62 Allstate Cruisaire - getting it back on the road
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Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4906
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:55 pm quote
Vader would be proud.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:50 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Dude - it is gonna stop 10' shorter. Gonna look like it did leaving the factory.
Thanks CM - It'll never look that good, but it'll be on the road again. And at 56, it'll be looking sexy as ever, scars and all....
SoCalGuy wrote:
Vader would be proud.
THAT is the biggest compliment I think I've ever got! Damn. Thank you SCG! It's so strange because while I'm cleaning it, I was thinking, Naah, it wouldn't pass the Vader test, but it's pretty good.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5497
Location: Indo
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:55 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Vader would be proud.
he will, i am sure
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:09 pm quote
Paint
I'm so stoked! I painted the inside of the glovebox cowl, the rims, and the hubs, and the gas tank (below the rim). The new gravity fed paint sprayer was a dream to use. Super easy, with some basic understanding and focused attention.

I watched a bunch of youtube vids (Eastwood company series was the best), then carved out a block of time this morning and went for it. I spent more time figuring the exact amount of hardener to add in and cleanup than the actual paint time.

Ron mixed up about 3/4 of a pint - about 12 ozs. I filled the little cup up (4 oz) of paint and added the hardener. Stirred it up, waited a few, stirred it up again, adjusted the gun and went for it. I only used two ounces of paint! So I practiced with a bunch of different settings for different scenarios. I even painted the fuel tank - where it sat - there is so little overspray!

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What it was initially

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I just painted the inside

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Everything painted, waiting to dry

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With the leftover paint I was looking or things to paint. I did that cast hound dog back in 74, in 7th grade.

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The tank painted, just the underside.

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4906
Location: So Cal
Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:39 am quote
Very respectable job for your first go, qa!

Painting is super satisfying work. Now that youíve done it, it will become addicting. Always surprising how little paint is actually needed and how fast the painting goes compared to the prep.

The inside of the cowl is one of the more difficult parts to paint well because the concave surface makes it hard to keep the spray parallel to the surface. Youíll get better and better with practice. Little tip: donít be afraid to lay on slightly wetter final coats... the trick is to apply enough to flow but not run. Itís an art, looks like youíve got the touch. Keep at it!
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:04 am quote
Looks great! Prep sucks, but painting is fun!
Hooked
59" Allstate
Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 189
Location: TC Florida
Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:22 am quote
qascooter:

Great job, what you did looks great. Next time you mix paint do so in a separate container not in the gun cup. With a gravity gun its nearly impossible to get the paint, activator and reducer mixed % 100 due to the design of the gun.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:56 am quote
Thanks guys! I appreciate the encouragement and the tips. I literally practiced for 15 minutes with the gun before paint was mixed on how to spray the inside of that cowl.

And next time I'll mix the hardener and paint in a separate container, not the gun feed. It was a pain to stir so I let it sit for a few minutes, then stirred again, then sit, then stir....

I can't wait to put the side cowl and wheels back on!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:35 pm quote
Watching the paint dry
While I'm waiting for the paint to dry, I figured I'd clean up the front brakes and hub.

I'm going to replace it at some point so I just want it clean and operational until I figure out what I'm going to do with it.

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Rough sanded the inside of the drum

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The axle removed showing the brakes and grime.

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A different angle with the brakes removed.

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All cleaned up and shoes remounted. It was dirtier than it looks.

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Newly painted hub ready for the rim and tire.

Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1166
Location: Siam
Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:30 am quote
I like the idea that you protected and painted the inside surfaces, but left the outside surfaces original paint. Very cool.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7413
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:57 am quote
That paint is looking good! Mechanic, welder, painter... what's next?

Oh yeah, almost forgot foundryman. Nice doggy!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:51 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
I like the idea that you protected and painted the inside surfaces, but left the outside surfaces original paint. Very cool.
Thanks Nomad! It came out pretty sweet. I figured the front end and rims weren't bad to paint, but the inside cowl did need some help (which Voodoo pointed out), so I figured, I might as well.

And Voodoo, you crack me up! You are the jack of all trades and all things Vespa, and 3d printing, and foundry work, and welding, and, and....

Seriously though, I was thinking, I'm not a mechanic by trade, but I have rebuilt quite a few engines in my lifetime! And it's always good to learn something new. Thanks for the encouragement!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:21 pm quote
What's Next?
Well, now that the paint dried I went ahead and reinstalled the left cowl glovebox, the gas tank, the new rubber air boot (it was a bitch to get over the carb box), and the tires. She's ready to roll - woohooo!

But wait! I needed to put the headlight in so I started to just slap it in and realized that I should have a look around in there while I had the headset off.

I think one of the shift cables is original! It has a touch of blue paint on it. So what I think I'm going to do next before I go ripping around at lightning speed on this baby, I'll change out all the cables (inners and outers) and clean up whatever I come across that needs cleaning.

Oh, and put in the new speedometer I got from India

I still plan on swapping out the hub for a Vespa hub and adding a shock mount to the fork. And I'll want to do something to the engine. I'm thinking 4 speed, geared accordingly for 8", 177 kit, Road exhaust cut and shortened to fit under those 8" tires. Maybe find a trashed P200 and build an engine for it.

I wanted to go for a little ride before I get busy on the cables, but it's raining today, so the glamor photos will have to wait!

So that's the plan - I'm going to be curious to see how much I deviate from it!

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There is a touch of blue paint on the cable end. 56 years old!

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Jeeze, this baby needs some grease!

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It's looking dry. I'm debating about taking the tubes apart and cleaning and lubing them up. Yeah, probably will.

Hooked
58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 177
Location: Long Beach, CA
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:52 pm quote
I've always liked those split steel headsets. Grease those tubes up good! Give em a real good clean, and polish the 'bearing' surfaces so they turn easily, add a good amount of grease but not excessive. Looking good!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:00 pm quote
Painting
I bought a paint sprayer to spray the rims and inside cowl, and use it for whatever needs painting. I'm so glad I did. It was a treat to use. I've painted houses using house sprayers but this was all new, so essentially a nooby.

You can dial in just the right amount of paint and the right amount of surface coverage pretty easily on a big chunk of cardboard. And it is quick and efficient, with very little overspray.

I painted the inside of our patio cover with the large gun (1.4 tip) and the Vespa with the small gun (.8 tip). Amazing the 1.4 did a great job on the patio cover. Fun to dial in to get just the flow you need to lay down the paint.

This is the kit I got:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046RDW3K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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The kit - I cut out the plastic that holds the guns because it doesn't account for the pressure gauges. The case probably won't last long though - kinda cheesy.

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Closeup of the guns

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The case with everything inside.

Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:32 pm quote
Wow. Thanks for this! I kept meaning to ask you what spray gun you were using cause I need one for my project. Thats pretty affordable! What compressor are you using? I have one of those cheapo harbor freight central pneumatic 8 or 10 gal compressors. I forget which one. It doesn't like constant flow tools so much, but should be fine for smaller parts and quick coverage, just not a whole car body at once! Also been meaning to buy another tank to add to it just to get more capacity between charges for something like painting.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1580
Location: London UK
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:40 pm quote
Re: What's Next?
qascooter wrote:
I still plan on swapping out the hub for a Vespa hub and adding a shock mount to the fork. And I'll want to do something to the engine. I'm thinking 4 speed, geared accordingly for 8", 177 kit, Road exhaust cut and shortened to fit under those 8" tires. Maybe find a trashed P200 and build an engine for it.
What's wrong with the engine in it? Could make a good job of tuning that, even if its 3 speed. Nice wide powerband. If it is or can be made into 3 port there is no reason not to keep the original motor.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:21 pm quote
Re: What's Next?
Jack221 wrote:
What's wrong with the engine in it? Could make a good job of tuning that, even if its 3 speed. Nice wide powerband. If it is or can be made into 3 port there is no reason not to keep the original motor.
Good to know. When I get to that point, I'll reach out on what's possible. Thanks!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:28 pm quote
Glamour shoot
A few pics in the front yard today, before I replace the cables and clean up the headset, shift and throttle tubes.

I flipped the license plate mount - Credit to Voodoo. Shows off more of that sexy round back end.

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Hello Beautiful B62

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Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P200E, 1965 Allstate
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 64
Location: Claremont, CA
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:43 am quote
Beautiful! Here's my '65. Since that photo I've replaced the front fork with a VBB fork and BGM dampener, and rebuilt the engine with a Pinasco 177. So fun to ride. It's like a sports car versus my P200 Caddy.

Allstate2.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:00 am quote
memtnbike wrote:
Beautiful! Here's my '65. Since that photo I've replaced the front fork with a VBB fork and BGM dampener, and rebuilt the engine with a Pinasco 177. So fun to ride. It's like a sports car versus my P200 Caddy.
Gorgeous! The B62 is pretty much stock at the moment, but I plan on doing something similar as you. Thanks for posting the picture!
Ossessionato
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 3335
Location: pacifica,ca.
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:08 am quote
great job. looks fab
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:15 pm quote
vespa auntie wrote:
great job. looks fab
Thank you Auntie!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:31 pm quote
Progress - and welding!!!
I've been working slowly on replacing cables and removed the headset. Then a few other things presented themselves and I've put the cables on the backburner.

I need to fix the tear in the legshield before getting new trim, and I need to straighten out the groove for the trim. I also need to straighten the floor runners in preparation for new rubber. And of course that leads to cleaning up the rust under the runners and touch up painting those areas, as well as the legshield.

So I called Voodoo and used his magical knowledge, then got busy today

1) First up, make a edge crimp tool.
2) Next, practice welding on some very thin metal before trying it on the legshield.
3) Weld legshield
4) Then remove the floor runners and straighten. Also straighten pan and clean up any rust in prep for paint.
5) Touch up paint the rusty areas and the welded area
6) Install new legshield trim and floor runners.

I made it through step 3!!!! Wooohooo! I practiced a lot and dialed that wire feeder in to where I felt comfortable doing the job.

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First up, make a tool to straighten out the legshield and floor trim.

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After the hack weld job, the tool was a fantastic success and a great addition to the toolbox of specialty tools

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What to do with the tear....

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Clean it up and get ready to weld it.

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First practice, practice, practice. It was iffy for a while, then I put more light on the subject and found the right speed for the wire feed.

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Check it out! I didn't burn through the legshield!

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Cleaned it up and welded again

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Ready to sand and paint. The crack is no more! The flex is gone. Phew....

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:38 pm quote
I forgot to post pictures of the headset! I need to make a new bushing for the shifter side and clean everything up. It all feels gummy like 56 year old grease. Hey, I resemble that remark! Ha!

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Oh no - where'd my steering apparatus go?

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There it is. Lots of cleanup to do with this before reinstalling. I mean lots...

Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 728
Location: california
Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:38 pm quote
Standing O on the welding fix.
-home made tools is one of the reasons I got so hooked. Ugly? Beauty is in the eye(s) of... the hot chick! Or what ever the saying is.
- sheet metal welding? Look at u! Now I'm gonna have to get a spray gun.

Some well earned extra joy is gonna be felt driving that one around town with its sexy tail and the depth of restore work.

Love it.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:27 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Standing O on the welding fix.
Thanks CM - I almost didn't go for the legshield. The practice on something much more flimsy helped to the point where it was now or never. I'm happy it turned out as well as it did. I gave it the flex test and it's one piece again.

Now to remove the floor rails and clean, clean, clean. Then touch up paint.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4906
Location: So Cal
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:37 am quote
Nice job on the leg shield tool. What diameter bits did you use to put it together? Thinking of making one myself...
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:10 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Nice job on the leg shield tool. What diameter bits did you use to put it together? Thinking of making one myself...
Thanks SoCalGuy! I used a 3/8" steel rod and a short length of pipe from the plumbing section. I believe 3/4" with 5/8" inside diameter. The outside is .81 according to the calipers but the threads were tapered on the pipe piece I bought.

I made the steel rod a little bent and a little long (~2 1/2") and the curve is about a third of the pipe and a bit shy of 2". I just eyeballed it all then fit the outside edge of the curved pipe right up against the flat part of the legshield.

Now, credit must be given to the Magical Voodoo for his design for this crimping tool. And it works fantastic. I like the way I can kind of roll the edge inwards and it smooths out the edges quite nice. Here is a pic of the tool maker Voodoo's..

His weld is so nice - a big ole blob. I love it. I KNOW I could do a better job of it after practicing for that legshield. Probably about 95% better.

IMG_20190728_172649698.jpg

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:56 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Nice job on the leg shield tool. What diameter bits did you use to put it together? Thinking of making one myself...
Thanks SoCalGuy! I used a 3/8" steel rod and a short length of pipe from the plumbing section. I believe 3/4" with 5/8" inside diameter. The outside is .81 according to the calipers but the threads were tapered on the pipe piece I bought.

I made the steel rod a little bent and a little long (~2 1/2") and the curve is about a third of the pipe and a bit shy of 2". I just eyeballed it all then fit the outside edge of the curved pipe right up against the flat part of the legshield.

Now, credit must be given to the Magical Voodoo for his design for this crimping tool. And it works fantastic. I like the way I can kind of roll the edge inwards and it smooths out the edges quite nice. Here is a pic of the tool maker Voodoo's..

His weld is so nice - a big ole blob. I love it. I KNOW I could do a better job of it after practicing for that legshield. Probably about 95% better.
I'll be needing to do something like that for mine too. When crimping, how tight do you squeeze, and down you crip down and drag the tool towards the edge, or just crimp.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7413
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:16 pm quote
You gradually increase the pressure until it's dragging hard on the sheetmetal, then you can begin to roll form the metal. The inner 'die' is too small to form the inside radius in the sheet metal and just squeezing hard to size doesn't work in such a short section, the metal just springs back. It takes a while to get the knack but works well when you do.

To use for adjusting/tightening the aluminum trim, just back off the screw and use cloth or leather against the appearance side. Easy to make if you have welder access or Mercato now has a supplier making them. Some more pics for those who want to make or buy one.




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top jaw is longer and curved so it can go around the curves in the leggy better

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7413
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:24 pm quote
Another groovy trick. The edge of the 4" brick splitting chisel is supporting the weight of the bike on the inside edge of the bottom of the groove while I' m pounding my chipping hammer into the groove hard.

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:28 pm quote
Double entry...

Last edited by qascooter on Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:30 pm quote
[quote="qascooter"]
V oodoo wrote:
Another groovy trick. The edge of the 4" brick splitting chisel is supporting the weight of the bike on the inside edge of the bottom of the groove while I' m pounding my chipping hammer into the groove hard
I like this one!
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 167
Location: Alexandria, VA
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:41 pm quote
Awesome V oodoo! Thanks for the tutorial!
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1201
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:50 pm quote
Haven't needed this tool yet, but I'm gonna have to make one now that you've shared this.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7413
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:39 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
...
His weld is so nice - a big ole blob...
I could have set the amperage a bit higher for better penetration but didn't want to risk melting the new pieces. This is why I prefer old fashioned stick welding to wire feed which seems better suited to production work. Would love me some TIG, but it's more complicated and more money.

BTW, your legshield weld looks a whole lot better than your groove tool. No blow holes, looks like all that practice paid off! Did you use a copper heatsink behind?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:15 am quote
Reweld
Voodoo was kind enough to stress the importance of ensuring the weld was solid, because if any part of the crack is not handled, chances are it'll crack again.

I I took a microscopic look at and gave it a serious fast flexing. Sure enough, started to show fatigue in the shape of a crack. Dangit!!!!

Back to the welder. This time though I backed the weld area with copper. A flattened out pipe fitting.

I ground down the pliers and rewelded them also. One of the things I found out is I need a super bright light, or lights on the work, so I can just make it out with the welding helmet on. Then I can weld much better.

Seriously feel I should've got a stick welder. This AC wire feed is not the most accurate. I mean, come on - I'm not welding a fence together. Everything is minuscule and requires super fine finesse. Live and learn....

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Copper backed this go around

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Dangit - I made a hole - now to fill it. This is a picture of it half filled..

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Now to grind and file. Pretty much complete!

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:07 am quote
I removed the floor rails using an old chisel and a punch. It's not too bad under the rails! I've cleaned them up and I'm pretty much ready to do some touch up paint.

I want to paint the legshield area that I welded, and also the floor rail areas that are worn to bare metal.

I'm going to straighten and polish the floor rails in preparation for the rivets and new rubber coming on Friday from Scootermercato.

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Rewelded the tool. Still looks like a hack job - ha!

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Removing the rails with the chisel. Use the beveled side and it cuts them right fine without gouging the paint.

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For the rivets that didn't fall out, a nail sink punch worked great

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Lots of straightening and polishing to do

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Floor pan before clean up

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Gunk removed from floor pan. Now to sand the areas that I'm going to touch up...

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7413
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:15 pm quote
Wow what a difference! Your paint is SOOO nice, you are gonna have one beautiful floor. Looks like you got the trim off nice & straight, you'll love the way it takes a polish.
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