air restricted.)

Then put on the bell mouth. Took jetting up from 102 to 112.
Worked ok. Nothing spectacular.
Tried leaning - step at a time down to 108.
Worse top end speed by 108.
Kinda unimpressive.

Took it the other way to 115.
Felt about like 112.
Still some working to do on that one.
Welcome opinions.

IMG_0655.JPG
Closest i've gotten to an electric motor. CM external wiring harness for testing.

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