Getting an old Vespa (P200) back on the road
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Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 726
Location: california
Thu May 02, 2019 5:41 am quote
Fun one to follow.
Engine build was awesome.
Someone's gonna get a great scoot!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5495
Location: Indo
Thu May 02, 2019 5:04 pm quote
bravo, thats a excelent result Brother S.. now ride it and smile

cheer
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1198
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu May 02, 2019 6:56 pm quote
Just caught this thread and read it all! Great job on the engine rebuild and clean up of the bike! Looks like yours had much less rust than mine, but a bit of damage to the leg shield.

I'm excited to tackle mine now after reading this, but I've got a bit of rust sanding on mine to get to before I get a chance to do the engine rebuild.

Great stuff! Looking forward to the next one from you.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Fri May 03, 2019 7:40 am quote
Thank you guys! It's been fun working on it, and now I get to ride, ride, ride!

I thought I was getting a scooter that would be fairly easy to get back on the road. It wasn't that difficult when you take it step-by-step.

Now, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a box of parts to reassemble, as long as the price was right!

Thanks again everyone for your input. I couldn't have done it without all of you!
Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2018
Posts: 42

Fri May 03, 2019 10:01 am quote
That looks mint. Awesome work. Something about a white vespa and love P2s. They just look so useful! Enjoy riding it for awhile and thanks again for posting.
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Mon May 06, 2019 4:03 pm quote
Interesting thread, and very nice work!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Mon May 06, 2019 4:55 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
Interesting thread, and very nice work!
Thanks Jim - and Welcome to ModernVespa!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:02 pm quote
So I've been driving the scooter around town while I wait for the DMV to get the title to me. As soon as I see the title, it's up for sale.

Jack asked on another thread how it's been running. It's been running great. A little hesitant if I open it up before it's warmed up for 30 seconds. After that it is clean through all the gears. Idles great, runs great at WOT and just generally feels really good. I'm super pleased how the engine came out.

A 20/20 carb is installed - what came with it. I've set the jetting accordingly:

50-120 Idle Jet
120-BE4-116 Main Stack
B8ES plug - sea level

Here is a picture of the plug. It looks like I can go down a couple on the main. What do you all think?

20190613_134229.jpg

20190602_154640_resized.jpg
I'm going to pull the rack and box before I sell it. It's really handy for store runs though!

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:28 pm quote
It is not what I expected. Was thinking it would be the usual and be running lean.
You have some great alternative jetting going on there. I quite like that 120AC BE4 set up. I think all will be fine except the main jet. Not surprising it takes a while to get hot and is slower off the mark.

Plug should be a B7ES. This scooter is not getting hot enough for anything else.

Main jet should come down quite a way. Could go as much as 10 points. What jets do you have? Something like a 108 is where I would start.

Pilot jet 50/120 will work out ok. After changing the main, trim the mix screw and be sure its near 2.5 turns (Spaco) when done.

Don't do any prolonged WOT and ride around long enough to get some colour on a new plug. You'll see an improvement straight away but go easy until the plug can be checked again.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:14 pm quote
Excellent, thanks Jack! I'll change the jet straight away and the plug also. I'll report back on how it runs tomorrow. It's the original carb (not Spaco) so 1 5/8-3/4 turns out on the AF screw?!?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:44 pm quote
Yes. Older Dellorto carbs are 1.5 turns. Or within a 1/4 turn of there is good. Starting with the screw all the way out until you see smoke seems to make it easier.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:24 pm quote
How did this work out?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:34 am quote
Hey Jack - it worked out fantastic - thank you! I went down to a 109 main jet and put a new B8es plug in - it's all I had, and took a good run. The plug looked good. The scooter itself is running much, much better, as you could imagine. Much smoother through all the gears, and more power for sure.

I picked up a B7es plug and installed. I've only run it a couple time with this plug but am making a run today. I'll take a pic of the plug after todays run.

Thanks again Jack!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:44 pm quote
Here is the B7es plug after a pretty good run. What do y'all think?

20190624_122725_resized.jpg

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1855

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:37 pm quote
All of us think it’s way too lean.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:43 pm quote
Sounds like its running much better. Going about the same as the other with the 24 carb now?

Plug hasn't got enough colour to say. Could be slightly rich on the pilot. Will take a while to show. The nearer to correct they are the longer this takes.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:24 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Sounds like its running much better. Going about the same as the other with the 24 carb now?

Plug hasn't got enough colour to say. Could be slightly rich on the pilot. Will take a while to show. The nearer to correct they are the longer this takes.
Yes, it's running about the same as the stock P200 with the 24/24 carb. I was thinking the same thing about the plug. There's a little color starting. I'll take it easy and try to ride it as much as possible. Then check it again. I've got to order a few jets (110 to 114) so I can go up if needed...

Thanks Jack!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:26 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
All of us think it’s way too lean.
Thanks for the input Whodat. I've got to order some more jets! In the meantime, I'll take it easy.
Hooked
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 193
Location: pa
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:02 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Here is the B7es plug after a pretty good run. What do y'all think?
How long did you run that plug for? I have been having issues getting good chops on brand new plugs. it seems like it takes some miles to get some color.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:13 am quote
Deathshead wrote:
How long did you run that plug for? I have been having issues getting good chops on brand new plugs. it seems like it takes some miles to get some color.
Maybe 15 miles at the most. I'm going to run it for a while longer (taking it easy), then check it again. It turns out the jets I ordered are on backorder so I won't have them for a while....
Hooked
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 193
Location: pa
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:17 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Deathshead wrote:
How long did you run that plug for? I have been having issues getting good chops on brand new plugs. it seems like it takes some miles to get some color.
Maybe 15 miles at the most. I'm going to run it for a while longer (taking it easy), then check it again. It turns out the jets I ordered are on backorder so I won't have them for a while....
I hope you work it out. I just had a similar issue, I ended back up with a 120 main on my stella which just seems insane for a 150cc but runs really great with the mods I have.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:50 am quote
Deathshead wrote:
I hope you work it out. I just had a similar issue, I ended back up with a 120 main on my stella which just seems insane for a 150cc but runs really great with the mods I have.
Thanks DH! - I'll get it dialed in. Are you running a 20/20 or 24/24 carb? This is a 20/20.
Hooked
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 193
Location: pa
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:16 am quote
Hooked
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 193
Location: pa
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:16 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Deathshead wrote:
I hope you work it out. I just had a similar issue, I ended back up with a 120 main on my stella which just seems insane for a 150cc but runs really great with the mods I have.
Thanks DH! - I'll get it dialed in. Are you running a 20/20 or 24/24 carb? This is a 20/20.
Im currently running a 20/20 with just a sip road 2.0 early style non restricted px200 air filter and GGR Hot reeds with gutted middle cage bar.

55/160
160
BE3
120 main

This was the jetting recommended to me by "Bald John" who makes the reedkit and runs almost my identical setup. His jetting seems to be pretty famous on the p150 20/20 setup as you google "bald john jetting" you will see tons of people running it. Granted a 200 is going to be a a bit different.

Here is one of the jetting Databases from the old stellastats site.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k3Dof9LcAHrq9s0rX2yP6jIcw-hIFdTY85pwxJm8lpk/edit?usp=sharing
Banned
'01 ET4; '65 VBB Restomod with P200E engine, '67 VW Type 1, '80 Airstream
Joined: 05 Jun 2018
Posts: 289
Location: Cary, North Carolina
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:29 pm quote
I didnt see where you did the crankshaft, what tools did you use?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:03 am quote
Tradspa wrote:
I didnt see where you did the crankshaft, what tools did you use?
Hey Tradspa. The tool I used was this: http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/F-2306849

And it helped a lot to review this: http://www.scootermercato.com/Garage/Tech-Tips/Engine-Disassembly
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:44 am quote
Clutch cable
I totally blew it and spaced taking pictures of replacing the clutch cable, inner and outer.

The cable was right on the edge of adjustment and felt a bit spongy so I went ahead and replaced it. Drastic improvement! It feels so much better now!

And no pictures...
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:36 pm quote
Plug
I've had a few runs into town with this plug (B7es) and it's probably as dark as it's going to get. I'm thinking a hare on the lean side. What do you all think?

Thanks!

And Happy Independence Day!!!!

20190704_171431_resized.jpg
A Hare too lean?

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:26 pm quote
It's not lean. Insulator has good colour possibly too much. A chop from a 5 mile wot run would be a shade or two lighter but still ok. How does it feel? Any issues, even minor?
What pilot jet?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:44 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
It's not lean. Insulator has good colour possibly too much. A chop from a 5 mile wot run would be a shade or two lighter but still ok. How does it feel? Any issues, even minor?
What pilot jet?
The jets are:
50-120 Idle Jet
120-BE4-109 Main Stack
B7ES plug - sea level

It's running fantastic! As well or better than the P200 with the 24/24. If there is anything, it's a slight (very slight) four stroking around 1/8 to 1/4 throttle while just cruising. It feels totally negligible. I may play with mix screw a little and see if I can dial it in even further. But seriously, it feels fantastic.

I can only imagine what it'd feel like with a better exhaust.

I can't thank you enough Jack for your input on this. It's been a fun project. I'm excited to sell it and pass it on to someone that will appreciate it for what it is - a very cool old machine that is running the way it should. I've put about 150 miles on the engine at this point. Ruby (the P200 with the 24/24) has been relegated to the back of the garage until this baby sells.
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:34 am quote
[quote="qascooter"]
Jack221 wrote:
It's running fantastic! As well or better than the P200 with the 24/24. If there is anything, it's a slight (very slight) four stroking around 1/8 to 1/4 throttle while just cruising. It feels totally negligible. I may play with mix screw a little and see if I can dial it in even further. But seriously, it feels fantastic.
Help out a noob, what does "four stroking" mean?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:50 am quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
Help out a noob, what does "four stroking" mean?
Well, it's like a stumbling or a double rumble from the engine. The normal sound is doubled and you can feel the engine stutter a little. Lousy explanation, but I tried.

This is probably a better explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroking
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4903
Location: So Cal
Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:13 am quote
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:47 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Perfect, now I get it.

Thanks,
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:48 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
Help out a noob, what does "four stroking" mean?
Well, it's like a stumbling or a double rumble from the engine. The normal sound is doubled and you can feel the engine stutter a little. Lousy explanation, but I tried.

This is probably a better explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroking
The wiki link gave me the reasoning, the YouTube gave me the audio.

Thanks,
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:25 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Jack221 wrote:
It's not lean. Insulator has good colour possibly too much. A chop from a 5 mile wot run would be a shade or two lighter but still ok. How does it feel? Any issues, even minor?
What pilot jet?
The jets are:
50-120 Idle Jet
120-BE4-109 Main Stack
B7ES plug - sea level

It's running fantastic! As well or better than the P200 with the 24/24. If there is anything, it's a slight (very slight) four stroking around 1/8 to 1/4 throttle while just cruising. It feels totally negligible. I may play with mix screw a little and see if I can dial it in even further. But seriously, it feels fantastic.

I can only imagine what it'd feel like with a better exhaust.

I can't thank you enough Jack for your input on this. It's been a fun project. I'm excited to sell it and pass it on to someone that will appreciate it for what it is - a very cool old machine that is running the way it should. I've put about 150 miles on the engine at this point. Ruby (the P200 with the 24/24) has been relegated to the back of the garage until this baby sells.
Good to here it's going well. Unfortunate you can't keep this one too but the new owner will get a great scooter.
The issue at 1/8 is the main jet transition. The mixture screw will have no affect on this. Often it's really hard to tell if the four stroking is rich or lean. They both act almost the same. One easy way is whether it gets better or worse when fully hot after 30 minutes cruising. If it gets better then it's a too rich issue, if worse when hot, then too lean. Changing the main jet a few points up or down will fix it but I suspect this it a little over at the moment.
Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 590
Location: Fresno, CA
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am quote
I’ve been following this thread from the beginning so since I’m vacationing in Oregon this week I visited qascooter yesterday. We worked on his B62 project and “Talked Vespa” but while I was there I took this white P200 for a run

WOW! This project really came out nicely. Surprising power through all the gears, smooth ride, tight shifting, strong clutch. That porting that qascooter did really makes a difference. I was impressed

UNSOLICITED TESTIMONIAL:
Whoever buys this is going to get a sweet ride at a very good price. In fact I thought about buying it myself and shipping it to Fresno but that idea got stopped at “Honey, guess what!” A lot of my good ideas get stopped at “Honey, guess what!”
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:08 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Good to here it's going well. Unfortunate you can't keep this one too but the new owner will get a great scooter.
The issue at 1/8 is the main jet transition. The mixture screw will have no affect on this. Often it's really hard to tell if the four stroking is rich or lean. They both act almost the same. One easy way is whether it gets better or worse when fully hot after 30 minutes cruising. If it gets better then it's a too rich issue, if worse when hot, then too lean. Changing the main jet a few points up or down will fix it but I suspect this it a little over at the moment.
Good to know Jack. Thanks! I'll use this to dial it in further.

So check this out - My friend Luckybear came up to visit and took the WhiteP for a spin. He's got a P200 with a 20/20 carb also. He thought the WhiteP had a 24/24 on it cause it ran so good!

I'm glad I had the huevos to mildly port it per your instruction. I'm surprised and very pleased the slight porting change has gained noticeable power throughout the power band, and made this into a very cool scooter!
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 726
Location: california
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:18 am quote
Quote:
They both act almost the same. One easy way is whether it gets better or worse when fully hot after 30 minutes cruising.
Great tip. Have struggled with that one.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:11 am quote
qascooter wrote:
I'm glad I had the huevos to mildly port it per your instruction. I'm surprised and very pleased the slight porting change has gained noticeable power throughout the power band, and made this into a very cool scooter!
You did all the work

Slight adjustment of main jet and thats it done. Ready for someone to enjoy.

I think one day you will do a full O tune. Double stock power and using only modified original parts. Amazing.
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