First full restoration project.. 1980 P200E
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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1561
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:05 pm quote
I think that’s a wrong choice on the head. Since you’ll be using packers to “play” with the cylinder, the piston should be always at zero deck. You’ll definitely need a “normal” squish. I would go for this one...

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+head+mmw+px200+for_13013950

Also, avoid the MMW o-ring versions. I had two of them fail at the inside lip next to the o-ring. It’s too thin and both cracked...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:44 pm quote
This kit is the one you need.

https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+cylinder+malossi+mhr+_31163490

Mazz crank is ok. 138/6 is good.

I actually have that MMW zero head on my 200, which is about all its good for.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:54 am quote
Thanks safis and Jack. Any thoughts on gearing? Standard 23/65 or 23/64? Or anything funky with gears like t5 fourth?

I'm thinking just the stock 23/65 in bgm strong clutch with cr80 plates.
https://www.scooter-center.com/en/bgm8299b/clutch-bgm-pro-superstrong-cnc-cr80-type-cosa2/fl-for-primary-gear-64/65-tooth-vespa-px200-rally200?number=BGM8299
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:02 am quote
P200 gearing is already high for a Malossi. 23/65 with a 36 4th is a good choice. 22/65 with a 35 4th is about the same. Set up well, an MHR 221 will do 8500rpm in 4th and needs to be geared accordingly.

The extreme 25/62 type of gearing is for kits which have max power really low down like the M244 and Pinasco touring kits.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:31 pm quote
Jack, I will plan for that 36 tooth fourth. Thanks!

I got the Ospho and por15 this week. Took some time today to spray down the floor tunnel, neck, inside of frame and under frame in wheel well. It was seeping through the seams along the floor board in a few spots. So it got onto the paint in a few spots. I tried to wipe it up right away until it stopped seeping. Just wondering if this is going to ruin the paint in those areas where it came into contact with it? If it's not going to ruin the paint if I wipe it up immediately, do you guys think it's a good idea to coat all the visible rust all over the frame, floor boards/back of the leg shield above the glove box with it?

I'm still debating if I am gonna spray the inside and tunnel with Rust-Oleum or try to coat it with por15 somehow which seems like it would be difficult.

I'll definitely use the por15 underneath on both the wheel well and the frame bottom since I got the clear version.

IMG_20190629_191922.jpg

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floor tunnel

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floor tunnel

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inside frame

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seeping through where the green arrow is.

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seeping through where the green arrow is.

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in the fork tunnel area around the steering lock.

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coated all around and down the tunnel below the fork tube area with ospho.

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even tried to coat inside the fork tube and where the wiring comes out which is rusty.

Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:36 pm quote
I would think they you would want it to seep into the seams. That would prevent further rust.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:41 pm quote
I did, and am glad it did. My concern is that it seeped through to the front visible frame onto paint that I want to keep in good condition. Since Ospho is basically acid I'm wondering if it will ruin the paint. I guess I'll find out if the paint starts coming off!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4825
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:07 pm quote
The phosphoric acid in Ospho is heavily diluted. It won’t eat thru paint.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:26 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
The phosphoric acid in Ospho is heavily diluted. It won’t eat thru paint.
Awesome! Then I'm gonna coat all the rust with it before I finish the wet sanding and buffing, then test the clear por15 on the bottom of frame to see if I could use that on top of frame over the rust spots to create a strong rust preventative seal while leaving the rusted patina.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:03 am quote
and here is the floor tunnel after a day of soaking. Seems to have taken care of the problem in there sufficiently! Thanks guys for the ospho referral!

IMG_20190630_104419.jpg

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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:06 pm quote
Ospho doing its job
Going to town on the underside of the frame with Ospho!

IMG_20190630_185626.jpg

IMG_20190630_185640.jpg

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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:30 pm quote
Re: Ospho doing its job
swiss1939 wrote:
Going to town on the underside of the frame with Ospho!
The stuff is pretty dang good. I used it on a trailer frame one time. Worked fantastic. Just takes some time.

The frame is looking good Swiss!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:53 pm quote
went to town with some 1500/2000 grit wet sanding on the rusty leg shield above the glove box and around the lock body. Went over the whole frame with 1500/2000 grit wet sanding again for a second time. Then I coated all the rust spots with ospho and spread it around on the whole frame to remove as much streaks as I could.

Once this dries im gonna wet sand everything again. Then try the clear por15 on the bottom of the frame to see if it will look good over the paint on visible parts of the frame. If its good to go, then I'm coating all the rust on topside of frame with por15 and wet sanding again before buffing.

IMG_20190702_142244.jpg
taping off the frame stickers.. one of them is coming off anyways with the tape when I peel it off. This is prior to some serious aggressive wet sanding on this spot to clean up the rust.

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after all the wet sanding 1500/2000 grit and coated with ospho.

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ospho doing its work turning rust to black. I actually love the way this is looking with black spots everywhere and generally shitty looking spots among shiny buffed out paint when its done!

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I also went aggressive with the wet sanding here to get rid of some splotches on the front of leg shield that outlined the badge and some general rust.

IMG_20190702_155254.jpg

IMG_20190702_160247.jpg

Hooked
58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach, CA
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:06 pm quote
looking good! I love burgundy P200's. My first Vespa was a burgundy '79 P200E. I'm glad to see you bringing the og paint back to life
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:26 pm quote
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:43 pm quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
this is what I got.. https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:11 pm quote
Just wondering if anyone has taken apart the front suspension linkage before? Are there any specialized tools or what tools in general are required to take it apart? I want to take the whole front fork apart to get sand blasted and powder coated.
Hooked
P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:55 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
I'm sure you already know to get the POR15 with UV inhibitor, right?

Looks pretty good for an original paint bike. The rusty spots actually add to it.
this is what I got.. https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating
The "Top Coat" right?

POR-15® Rust Preventive Coating is designed for application directly on
rusted, sandblasted, and seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to a rock-hard,
non-porous finish that won’t chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from
recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture. POR-15®
Rust Preventive Coating is sensitive to UV light and must be topcoated when
prolonged exposure to sunlight is possible.
Topcoating is not required for
areas not exposed to sunlight.

Just make sure it is UV protection Top Coat. Hard to tell from the link. I say this because I used POR 15 on my trailer, not knowing that it is not UV, and it has faded to chalky, and pealed in a few places. Basically looks like crap.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:01 am quote
JimVonBaden wrote:
The "Top Coat" right?
no that stuff is not the top coat. I will use that for the frame bottom and interior. The top coat stuff is 2k urethane por-15. just ordered it.

I scratched the crap out of the front leg shield when trying to remove the two top glove box bolts that the previous owner left in there which rusted solid. goddammit! I did eventually get them off with the dremel tool, but had to cut some new slots in the head for the flat head, and that was how I scratched the leg shield when using flathead and a socket wrench with a ton of effort to loosen the bolt enough to make space for dremel cutter.

I know it is a beater scarred style, but with those two scratches now I am pissed, so Im gonna try to get a small bottle of paint matched up to this so I can touch those scratches up since they are right on the face of the leg shield where the badge goes.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:19 am quote
While I wait for the Por-15 2k urethane top coat to come and all the other stuff to dry on this frame, I started to dismantle the front fork/hub.

I'm still trying to figure out how to take apart the front suspension linkage, or if I even need to in order to powder coat. I feel like Robot from scooterwest mentioned in his p200 fork rebuild video that they don't take the linkage apart before powder coating if it all moves freely and doesn't have any bearing issues, but I'm not sure. I did check the fork to make sure it is all level as Robot suggested in the same video. It is straight and not bent, so that is a positive!

here is a video of the linkage movement which I think it moves fine, but the seals are definitely shot with a ton of krud on them.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zFykawjTFvWkHsUC6

Also, took the hub off and what a mess inside! It was quite a pain in the ass to get the brake shoes off, to the point that I literally broke them in half with brute force before I could remove the shoes. Then had to use a vice grip to clamp onto the remaining piece of shoe and wiggle it off the stud.

Now I'm struggling to get the circlip off the inside of the axle. This thing is frozen on solid. I am trying to soak it in pb blaster for a day and hoping that works. If not, I have no idea how to get that off, cause I already tried using a torch to heat it up and that didn't work.

Once I get both sides of the front hub apart and off the axle, then it is time to try to figure out how to remove all the seals and bearings to replace them.

EDIT: here is the scooterwest video where robot mentions they don't dismantle linkage before powder coating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KProxBh5trs&t=2m18s

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this could probably be rebuilt cause it appears to just be a broken plastic cover, but since the rear shock is dead, I'll replace both with new.

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what is this crud?

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holy hell this is a mess! looks like way more of the same crud that was inside the flywheel/stator.

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broke it with my strength.

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had to remove the remaining piece with a vice grip and some wiggling.

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the offending stud. thanks to this, I spent 30 min prying at the shoe.

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and now this damn circlip is the pain in my ass.

IMG_20190703_133139.jpg
so it is soaking in pb blaster for the next day.



Last edited by swiss1939 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:29 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
JimVonBaden wrote:
The "Top Coat" right?
no that stuff is not the top coat. I will use that for the frame bottom and interior. The top coat stuff is 2k urethane por-15. just ordered it.
Ahhh, cool.
Quote:
I scratched the crap out of the front leg shield when trying to remove the two top glove box bolts that the previous owner left in there which rusted solid. goddammit! I did eventually get them off with the dremel tool, but had to cut some new slots in the head for the flat head, and that was how I scratched the leg shield when using flathead and a socket wrench with a ton of effort to loosen the bolt enough to make space for dremel cutter.

I know it is a beater scarred style, but with those two scratches now I am pissed, so Im gonna try to get a small bottle of paint matched up to this so I can touch those scratches up since they are right on the face of the leg shield where the badge goes.
Bummer. Good luck!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:44 am quote
If I need a press to take the linkage apart and replace with new bearings, I am thinking of this press:
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html
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P125x (P200 Motor)
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 161
Location: Alexandria, VA
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:51 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
If I need a press to take the linkage apart and replace with new bearings, I am thinking of this press:
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html
That get's great reviews from my fiends, and on other forums. It is often on sale too.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:06 am quote
Not sure I want to attempt removing the linkage.. It seems even Hodge said it's difficult.

P front axel removal from link - best method??
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 am quote
Wow Swiss - you're getting after it! Right on! It looks like it took a salt bath for a while or someone rode it on the beach and never hosed it off - gnarly....

I'm enjoying the pictures and you're doing great man!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:28 pm quote
I wish I was getting after it! I'm slow and steady! I just read another post that said most guys here could rebuild a p motor in 1-3 hrs. I'm sure I will take my time on it and it will take me 2 weeks. The frame paint/rust I am very cautious about and have been doing like 30 min to an hour most a day out of hesitation. I have a feeling I am gonna take months to do this complete rebuild.. a little every day, since it's my first for almost every aspect of this.

Regarding the suspension linkage.. this just popped up on my youtube feed. Gonna watch it and see if maybe I could do this with that harbor freight press as I would prefer to do it right and rebuild completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyw9IYrFnjw
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:52 pm quote
Whoever this Italian is.. thanks for these obscure tips! rebuilding a suspension linkage.. and also how to remove the fork races upper and lower, using a long threaded rod and washer to bang out the race! I've been pondering this for a week or so as I work on the rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1nZQJLeU5M
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:30 pm quote
Finally received my spray gun from Amazon after almost 2 weeks. I'll be finishing the rust protection with por-15 sometime next week after I finish replacing the headliner on my truck ceiling with the spray gun!

The heat and humidity in NYC is off the scale right now, so all the spraying I do will take forever to dry for the next couple of weeks.
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58 VB1T, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 104
Location: Long Beach, CA
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:27 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Whoever this Italian is.. thanks for these obscure tips! rebuilding a suspension linkage.. and also how to remove the fork races upper and lower, using a long threaded rod and washer to bang out the race! I've been pondering this for a week or so as I work on the rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1nZQJLeU5M
I've been watching this guys videos for a long while! Lots of good tips in his videos. Very clear and precise. Good resource!
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:12 pm quote
I finally got the circlip holding the front inside hub off tonight. I was able to remove the whole front hub leaving the axle and the suspension linkage attached to the fork. So now I need to decide if I will be dissassembling the suspension linkage and giving the complete replacement/rebuild of the linkage a try, or just powder coating it without completely tearing it apart.

Anybody have experience powder coating the front fork with suspension linkage still attached? It won't cause any issues to get that powder coated without taking it apart right? I'll just need to replace the rubber seals for the linkage once it is done.
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GL, PK, PE200
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:23 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I finally got the circlip holding the front inside hub off tonight. I was able to remove the whole front hub leaving the axle and the suspension linkage attached to the fork. So now I need to decide if I will be dissassembling the suspension linkage and giving the complete replacement/rebuild of the linkage a try, or just powder coating it without completely tearing it apart.

Anybody have experience powder coating the front fork with suspension linkage still attached? It won't cause any issues to get that powder coated without taking it apart right? I'll just need to replace the rubber seals for the linkage once it is done.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a round rubber washer between the linkage and the fork? If so, that can not get powder coated. All non metallic parts must be removed before powder coating. Removing rust and painting the fork with a rust prevention paint will be OK because I don't like jacking with forks.
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:37 pm quote
rowdyc wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I finally got the circlip holding the front inside hub off tonight. I was able to remove the whole front hub leaving the axle and the suspension linkage attached to the fork. So now I need to decide if I will be dissassembling the suspension linkage and giving the complete replacement/rebuild of the linkage a try, or just powder coating it without completely tearing it apart.

Anybody have experience powder coating the front fork with suspension linkage still attached? It won't cause any issues to get that powder coated without taking it apart right? I'll just need to replace the rubber seals for the linkage once it is done.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a round rubber washer between the linkage and the fork? If so, that can not get powder coated. All non metallic parts must be removed before powder coating. Removing rust and painting the fork with a rust prevention paint will be OK because I don't like jacking with forks.
Yes that is the rubber seal I am talking about. In Robot's video rebuilding p200 front fork, he mentions powder coating the fork/linkage without disassembling. He removes the rubber washer, powder coats and then replaces the rubber washer with new that he cuts to size and super glues back together so that it can be reinstalled while the linkage is still together. I was curious if anyone else has done this, and if there were any tips to masking off the gaps where those rubber washers go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KProxBh5trs&t=3m22s
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1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
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Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 am quote
Exhaust decisions
Getting a bit ahead of myself but now that I am about to start devoting all my time to this project, I have been planning the parts I need for this bike. I want this to be a torque monster for touring longer distance. My goal is for it to be able to cruise on highway speeds of 55-65mph at 5-6000rpm and be as fuel efficient as possible. Ideally I hope it can get 50-60+ mpg highway. I'm relatively disappointed as of yet with fuel economy of my 166 but it was set up for a different purpose. I have settled on the 2016 Malossi kit with 60mm crank for this engine.

I have done some brief research on exhaust options aimed at tuned engines set up for torque. I've narrowed it down to two options, one of which is not available yet as far as I can tell. I'll preface these options with my preference for quieter exhausts given I live in the city and don't want to piss the neighborhood off every time I come home late or leave early.

Option 1: SIP Viper
-not available yet
-quieter than true expansion
-great specs
-21.7HP@6502 24.08N*M@6143
-relatively affordable

From scooterlab big box exhaust comparison done on the exact engine setup I plan on using
scooterlab.uk wrote:
SIP Viper

SIP Viper Box 210


SIP Viper Box



The Viper Box has been developed by German exhaust gurus Nordspeed Racing and will shortly be produced and distributed by SIP. This exhaust has been developed for highly-tuned engines like the Malossi MHR, but compared to the SIP Road XL, it coped quite well even with a less-than-ideal environment.



For reasons of completeness we also tested it on the standard engine, where it provided results similar to the BGM Big Box Sport. Again things looked rather different on the Malossi Sport engine where the Viper came to life – peak power is only a fraction behind the BBS (0.3hp) but the peak is earlier and there is slightly more torque in exchange.

Quote:
This will be a powerful good working setup. Also in terms of fittings, the Viper is designed to cater for the high-end section of the market and will come with a Viton O-ring flange plus plug-holes for EGT and Lambda probes as standard.
This, of course, has its price – the Viper box is expected to cost between 210, and 230, €. Available September from SIP.
Option 2: Pipe Designs Cobra 220 II MK III
-not cheap for the "quiet" double walled version. Can't find it right now but I think it was in the over 500 euro price range
-built specifically for low end torque
-specs look great
- I really like they point out a feature of this pipe that it is best for cruising highway at 5-6000rpm with great fuel economy!



Dyno is of the original II on a Malossi mhr kit
pipedesigns wrote:
HOME > EXHAUST> PX 200> COBRA 220 II MKIII 2018
COBRA 220 II MKIII 2018
... the biggest shooter you can buy for money ...


The Cobra 220 II version 2018 is a very large system, which is still full Hauptständer- and reserveradtauglich! The Cobra 220 II does not go back to the Cobra 220 but is comparable to the Duster 220. So it is almost a Duster 220 in hauptständertauglicher installation.

The resonance length of the Cobra 220 II is only 15 mm longer than the Duster 220 and the Cobra 220 II is slightly less aggressive. That is, the Vorresoleistung and thus the drivability is slightly higher / better than the Buster 220th

Thus, the Cobra 220 II is a very long and therefore extremely torque-heavy exhaust system, which even in conjunction with a machined Malossi MHR with high timing demands due to the early power start after a slightly longer gear (as the original 23/65 px200).



The Cobra 220 is laid very expensive and describes under the scooter an "S-shape" similar to a standing and threatening Cobra (glasses snake). Hence the name.





Performance / Characteristics
As already mentioned, the Cobra 220 II gives off its power very early and is therefore somewhat limited in speed range. You get an early and powerful torque shaft that you can "extend" by means of extended translation on the road. Thus, driving at high speeds with a lower speed level which limits the wear and allows lower consumption.



The Cobra 220 II offers better drivability on potent and heavily edited setups, as the typical torque delta in the pre-range range is lower.



In principle, the characteristics of this system is similar to the Cobra 220 and differs from it in that it again about 400 rev / min earlier resonates and accordingly fails Nm-heavy. As a rule, the power with 194 ° outlet time starts at around 4500 - 4750 rpm. The seat performance was delivered in the previously tested setups between very pleasant 6500 and 7200 U / min.



This is a very potent system for all tuning stages of the Vespa PX 200 based on a diaphragm or rotary valve inlet with the option of an extended ratio.





Optics / texture
Available in steel and completely stainless steel as well as optionally in double-walled design.



The Cobra 220 II is a two-piece exhaust system with a spring-loaded exhaust manifold, a viton-sealed exhaust flange and high-quality screw-on aluminum damper, resulting in an acceptable noise level.



Furthermore, great care was taken in the complex laying on gentle radii by small angular jumps and high number of segments in the important places of laying, so as not to jeopardize the output by flow breaks and high wall friction or even limit. The main purpose of this elaborate installation is that despite voluminous and long exhaust system has no restrictions on the main stand and can use this without any modifications.



The Cobra systems are mounted on solid supports with PTFE bushes and are sealed at the outlet like all PX systems by Pipe Design by a high-quality Viton flange and fixed with two springs.



The high-quality and screwable aluminum damper with 80 x 300 mm of the 5th generation has a metal bushing and a welded tube. This prevents loose shaking even at high mileages. The large silencer is again sealed with a Viton ring on the damper flange and reliably fixed by a massive support fin.



The Cobra 220 runs in the first manifold loop very tight (3-5mm) under the engine housing to still get the maximum ground clearance. The belly area is positioned horizontally under the floor panel with sufficient clearance to the main column springs. Correctly mounted, the rear shock absorber is also parallel to the road surface or inclines 1-2 ° downwards, so that it is parallel at the latest in the driving position.



Thus, despite complex installation, a tidy and crisp overall picture of the vehicle. From the same design to PX models as grade Rally, Sprint, VNA, VNB, etc.





Setup / technical requirements
Of course, the Cobra 220 II, like the Duster 220, can even run on unprocessed cylinders and, contrary to expectations, even well on the original cylinder of the PX200, as already mentioned. Its full performance, however, can only develop from about 190 ° outlet and about 68% outlet width, the optimum being about 194 °. In the case of one-piece outlets, the outlet time cross section is the minimum factor purely in terms of performance.



The optimal overcurrent time can not be specified precisely, since it depends very individually on all factors influencing the medium pressure and on the cylinder used. Roughly the optimal value lies however between 126 - 130 °.



For powerful and elastic motors, a well-milled diaphragm inlet with a modern and efficient diaphragm (such as the V-force 4 in RD350 size) and a sufficiently large carburetor of at least 30 mm are mandatory. Suitable suitable are particularly suitable. Mushroom or bell waves in 60-62mm stroke.



Obligatory is for a meaningful use of the Cobra 220 II usually an extension of the gearbox at least on 24/65 with original 4th gear.





tip
If in doubt, always start with a little less over-time and, if necessary, slowly "test" (eg using Fudi in 2 / 10mm increments). Because with many Vespa cylinders (and just at the 210 Malossi), the Nm sag too fast and clear at too much over-time! Although the torque curve is sometimes not perfect with a little bit of overshoot, the Nm value has often reached its maximum!





Note:
? This exhaust system is a racing product without a flat road legal license (E number)



FACTS


Exhaust texture:
Plant in two parts with a plug connection
Main stand and reserveradtaugliche installation despite the large resonance length for early power entry
No protrusion of the rear shock over the rear tire
very finely segmented manifold area for undisturbed gas exchange grade at high speeds
Outlet flange with Vitonring seal
high-quality and large silencer made of aluminum (300 x 80 mm) of the 5th generation
Vitonringabdichtung to the muffler
Massive bracket with PTFE bushes
Gentle and performance-oriented radii
Potent exhaust system for sports touring with a longer gear






Customer-specific characteristics:
optionally double-walled available
Steel or stainless steel
Damper position: selectable parallel to the ground or to the ground
optionally with Pipe Design logo and serial number in the penultimate large segment of the counter cone
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1637

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:54 am quote
If you're after torque for touring and fuel economy, an expansion chamber isn't the best choice...in fact, it's probably the worst choice. I think most everyone here is against the Sito+ for various reasons (i still like them), but that's the exact type of exaust that will work the best for the type of riding that your described. Expansion chambers (and box style expansion chambers) are better for having fun on twisty back roads, while a boring box exhaust is better for straight line touring, torque, and fuel economy. I do love the looks of expansion chambers, but they just don't work with most of the type of riding that i do. I typically hop on the highway and commute about 30 miles (one way) at about 55-65mph. An expansion chamber would just make my scoot run hotter and get less fuel economy...and i'd still only be able to cruise at 55-65mph.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:09 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
If you're after torque for touring and fuel economy, an expansion chamber isn't the best choice...in fact, it's probably the worst choice. I think most everyone here is against the Sito+ for various reasons (i still like them), but that's the exact type of exaust that will work the best for the type of riding that your described. Expansion chambers (and box style expansion chambers) are better for having fun on twisty back roads, while a boring box exhaust is better for straight line touring, torque, and fuel economy. I do love the looks of expansion chambers, but they just don't work with most of the type of riding that i do. I typically hop on the highway and commute about 30 miles (one way) at about 55-65mph. An expansion chamber would just make my scoot run hotter and get less fuel economy...and i'd still only be able to cruise at 55-65mph.
Ok. Good info. Aside from the older Sito+, are there any new box exhausts you think would be a good fit?
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GL, PK, PE200
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 661
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1637

Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:27 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
If you're after torque for touring and fuel economy, an expansion chamber isn't the best choice...in fact, it's probably the worst choice. I think most everyone here is against the Sito+ for various reasons (i still like them), but that's the exact type of exaust that will work the best for the type of riding that your described. Expansion chambers (and box style expansion chambers) are better for having fun on twisty back roads, while a boring box exhaust is better for straight line touring, torque, and fuel economy. I do love the looks of expansion chambers, but they just don't work with most of the type of riding that i do. I typically hop on the highway and commute about 30 miles (one way) at about 55-65mph. An expansion chamber would just make my scoot run hotter and get less fuel economy...and i'd still only be able to cruise at 55-65mph.
Ok. Good info. Aside from the older Sito+, are there any new box exhausts you think would be a good fit?
When you say “good fit”, do you mean how well the Sito physically fits, or how well it would fit with the type of riding that you’re describing? Sito’s historically fit poorly. A little grinding and ovalling a hole has always does the trick for me to make them fit.

I have zero experience with any of the newer box exhausts. I think most of them are designed for higher horsepower at a higher RPM. As fun as that is, it doesn’t suit my highway commuting riding. A Sito will still let my stock P2 rev out pretty close to 8k RPMs when on the centerstand. I also have a Sito+ on my ported PX215. It’s setup for highway commuting as well. I have a 30 mil dellorto on it, and I receive about a 50 mpg return if I keep it below 60mph. I’ve tried a few different expansions chambers over the years, but my fuel went down, and my cylinder temps went up. I did have a Simmonini pipe that worked well for me on the highway though. It had better ground clearance in the twisties, but I ended up going back to a Sito with that one as well.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:38 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
When you say “good fit”, do you mean how well the Sito physically fits, or how well it would fit with the type of riding that you’re describing?
I meant fit for the driving style. Appreciate your thoughts on this. I think it's worth a shot to give the Sito+ a try given it is dirt cheap. I can always try a bgm or polini as well and get rid of the one I like least.

If you have the choice of Sito + or sticking with the stock pipe, does going to Sito+ give better performance in torque over the stock pipe? I have a rusty stock pipe that I could stick with but I need to burn it out to clean out any nesting that may have happened over the 20+ years it sat.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:10 pm quote
front hub bearing removal.. should replace hub?
I went and removed the bearings in the front hub today. Didn't realize the inner dimension is stepped smaller and smaller. I used too big sockets in attempt to bang out the bearing and got it stuck about quarter to half an inch before I realized it wasn't the bearing providing resistance. Is this sketchy to continue using the hub after getting a socket jammed in there potentially stripping the stepped edges? I took pictures of it but I have never seen a new one to know if it is damaged or safe to use.

Also the drum surface is pretty damn rusty. I know its not supposed to be smooth, but its pitted. Should I replace the hub with new for either of these reasons or is it safe to reuse this? I would rather reuse it now if it is perfectly safe to use, because if I replace it, I would go with a disc brake conversion hub which is more than I want to spend currently on anything hub related.

IMG_20190728_163704.jpg

IMG_20190728_163737.jpg
socket wedged between stepped edges. are they damaged?

IMG_20190728_164554.jpg
you can see how far it got stuck in there from the scraped outer surface.

IMG_20190728_163949.jpg
rusty and pitted drum surface.

IMG_20190728_163955.jpg
good as is, or hit it with some sandpaper, or replace the whole hub?

Enthusiast
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 57
Location: 3rd Rock From the Sun
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:24 pm quote
if its rusted and pitted. replace.
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