Modern Vespa

Been going so well I've not posted much about this. For a while I have noticed the silencer slip coupling is wearing thin on the exhaust. Tried several things but the pipe is just too old and probably 20,000 miles. Needs welding repair and a major de-coke.
Exhaust is a JL RZ mark I right hand, this is not ideally suited to this engine as it doesn't really have the expansion capacity for this MHR. They were never designed for much more than 20bhp 15 years ago.

So, new modern exhaust needed. What should I get? Keeping the spare wheel and the centre stand are non negotiable.
SIP performance 2.0 right hand, is top of my list.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+exhaust+sip+performance_22130ca
Scooter and Service Newline is second as long as I can make the stand fit.
https://www.scooter-and-service.de/shop/vespa-rennauspuff-

Anything else to consider? Anyone have Dyno charts?

Have you checked Pipe Design??

www.pipedesign.de

No dyno charts or even opinion on pipes... except to mention that JL pipes can be bought directly. Good (better) prices and excellent company to deal with. Oliver Lomas went out of his way to help me...

MRP are now making a special plate to facilitate moving the centre stand forward to allow extra room for pipes. No drilling.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/main+stand+offset+mrp+for_22159636 Yes P-D have a shit ton of dynos on their pipes, more MHR's than anything else. It's interesting reading even if you can't afford his quite steep prices.

That MRP plate sure opens up a few possibilities. I wouldn't know where to start looking for stuff like that. Definitely time for a fatter pipe and even the JL RZ interfered with the stand, so going to be an issue.

Know any more right hand exhausts? Pipe design don't seem to make any. And JL only make the one I have. Surprised the JL site doesn't have the SIP Performace 2.0 on it as JL are supposed to make it.

following!

Try contacting them. Maybe you can still get it direct. I ordered direct as both SIP and SC were out of stock. Turned out well for me.

Have a pipe design Cobra on my 230MHR, great performance but its a left hand pipe, so cant change the wheel without removing it and cant adjust the clutch cable due to its design. Thinking of getting a NSR PX 200 Mustang Right Hand Side from Nordspeed.
http://www.nordspeed-racing.de/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=33&category_id=12&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

Although more appropriate than my JL RZ, the Cobra didn't make the cut. Now I know its a pain for the day to day stuff, it may look pretty but its out.

Haven't found any data on the RH Mustang yet but I have a feeling it's lower peak rpm like the Cobra. If it is ok it would be top of the list. being cheaper and better looking.

The Nordspeed V5 hits the spot
http://www.nordspeed-racing.de/images/stories/leistungsdiagramme/nordspeed-racing_v5_41ps.jpg
but is left hand and possibly similar pain to the Cobra with the wheel and spare.
I would go left if I could keep the spare wheel. Any suggestions? looking for peak power at or over 8500 rpm

I had an old Scoot RS pipe on mine, which was left hander. I actually found it easier to change the rear wheel than any other pipe. First thing I did was slot the rear part of the bracket off the swing arm (something I do to every pipe I get my hands on).
When you need to change the tyre you tip the scooter over and unscrew the bolt on the bracket until it's just free of the captive nut. Next you simply swing the pipe down out of the way, pivoting at the connection just after the downpipe. Easy peasy.

226 Vintage used to make a right hand pipe. I don’t know what kind of tune their exhaust supports. The problem is that they quit making exhausts close to 10 years ago.

I love the Cobra, but maybe it's not for you Jack...

BTW, it allows a spare wheel, works fine with the stand (needs the smaller double spring setup though) and drops in 2 minutes. With the tubeless rims, even before the Cobra, I never had to take out the wheel unless it was for something major (brake shoes, clutch plates, etc.). Oh, and so far, I never had a flat. Yes, I agree the clutch cable is a bit of a PITA (but even with a right hand exhaust it will be the same) but I am using Michael's method and so far it's been pretty easy...

https://scooterlab.uk/scooterist-tip-5-large-frame-vespa-clutch-cable-workshop/

Glad it's been useful! Do you strip the plastic off so it doesn't melt against the pipe?

Seems like there are 3 versions of the Cobra. The latest one is just in the rpm range. With the spare wheel fitting too, it's back on the list

Yes...

Nice hack Ginch. And t-shirt!

I’ve seen it on here recently... I seem to recall it was on an Indo bike... Brother E?

yes, i did that too, the reason so that my back bone didnt stress to much when tightening the cable

Jack, just came across the following in one of your Scooterotica posts:

"btw, Mine has a JL RZ rhs on too and have no plans to change it, ever!"

Jokes aside, I was using the thread to give me some more pointers for my MHR build. All good stuff.

Thanks for posting this!

Just want to double check, which carb did you use?

And a question after watching the video, when you roll off the throttle it seems to be smooth, the noise.

I’m getting a lot of machine gun noise when I come off the throttle, any ideas why?

Had to go and check, that post was 2014 Exhaust wasn't new then but had been on maybe a year at that point. Different crank, cylinder, head, flywheel now. With the old 210 it was great but on the MHR its out the game before the full rpm. Could be losing as much as 5bhp from the top.
All the new pipes I want are going to be months away. Out of stock or made to order. The old RZ will need a patch up to get through the Summer. Carb is Race polished Dellorto VHSH30CS. Although this one punches above its weight, it is a little small and all it's expensive parts are getting worn out. A whole new one would make more sense.

Have you got a thread for your carb issues? Do a sound recording of the noise and I'll see if I know what it is.

You can see it here:

https://youtu.be/Fr4mSJp1t30

Done some more dremel work on the MHR about a week ago. Gave it another 1 degree of blowdown. now it's all jetted, it's going great. Better as soon as I Rode off. Goes to 9000 rpm comfortably. Rest of the scooter is suffering. Exhaust crack is now big. Can still ride it but new one is really urgent. Still a month away though.
The new CR 80 plates have started slipping at high rpm in 4TH. Back shock feels bouncy. Another $50 order to SIP is needed. I think this revision is finally it though. The way the power comes on through the gears is like a bike. And top speed now ridiculous.

Sounds great Jack! So what are the full specs now (port timing, carb settings etc)?

Port timing is now 129 190 30.5 but my 15 year old design JL RZ is working beyond its rev range. Good for me as this means the new exhaust will improve performance even further. All the new pipes and boxes have much stronger diffuser sections and bigger volume expansion. Meaning they have way more effect when matched to the port timing. Looking forward to seeing that.

I'm going to need a bigger carb in the end. I have a VHSB38 available but will need to convert to reed to use it. Don't like reeds but going to be no choice.

For the record carb re jet ended up DQ261 atomiser K93 needle on clip 3 68 pilot B62 inner 60 slide 175 main jet

I love the fatalism here. "What else can I do?"

What about reeds you don't like? Curious what rotary provides that you like more? Not questioning it. Just trying to understand the differences and why some prefer one over the other.

Not updated this for a while. New clutch and exhaust and was going great since. Then started smoking. Main seal has now gone. Who says tuned engines are unreliable? Engine currently out and in many pieces. While I'm at it I will dust off the old VHS 38 and....go reed.

And if going reed might as well go all the way to the dark side with a Tassinari VForce4 block.

Would think this will put it somewhere over 40 bhp. Going to be pretty exciting. If not annoyingly noisy in the induction department.


38mm carb is huge

Dirty little scooter


Been burning gear oil for a while

Welcome to the dark side. Expect to be at a petrol station on a regular basis

Do you have a plan in mind for the air filtration? I'm now looking around for an adapter that allows me to use the standard bellows into the frame. S&S has one for the 28/30mm carbs that use their reed block and manifold, but not the bigger ones.

is that the malossi one or is there something better? I run a 20mm PHBH and am not impressed with the malossi. a link would be great!

I’m looking forward to this thread.

https://www.scooter-and-service.de/shop/vespa-shop/engine-parts/airfilter/95/adapter-carb-air-bellow-px/pwk-28-stainless-steel?c=904

Planning to put bellows to frame and no filter. This is what will go quickest and only be running 10k miles at best before the next rebuild.

Well, great to see everyones builds going so well Mine is on hold. Some incorrectly delivered parts mean leaving it in bits for quite a while. No time to return and re-order. I am out the country for an extended period soon. At least the PX200 works. It always works!

Ah the reliability of the sensibly-tuned tourer.
Frustrating about the order let-down holding things up, but sounds like you'll have a project for Christmas holidays now.

I have a date. I know when get to go back to my side of the world This means within 2 weeks we will be hearing the Dremel whir, as my casings get a dirty great big inlet hole cut in the top to match up to the probably too big but seemed like a good idea at the time, 38mm carb.

The last of the parts arrived ages ago, so all ready. Unless I forgot something. Or she decides I didn't spend enough and wants more before she puts out.

To state the obvious, I'm back!

Braving the cold for a short period, I had to check to see the huge carb fits with the side panel on. I think it might work. Just. But without the 90 degree elbow even better.
Anyone know where I might get a snake head for this carb?

Hoping to be back on the road this time next week. Lot of grinding to do between now and then. Can’t think of a better use for the time

That looks familiar Jack. Is that the MRP or MMW reed block? Can't help re: the Snakehead, although CMD does them for a wide variety of carbs. Works well on my PWK.

Not sure if the top of the body and thread is the same as the 34?

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/caburator-top-cap-cmd-snakehead-dellorto-vhsa34/vhsb34-cmdsh0014?number=CMDSH0014

Yep, seems like it is the same part for the big VHSBs:

https://www.360projectgarage.it/coperchio-carburatore-cmd-snake-head-per-vhsb-vhsa-34-36-37-38mm.html

Nice.