Piaggio mp3 500 hpe engine oil use?
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Hooked
Gilera Runner 500cc.
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 147
Location: Netherlands
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:21 am quote
As some of you may know, i am building the Gilera Runner 500cc.
The bike where i take the engine out is a 2008 Piaggio Beverly cruiser 493cc twinspark.
Has only run 3200KM.

Now i found that the 2008 engines had a batch of bad pistons, that could destroy the whole engine.
Mine engine could have that piston to...
Thats a risk i dont want to take, and therefore want to install an new cylinder and piston set.

If i order a complete set for my Beverly engine, i get a alloy cylinder with nicasil wall.

I can also order the set of a 2019 Piaggio Beverly 500 HPE engine.
This has a cast iron cylinder, and i have more faith in that.
Also for future tuning of the engine.

The old engine with alloy cylinder could use oil, and some oil comes out of the airfilter.
Is that problem completely solved with the new HPE engine with cast iron cylinder?

Last edited by Arnoh on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 262
Location: Belgium
Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:59 am quote
Speaking as a car mechanic, nicasyl is misery. Ask any BMW or Jaguar owner

For the MP3, I use Eni i-Ride 5W-40 oil exclusively and use exactly 1.5 liters at each oil service. My 2015 MP3 burns zero oil and the air filter box stays clean. These engines benefit from regular oil+filter changes, max 5000km intervals.

I think the HPE piston is the same as the later years ie motors. The difference with the HPE is in the head (roller rockers, etc.) and a ECU tune.

If I were you, I'd use a piston and cylinder jug from a late 500ie vintage such as my 2015 which IIRC is the last year before the Euro4 crap creeped in.

If you are interested in tuning by way of a cam and other mods, your only choice is the earlier 500ie engine as the Euro4 engine are as of yet not really tuneable.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4207
Location: Netherlands Olst
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:19 am quote
got the new ones in stock


en ja ik volg je projectje op Motor-forum

ga binnen kort starten met een Fuoco 1000cc voor een klant
Hooked
Gilera Runner 500cc.
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 147
Location: Netherlands
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:33 am quote
The piston for the cast iron cylinder should have an ceramic top as well.
I do prefer cast iron, in my opinion the head gasket stays much better between the cylinderhead and cast iron cylinder.

I found that the head gasket is the same for all models, so the cooling channels and oil channel should fit.
The cylinderhead of a HPE engine has another part number.

I cant find why, is it the different type of cams and rollers?
Or is there some other shape in the combustion chamber?

Maksor, do you have pictures of the cylinder and piston?
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:58 am quote
With only 3200 KM, you certainly don't need a new cylinder, just a new piston and rings if you want to be safe. Your existing piston is very probably fine, though.

There are four sizes, so get the one that matches your cylinder- it will have a "A", "B" ,"C" or "D" stamped on top of it, check the top of your piston and get the same size. "A" corresponds to the part number -001, "B" corresponds to part number -002, etc.

The most important thing about the old pistons is to avoid detonation, which cracks the piston lands. It doesn't blow the engine up unless you ignore the oil loss problem for too long. The oil loss can be due to a cracked piston land, and it shows up before there is any appreciable cylinder damage.

Nikasil (or whatever coating they use) is the only choice, as far as I know. There is no such thing as a cast iron cylinder for the MASTER engine. Unless I'm totally ignorant. Did they come out with a cast iron cylinder while I wasn't looking?
Hooked
Gilera Runner 500cc.
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 147
Location: Netherlands
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 630
Location: tampa
Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:57 am quote
the hpe got higher compression piston. 10.9 to 11.5
the piston and improved airbox is where the extra power came from. ecu not likely as clean burning means less than ideal for power. thats why reflashes are good for a few hp. richen it back up for little power.

there is only one part number for cylinder head and valves.
there was a cam change in 2014. two different part numbers early and late.

do a leakdown test. leave it alone if it checks out good.

but wait. am i reading that right? 137 euro for piston a cylinder kit? can that be? its 370 usd here...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8663
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:16 pm quote
jerryd wrote:
the hpe got higher compression piston. 10.9 to 11.5
the piston and improved airbox is where the extra power came from. ecu not likely as clean burning means less than ideal for power. thats why reflashes are good for a few hp. richen it back up for little power.

there is only one part number for cylinder head and valves.
there was a cam change in 2014. two different part numbers early and late.

do a leakdown test. leave it alone if it checks out good.

but wait. am i reading that right? 137 euro for piston a cylinder kit? can that be? its 370 usd here...
I get all my high price stuff from Germany at www.motorcyclespareparts.eu
$35 shipping for anything. Just received a windshield and crash bars for my Vespa Sei Giorni. Took about 3 weeks because of the size.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 630
Location: tampa
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:17 am quote
Arnoh wrote:
The piston for the cast iron cylinder should have an ceramic top as well.
I do prefer cast iron, in my opinion the head gasket stays much better between the cylinderhead and cast iron cylinder.

I found that the head gasket is the same for all models, so the cooling channels and oil channel should fit.
The cylinderhead of a HPE engine has another part number.

I cant find why, is it the different type of cams and rollers?
Or is there some other shape in the combustion chamber?

Maksor, do you have pictures of the cylinder and piston?
the head got roller rockers. but not sure what year that change was made.

trying to confirm if cylinder kit is indeed cast iron? I ended up ordering one. but wont get it till mid january.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 262
Location: Belgium
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:42 am quote
The main diff with the HPE models is a restricted (cough clean running) ECU that is Euro4 compliant, although this will change again within the next couple of years when all bikes sold in Europe are required to be Euro5 compliant.

Tweaks by way of cam changes, valve springs, etc are not possible with the HPEs as of this writing.

For the current HPE models, beside ECU, there are roller rockers, different cams (yes there are 2 types . . . ehh Italian engineering ), air filter, and more little tweaks here and there to keep obsolesence somewhat at bay.

Considering the hefty weight of the MP3, I think Piaggio should finally come out with a true new model consisting of a larger engine such as the twin 850cc from the recently discontinued Aprilia SRV850.

I'd be the first in line to buy one.
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