My '63 VBB2T project
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Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:56 am quote
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
swa45 wrote:
Easy enough to go 8" on a P engine, but you may want to consider an upgear to get the best out of it. Maybe see if the builder can install a 62T primary as part of the deal. You'll then have a nice choice of 23/24/25T clutch gears.
He advised not to do so at first.
I could experiment a bit with the clutch gear cog later on without opening the engine.
Going up, you'll only have one option with a 65T primary, and that's a 24T clutch. That's a good option with 10" wheels and a mild touring tune.
This would be to get a higher top speed, correct?
I don't think I need that, I'm already scared now
It's not about the top speed, although it will increase with an upgear. For me, it's nice to cruise at lower RPM. You'll be able to cruise at 90kmh at ~5500 RPM which would be a really nice comfortable ride. This is with 24/62 and 8" wheels.
I have absolutely no intention to ride it at 90km/h
If I want to do that, I also have a GTS300...

Last edited by DD_VES on Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:57 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
Score #2: Continuing good relationship with the expert builder
That's important..
We're on the same Vespaforum here in Belgium. And I'm on whatsapp with him.
The deal is sealed btw, picking it up tomorrow evening!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7318
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:30 am quote
Tomorrow, eh?
Quote:
I have absolutely no intention to ride it at 90km/h
Still, you're gonna be pleasantly surprised at how fast you will go and how quickly you'll get there. Time to begin thinking about getting your little front brake into the best condition possible - best slotted shoes, make sure the drum is good & sand the braking surface to break the glaze if it looks OK. File the burrs off the brake cam, grease it and the pivot pins, check & lube the cable & lever... - you probably know the drill .
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:20 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
Tomorrow, eh?
Quote:
I have absolutely no intention to ride it at 90km/h
Still, you're gonna be pleasantly surprised at how fast you will go and how quickly you'll get there. Time to begin thinking about getting your little front brake into the best condition possible - best slotted shoes, make sure the drum is good & sand the braking surface to break the glaze if it looks OK. File the burrs off the brake cam, grease it and the pivot pins, check & lube the cable & lever... - you probably know the drill .
Nope, drill is unknown..
OOL btw..
I did replace the front brakes in the beginning, but I rarely use them in fact. The scoot dives a lot, I'm not too confident on the front brake...
Did replace the shock btw.
But I'll make sure they are in the best possible shape
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:54 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Tomorrow, eh?


IMG_7326.jpg

IMG_7328.jpg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:13 pm quote
serial..

1979 P200E

IMG_7327.jpg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:15 am quote
Ordered the below list this morning.
Mechanically, I should be able to mount this engine in my frame.
Electrically, I have big doubts on my skills


Screen Shot 2019-06-20 at 09.40.08.png

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:26 am quote
Other than the joys of pulling a new wiring harness, you'll be fine.

You have the correct brake light switch, which is the thing that most people get wrong in this adventure (including myself, the first time I did it).
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:57 am quote
My 12V conversion is still in the mail, but I allready removed the engine!

Someone has a trick on how to install an engine alone, without help?

IMG_7352.jpg

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:09 am quote
I've never had the benefit of help when installing an engine.

What I've found works best is to put the engine on the ground with a block of wood under the swingarm, then slide the frame down over the engine.

You can get the swingarm bolt through the engine side pretty easily, then you'll want to use a screwdriver, punch, or some other similar tool to get the fly side hole lined up and push it through.

good luck!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:18 am quote
Hey DD,

First you've gotta work your magic with the paint.

I've only done it a couple times but I've always had the bike held up by the back fender. Then slide 2x4's and plywood under the engine, raising it up to be close, then wedge the swingarm up so you can get the bolt started. From there, you're golden.

I hope this helps.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:32 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Hey DD,

First you've gotta work your magic with the paint.

I've only done it a couple times but I've always had the bike held up by the back fender. Then slide 2x4's and plywood under the engine, raising it up to be close, then wedge the swingarm up so you can get the bolt started. From there, you're golden.

I hope this helps.
Yes. Itís not bad that Iíve not immediately had success installing the engine. I think itíll be easier to do the wiring without the engine. Iíll also put on a new rear shock and remove the black paint.

Thought I was finished with the decap
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:48 am quote
Jack under the rear of the frame, engine on a piece of thin hardboard so it slides around easily, lift swing arm into place, insert bolt.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7318
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:00 pm quote
^^^ This plus I like to stick a long screwdriver thru the main pivot from the wrong side before I put the long bolt in, following the screwdriver out. Makes it easier for me to find the hole on the far side working alone, I have a handle I can lever the motor around with while I hunt for the hole. Obviously a Phillips driver works best. Being careful & holding the motor steady with my knees, I usually don't lose the far side hole at the finish getting the bolt all in. Sort of like Chandler does.

Last edited by V oodoo on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rusty Bluebadge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 697
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:03 pm quote
VBB with p200 engine and Sito+ should be ok, no?
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:15 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Hey DD,

First you've gotta work your magic with the paint.

.
Done

C4AAAD91-434C-4606-876D-C739384F89F7.jpeg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:19 pm quote
DD_VES wrote:
qascooter wrote:
Hey DD,

First you've gotta work your magic with the paint.

.
Done
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:41 pm quote
DD_VES wrote:
VBB with p200 engine and Sito+ should be ok, no?
i'll be fast and ok

good luck with the vbb200 and cheer mate
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:03 pm quote
Ordered my shock setup today

The more I work on it, the more I want my little project to turn out as and oldtimer with a sick setup underneath

Screen Shot 2019-06-28 at 22.20.56.png

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:18 am quote
Started the 12V conversion today!

Only forgot to take pictures of my cable routing...

Who has some pictures of brake cables, clutch, throttle and the rest?





IMG_7427.jpg

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IMG_7429.jpg

IMG_7430.jpg

IMG_7431.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:08 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
Ordered my shock setup today

The more I work on it, the more I want my little project to turn out as and oldtimer with a sick setup underneath
like T5Bitsa often said.. its gonna be a hauling ass, a nice street sleeper vespa

i know i just change a gear cable on a super but i also forget to take a pics, hope someone else have a pics for you

good luck on the vespa and cheer mate
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:52 am quote
I actually think itís ok.
Handlebar:
Left hole from left to right:
- gear cable
- gear cable
- clutch

Right hole left to right:
- wiring loom
- gas cable

Someone who can confirm?
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:04 am quote
Pic

89A2C37D-1534-4013-BD98-534AF49A5981.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:29 pm quote
Yesterday eveniing, I finished the handlebar switch and installed the 12V regulator! Was easy in fact, if you need to do it, nothing to be worried about..

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IMG_7445.jpg

IMG_7446.jpg

IMG_7447.jpg

IMG_7448.jpg

IMG_7449.jpg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:28 pm quote


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Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:29 pm quote


2CD4D322-8A8B-4EDB-80CB-BEA7AB9FA53D.jpeg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:38 am quote
It's alive!

Unfortunately I screwed up with the 8" conversion. The oil seal is of the wrong diameter, so oil poured out at the left while I was filling at the right...

Oil seal is ordered, but I'm leaving on holiday, so hopefully on the road at the beginning of Aug.

I'll also have to double-check the carb, since idle only holds when the idle screw is fully closed (clock-wise). As soon as I move it a bit anti-clocwise it stalls.

IMG_7510.jpg

Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:50 am quote
Now itís really alive!!

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:51 am quote
Congratulations! That first ride after a tear down is a great feeling. Kept expecting you to come down the street doing a big wheelie ... maybe the next vid ...
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:54 am quote
Looking good!

Like SoCal said, there's nothing like that first test ride after a teardown when everything Just Works

I saw you doing the Vespa-patented "lean over and see if the *)*)#$@ headlight is working or not" at the beginning, too. I know that one well.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 680
Location: california
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:11 am quote
Quote:
I saw you doing the Vespa-patented "lean over and see if the *)*)#$@ headlight is working or not"
Hahahaha!
I always put my glove in front of it to see if it's on (this time).

Love the bike DD.
You may want to consider a disk brake for your next upgrade!

Enjoy the Belgian weather.

-CM
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:10 am quote
hahaha!
Lol
Wheelies will have to wait until after break in
I was not testing the headlight, but was figuring out which button did what (12v conversion so new handlebar switch).

Itís quite fast!
Still plenty to do btw! Trims, floor rails, front suspension, ...
But at least I can ride it now!

Curious to see the face of my cousin who made fun of me when he smoked me on his Sprint 177 He doesnít know i put a p2 in it!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:11 pm quote
I reinstalled the rear rack, Iím liking it in fact... I also tried to age my ugly license plate...

57DC62B3-552B-4803-928D-75AB862BE829.jpeg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:51 pm quote
Right on DD! Satisfying run around the block! Your bike looks great. And I kinda like the humongous plate.

Great job in getting it on the road. And stripping the layers of paint?!? My hats off to you good sir!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7318
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:18 pm quote
Nicely done! Get them mechanicals first rate and screw doing anything with the paint, that's your bike's charm. In a way you're lucky, your's is so far gone now (in a good way!) there's no point in trying to 'rescue' it like some of us are struggling with. And I do love seeing this motor:


pushing this wheel:


Yipee!
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:16 am quote
Guys (and girls?), question:

I now run the stock P200E engine on my 8" wheels.
I still have to break it in, so we'll see what it gives, but it might be a little short geared.
I would like to avoid opening up the engine again, since all of it is new. And there is one bolt of the engine that has been helicoiled, so I would like to avoid touching it if possible.

If needed, would a DRT 24 clutch gear cog work? And what would be the difference in cruising speed?

Another option might be to run a 10" wheel in the back, but I'm having difficulties to find pictures of a Large Frame with such a setup.
Anyone?

Thanks!
Addicted
GL, PK, PE200, Rusty Bluebadge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 697
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:00 am quote
One way to look at it is to use the scooterhelp gear calculator to see what speed to expect but changing only the clutch gear will decrease your speed. http://www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.html You will need a tach to verify the rpm's.

Based on the calculator, now your speed with the p200 motor and 8 inch tires @ 6000 rpm is around 55mph. If you change the clutch gear to 21 teeth it goes down to 50mph and 20 teeth clutch gear is 48mph. 22 teeth gear is 53mph. I don't know if other teeth clutch gears will fit.

The calculator also states that a 24 tooth clutch and 64 primary (need to open cases) will get you around 59mph @ 6000 rpm. http://www.scooterhelp.com/cgi-bin/vespa.gear.calc.pl

If you open the motor you can put you vbb kick starter in there.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 am quote
rowdyc wrote:
One way to look at it is to use the scooterhelp gear calculator to see what top speed to expect but changing only the clutch gear will decrease your speed. http://www.scooterhelp.com/tuning/vespa.gear.calc.html

Based on the calculator, now your stop speed with the p200 motor and 8 inch tires @ 6000 rpm is around 55mph. If you change the clutch gear to 21 teeth it goes down to 50mph and 20 teeth clutch gear is 48mph. Other teeth clutch gears will not fit.

If you open the motor you can put you vbb kick starter in there.
Are you sure about this?
DRT makes a 24 clutch gear cog that should fit the original 65.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+gear+cog+2426+teeth+_13082910


I cannot calculate this in the calculator, since 24/65 is not an option in the calculator.


How much RPM does a broken-in P200E makes?
What's a confortable cruising RPM?
I was wondering how many MPH or KPH I would win at for example 5 or 6000 RPM by going from the standard 23 to a DRT 24 clutch gear cog.

Would the below be correct? Or utter b*llsh*t?
For example 23/65 is 55MPH at 6000 RPM.
20/65 is 48 MPH at 6000 RPM
What I did is=
23-20 = 3
55 - 48 = 7
3 tooth = 7 MPH.
So one tooth should be 2.33 MPH
So going from 23 to 24 would give 55 + 2.33 = 57.33?

I allready have a VBB kickstart They now make them compatible to the PX kick start shaft.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4883
Location: So Cal
Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:21 am quote
A 24T clutch cog will help but I donít think itís going to make a big difference. The gearing on the P200 engine is almost 10% lower than your VBB engine. Iíd bite the bullet and change both the primary and the clutch cog... lots more options. And you can change the kickstart while youíre at it.

Whatever you do please don't put a 10Ē wheel on that beautiful 8Ē scoot!
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