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MP3 400 "Merlin"
Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 872
Location: Northwest Ohio
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:32 pm quote
roadster wrote:
possibly a knock from a fall
Erm...might have happened once or twice...
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 262
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:45 pm quote
jerryd wrote:
that makes it even worse for you.
Actually, you give us the Impression that you always want to be right
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Location: tampa
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:51 pm quote
only when I am right. its rotten advice to say welding this header is a good idea.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 262
Location: West Germany
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:33 pm quote
jerryd wrote:
only when I am right. its rotten advice to say welding this header is a good idea.
Yeah, but you and others who will remain nameless at this point in time take everything too seriously and you take it as a personal affront when somebody has a different oppinion than your own. I know my abilities and I can tell you without a doubt that I am no Mr. Know-it-all. I never went to College, I never studied Metalergie like Madison or am no Rocket Sientist like jimc, but I can at least say that I have been a learned Mechanic and Welder for 35 years now. You and a few others who will remain nameless at this time need to chill. Keep giving advice though. It does help those who really need it and they and I myself do apprieciate it emmensly. You guys do have pretty good ideas. You just should try to bring it across better with a little Deplomacy. I don't mean just you, but also the other nameless few. I hope I didn't step on anybodies toes writing this, but this perticular discussion seems to be getting out of Hand.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 131
Location: Sayre, PA
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:20 am quote
If you search YouTube for "micbergsma mp3" he has several take apart videos that might be helpful.
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4283
Location: Marietta, GA
Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:50 am quote
roadster wrote:
pmatulew wrote:
OAD: I'd like to see it done without removing everything. I'll bring the popcorn. Heck I'll bring the beer!

I considered the possibility of jacking the motor up and down. Not sure how much it would help or how much travel is available as the pipe still has to pass through the lower bracket.
I've done it at least four times to fit and then remove an aftermarket full system on the MP3 400. The right hand nut/stud is unscrewed from beneath and the left hand one via the spark plug access cover. A wide selection of tools is needed as well as plenty of patience because sometimes you can only find room to turn the nut by one or two flats at a time. The biggest time saver was a ratchet ring spanner which only worked after I had cut about 1 inch from the handle so that I could get it in on the spark plug side with room to turn it.
Yes !
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4106
Location: Netherlands Olst
Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:55 am quote
what a BS about not welding used RVS done it many times no problems
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 231
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:38 am quote
Yeah, welding vs new/used is a value proposition rather than a question of whether it possible. A new header is around $100 and taking the pipe to a welder, getting it welded by a professional at exactly the correct angle with a weld that will hold up is going to be about $100 too. Unless you have a TIG welder in your garage, which most of us don't. For something like this, I'd just buy a new one.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4106
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:19 am quote
Welding should be more then 30 bucks thats what i ask for customers
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 231
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:55 am quote
Agree to disagree. Getting a welder to do a careful job of fixturing, stoppering and flooding the tube with argon, then TIG welding with skill the correct stainless steel -not all shops have all types of stainless steel filler rod- will cost a minimum of $100. It's about an hour job with setup and $100/hr is the going rate for immigrant landscapers around here, let alone skilled craftsmen.
Addicted
MP3 400 "Merlin"
Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 872
Location: Northwest Ohio
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:13 am quote
Follow up question: We purchased the exhaust gasket (#26 in the diagram) from scooterparts. The description said it fits a 400 but it looks like it's a slightly different size than the old one. The older one isn't as thick and fits tighter when it's seated in its place in the pipe. Is this normal for a new part?
Squeazel wrote:
Looks like you need a new exhaust header. The flange part sheared off. AF1 will have one, but I'd try EBay too. Do you have an aftermarket exhaust or stock? Sometimes aftermarket mufflers put a lot of stress on the header.

Anyway, the only way to get those two nuts off the head is to use a ratcheting box-end wrench from the side. 13mm is the size. It barely fits. You can drop the bracket that the pipe goes through, but that's a much bigger job because there are a couple of needle bearings that will come loose and need to be reassembled and the preload will need to be set on them.

Make sure to get a new exhaust gasket as well as a new graphite gasket. You'll probably need new nuts and may need new studs for the head.

In the diagram below- #29, #26, #11, and 2ea #25. The studs are on the cylinder head assembly, but if their threads are bunged up, I'd get a pair of those, too.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38050
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:27 pm quote
They wear thin quite quickly. A new gasket is always thicker than an old one that's been in for 1000 miles or so. This is why nipping up the clamp on a regular basis is a wise move, and prolongs the life of the gasket.
Addicted
MP3 400 "Merlin"
Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 872
Location: Northwest Ohio
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:36 pm quote
jimc wrote:
They wear thin quite quickly. A new gasket is always thicker than an old one that's been in for 1000 miles or so. This is why nipping up the clamp on a regular basis is a wise move, and prolongs the life of the gasket.
Interesting. Thank you!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 5715
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:04 pm quote
I'm not so sure they 'wear' thin so quickly, but rather get smooshed.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21486
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:41 pm quote
# 26 folks is the head to pipe gasket not the graphite pipe to muffler bushing.

the new copper gasket should be thicker than the old one as is does squish down thus creating the seal.

did you also get the new studs and copper nuts? highly recommended .
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38050
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:35 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
# 26 folks is the head to pipe gasket not the graphite pipe to muffler bushing.

the new copper gasket should be thicker than the old one as is does squish down thus creating the seal.

did you also get the new studs and copper nuts? highly recommended .
Ah, sorry. I never remove the downpipe - not even when removing the engine, so didn't even consider that gasket!
Addicted
MP3 400 "Merlin"
Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 872
Location: Northwest Ohio
Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:27 pm quote
Once again, many thanks for everyone's advice and help. Merlin will ride again. <3
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 231
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:00 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
I'm not so sure they 'wear' thin so quickly, but rather get smooshed.
Yes, they get smooshed when they're installed- makes them thinner and bigger in diameter. That's why I don't re-use the old one; the seal may not be as good with a re-used gasket, and I *hate* taking that header off because the nuts are so hard to get to and I'm willing to spend the extra $5 to make sure I don't have to.
Addicted
MP3 400 "Merlin"
Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 872
Location: Northwest Ohio
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:27 pm quote
Squeazel wrote:
Madison Sully wrote:
I'm not so sure they 'wear' thin so quickly, but rather get smooshed.
Yes, they get smooshed when they're installed- makes them thinner and bigger in diameter. That's why I don't re-use the old one; the seal may not be as good with a re-used gasket, and I *hate* taking that header off because the nuts are so hard to get to and I'm willing to spend the extra $5 to make sure I don't have to.
Yeah, we certainly learned THAT on this project! My husband did the bulk of the work but needed my smaller hands to get those nuts threaded. Getting them out was a pain, but getting them back on was brutal. I dropped the danged thing three times before I got it going. Then he wedged the wrench in and ratcheted it down ONE CLICK AT A TIME.

We did use the new gasket, and a new graphite gasket on the other end.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Location: tampa
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:07 am quote
interesting welding in the first part of video. what kind of welder is that? or is it just good technique with tig with heat turned up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNgTlmVXYI
[img]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNgTlmVXYI[/img]
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