MP3 HPE 500 where's the power?
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Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 590
Location: tampa
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:44 am quote
I was hoping valves got bigger so there would be a head upgrade in my future. there is no new part numbers for complete head or valves. so I would assume the only real changes are the muffler and the larger improved airbox tube. the latter being a disappointment as removing tube from early box is a very substantial and prolly gets you pretty close to that 44hp figure. and I would think the early muffler is already optimized for the engines power band, so the new twin outlet muffler may be more about fluff than an actual improvement.

anyone with some actual data? or will this thread be an opportunity for an over blown opinion fest?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:28 am quote
I've driven both types (the classic ie and the new hpe versions).

The hpe feels quicker off the line initially (up to about 50km/h or 30mph) BUT seems to run out of steam at the top.

I highly suspect that the main diff is just a slight ECU tune (probably for emissions reasons), but cannot verify this.

My butt dyno says that a Malossi cam in the ie does more throughout the entire powerband than the hpe.
Hooked
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 117
Location: Florida
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:04 am quote
sbaert wrote:
I've driven both types (the classic ie and the new hpe versions).

The hpe feels quicker off the line initially (up to about 50km/h or 30mph) BUT seems to run out of steam at the top.

I highly suspect that the main diff is just a slight ECU tune (probably for emissions reasons), but cannot verify this.

My butt dyno says that a Malossi cam in the ie does more throughout the entire powerband than the hpe.
Interesting. Do you currently have the Malossi cam in your set up? If so, what other modifications were needed to use the cam? In the US, we don't have much intel on this as no one modifies these motors.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:00 pm quote
I bought my MP3 used in the very beginning of 2016, but it had only 15 miles (24km) on the clock, and already had the cam installed so I've never experienced a stock ie MP3.

The only mods I have done is a Akrapovic slip on exhaust (without catalyst), and 23 gram rollers (4X21gr blue rollers and 4X25gr black rollers staggered).

It does have a bunch of other trinkets, but those are rather aesthetic in nature, such as the 2018 and up LED blinkers, gel seat, Bitubo adjustable shocks, etc, etc, etc.

The only reason I test drove the hpe version is because I was considering getting it for the reverse gear feature, but the price is not worth it IMO.
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 277
Location: West Germany
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:23 am quote
sbaert wrote:
I bought my MP3 used in the very beginning of 2016, but it had only 15 miles (24km) on the clock, and already had the cam installed so I've never experienced a stock ie MP3.

The only mods I have done is a Akrapovic slip on exhaust (without catalyst), and 23 gram rollers (4X21gr blue rollers and 4X25gr black rollers staggered).

It does have a bunch of other trinkets, but those are rather aesthetic in nature, such as the 2018 and up LED blinkers, gel seat, Bitubo adjustable shocks, etc, etc, etc.

The only reason I test drove the hpe version is because I was considering getting it for the reverse gear feature, but the price is not worth it IMO.
I have an Hpe Advanced and I will admit that Topend is a bit disappointing,but Takeoff is a blast and handling in the curves is WOW! I mainly got the Advanced Modell to help me back that heavy girl on an incline .
Hooked
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 117
Location: Florida
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:36 am quote
sbaert wrote:
I bought my MP3 used in the very beginning of 2016, but it had only 15 miles (24km) on the clock, and already had the cam installed so I've never experienced a stock ie MP3.

The only mods I have done is a Akrapovic slip on exhaust (without catalyst), and 23 gram rollers (4X21gr blue rollers and 4X25gr black rollers staggered).

It does have a bunch of other trinkets, but those are rather aesthetic in nature, such as the 2018 and up LED blinkers, gel seat, Bitubo adjustable shocks, etc, etc, etc.

The only reason I test drove the hpe version is because I was considering getting it for the reverse gear feature, but the price is not worth it IMO.
Oh, wow. Only 15miles and already was torn apart to install the cam? Sounds like no time was wasted.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4172
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:24 am quote
its serveral things another airfilter different tune and a different drive by wire system

and no you can't put the new tune on a older ECU
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:02 am quote
Scarabeo500ie wrote:
...

Oh, wow. Only 15miles and already was torn apart to install the cam? Sounds like no time was wasted.
Well, that was the 1st owner's doing. He paid about 12.5K Euro for a bunch of add on stuff at time of purchase such as Piaggio alarm, Piaggio top case and mount, Piaggio tall windscreen, Piaggio handle bar covers, Piaggio GPS mount with TomTom Rider and integrated charging dock, PMP system, aluminum floor boards, heated grips, winter blanket, heating element for winter blanket, bike cover, etc, etc, etc.

Funny thing is he never got around to really using it, but he was a Vespa collector with numerous toys. The MP3 was like the round pig in a square hole to him, didn't really fit in for him, and he admitted it was a impulse buy. I came along about 7 months later in the midst of winter, and saved nearly 5K.

And some of those accessories such as the winter blanket, bike cover, etc. I have never used. Tried the blanket once, didn't like it. Felt claustrophobic. I freak out if I can't put my feet down. I never use the tilt lock mechanism either other when parking it short term. But maybe those are just mental scars from decades of riding "conventional".
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2780
Location: East Anglia, The power house of the UK
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:09 pm quote
Sounds like a really really good bargain! Well done!
Member
Piaggio MP3 HPE Sport ABS-ASR
Joined: 25 Oct 2019
Posts: 20
Location: Paris, France
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:39 am quote
sbaert wrote:
Scarabeo500ie wrote:
...

Oh, wow. Only 15miles and already was torn apart to install the cam? Sounds like no time was wasted.
Well, that was the 1st owner's doing. He paid about 12.5K Euro for a bunch of add on stuff at time of purchase such as Piaggio alarm, Piaggio top case and mount, Piaggio tall windscreen, Piaggio handle bar covers, Piaggio GPS mount with TomTom Rider and integrated charging dock, PMP system, aluminum floor boards, heated grips, winter blanket, heating element for winter blanket, bike cover, etc, etc, etc.

Funny thing is he never got around to really using it, but he was a Vespa collector with numerous toys. The MP3 was like the round pig in a square hole to him, didn't really fit in for him, and he admitted it was a impulse buy. I came along about 7 months later in the midst of winter, and saved nearly 5K.

And some of those accessories such as the winter blanket, bike cover, etc. I have never used. Tried the blanket once, didn't like it. Felt claustrophobic. I freak out if I can't put my feet down. I never use the tilt lock mechanism either other when parking it short term. But maybe those are just mental scars from decades of riding "conventional".
Is that a winter heated blanket that goes under the `tablier` ? I ride a lot in the cold.. I immagine it would be usefull. Do you have a picture with that? how do you mount it? How to you connect it to the dash buttons?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:58 am quote
It is a heating pad that attaches to the inside of the Piaggio cover. Can't say if it would work for other covers. However, I never use this thing. I tried it once, and felt trapped and claustrophobic. I want to put my feet down when stopped. Probably mentally scarred from too many decades riding.

It is electrically connected to the harness used for the (optional) heated grips. You have to remove the plastics around the handlebars to install the harness. It's a medium difficulty install. Just requires some time. The hardest part is routing the plug for the blanket to the rear of the fairing where the coolant expansion tank sits.

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Hooked
2019 MP3 500hpe Sport
Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 464
Location: Germany
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:29 am quote
I can't say since i went from a 400 to this 500hpe. I am looking to put new Dr. P rollers in next year and an Akripovic muffler on more for the looks side, but that is all I plan on doing at this time. What is a good weight for the Dr. P rollers on the new motor?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:37 am quote
I haven't taken apart the vario on a HPE model, but I am pretty sure they use the standard 25gram pieces like on the previous 500ie.

On mine, I use 4x25gram units (black) with 4x21gram units (blue) for an average weight of 23gram.

You can probably even go one size for an average weight of 21gram, but you'll be turning a bit more revs and burning more fuel.

23grams seems to be the happy medium
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4172
Location: Netherlands Olst
Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 am quote
wenn du viel autobahn fahrst 23 gr
Hooked
2019 MP3 500hpe Sport
Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 464
Location: Germany
Wed Dec 25, 2019 11:52 pm quote
I don't spend a lot of time on the autobahn, too boring, but I would like a little more pep like my 400 had with Dr. P rollers. I do more spirited back road riding. I will probably take your suggestion of 23 and go from there.
Ossessionato
2020 MP3 Sport 500 HPE ABS ASR
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 4079
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra SeŮora Reina de los Ńngeles sobre el RŪo Porciķncula
Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:27 pm quote
I have a 2020 MP3 500 HPE. Earlier this year, I had a 2019 MP3 500 IE for several months (2200 miles). Prior to that I rode an MP3 400 for 11 years. I had an MP3 250 before that. So I think I can make a good comparison.

The 2019 had noticeably more power than the 400. When it was set to ECO mode, it felt just about the same as the 400.

The 2020 HPE has noticeably more power than the 2019 IE. I definitely feel this in the mid-range. I especially felt this after it passed 1200 miles.

There is a 15 percent rated horsepower increase in each step up.

So, for me at least, the power is there.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:29 am quote
When comparing 500IE to 500HPE, the HPE feels definitely faster in the initial sprint from 0-50kmh (30mph).

Mid range the HPE has a slight lead, BUT beyond 6K rpm it feels like the HPE is running out of breath while the IE still is pulling until about 7500. Of course, my IE has a Malossi cam so my results/opinions may be a bit off vs. stock 500IE.

Probably safe to say the ECU on the HPE got strangled to meet Euro4 emissions. And it isn't gonna get any better since all bikes need to be Euro5 compliant starting Jan 1, 2021
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8511
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:16 am quote
sbaert wrote:
When comparing 500IE to 500HPE, the HPE feels definitely faster in the initial sprint from 0-50kmh (30mph).

Mid range the HPE has a slight lead, BUT beyond 6K rpm it feels like the HPE is running out of breath while the IE still is pulling until about 7500. Of course, my IE has a Malossi cam so my results/opinions may be a bit off vs. stock 500IE.

Probably safe to say the ECU on the HPE got strangled to meet Euro4 emissions. And it isn't gonna get any better since all bikes need to be Euro5 compliant starting Jan 1, 2021
Yes strangled at 15% more power than the year before. Wait, what?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:47 am quote
That 15% figure applies to the 300cc engines as used in the Vespa GTS HPE.

Per the Piaggio brochure, the 2015 MP3 500ie (like mine) in stock trim delivers 40 ponies @ 7250 rpm, with 45.5Nm of torque at 5250 rpm


The 2020 MP3 500HPE delivers 44 ponies @7750rpm, with 47.5Nm torque @ 5500rpm

https://www.piaggio.com/en_EN/models/mp3-range/new-piaggio-mp3/piaggio-mp3-sport-500hpe-abs-asr/

On the HPE version of the MP3, it is at best a slight power bump of no more than 10% peak if even that with the extra power only being delivered at the very top end.

On the torque side of things, it's pretty much a draw with the ie model delivering its peak torque 250rpm sooner.

Mine with the Malossi cam and Akrapovic exhaust probably sits at around 45 ponies.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 590
Location: tampa
Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:07 am quote
the info I was looking for was what hard parts were changed to make the extra power. I concluded it was three things

camshaft was changed (hpe cam is inexpensive)

cylinder compression changed from 10.9 to 11.5

airbox got a much bigger restrictor tube

cylinder head has two part numbers in Europe but one in usa. valves have not changed

reported hpe engine got roller rockers. but that was mis advertising as there are no new numbers for rockers and rocker shafts
Ossessionato
2020 MP3 Sport 500 HPE ABS ASR
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 4079
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra SeŮora Reina de los Ńngeles sobre el RŪo Porciķncula
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:38 am quote
In the USA, the 2019 MP3 500 IE delivers 38.8 horsepower at 7250 rpm and 33.6 foot-pounds torque at 5000 rpm.

The 2020 MP3 500 HPE delivers 44.2 horsepower at 7750 rpm and 35 pound-feet torque at 5500 rpm.

That's a 14 percent increase in horsepower, and a 4 percent increase in torque.

As far as the torque curve goes, 5000 - 5500 rpm is a good place for the maximum, as that's where the MP3 500 seems to live.

All that said, I really have felt a difference between the two.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:20 am quote
I'm starting to suspect that we are dealing with different horsepower ratings.

Namely, SAE vs. metric ratings. Same hell as inch vs. centimeter. Why can't you US fellas for once follow the world when it comes to weights and measures?

So being a Italian bike, let's specify Euro ratings only to keep things uniform.

on my 2015 Euro spec MP3 500ie the ratings are
29.5 kW @ 7250 rpm and 45.5 Nm @ 5250 rpm

On a 2019 Euro spec MP3 500Hpe the ratings are
32.5 kW @ 7750 rpm and 47.5 Nm @ 5500 rpm

That still equates as a 10% differential at best on the horsepower front when comparing a Euro spec 500ie vs. Euro spec 500Hpe

Interestingly, as of this writing the US Piaggio website lists the MP3 500 US spec ratings as
28.5 kW @ 7250rpm and 45.5 Nm @ 5000 rpm

https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/models/mp3-range/piaggio-mp3-sport/piaggio-mp3-sport-500hpe/

That is even slightly lower than the old Euro spec 500ie motor. That has got to be related to emissions equipment such as the US mandated evaporative emissions crap that the Euro spec bikes never got. Perhaps also lower compression heads or ECU tune to deal with the lower grade US fuels. Another place where the US is the lone wolf with their (R+M)/2 vs. the world accepted RON standard.

Last edited by sbaert on Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
2020 MP3 Sport 500 HPE ABS ASR
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 4079
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra SeŮora Reina de los Ńngeles sobre el RŪo Porciķncula
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:45 am quote
sbaert wrote:
I'm starting to suspect that we are dealing with different horsepower ratings.
I seem to remember this happening before.

Anyway, my seat-of-the pants report still stands. I felt a significant power increase going from my MP3 400 to my MP3 500 IE to my MP3 500 HPE.

Now let's get on to more important things: How many angels did we say were dancing on that pin? And were they US angels or Euro angels?
Lurker
Scarabeo 500ie
Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 2
Location: SoCal low desert
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:28 pm quote
Newb here but Iíll address a couple things in this string.
I ride a Beo 500ie, and I installed the Malossi cam at about 5000 miles, and love it. The response if great. Now mind you Iíve also gone down from 21g rollers to 16 g,( Iím a big guy), added a Mivv exhaust, opened up the airbox intake from 19mm to 27mm, run with only Malossi foam filters, iridium plugs, soon to be Brisk brand.

I have the Tucano Urbano leg cover and you can put your feet down, the taper is perfect, unless I suppose youíre a REALLY tall person with ITTY feet...but that doesnít happen in nature.

Iím looking to go with the CVT-fr4 variatior next and that should be it, balls to the wall, wrist twisted!
Hooked
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 117
Location: Florida
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:10 am quote
Brady18 wrote:
Newb here but Iíll address a couple things in this string.
I ride a Beo 500ie, and I installed the Malossi cam at about 5000 miles, and love it. The response if great. Now mind you Iíve also gone down from 21g rollers to 16 g,( Iím a big guy), added a Mivv exhaust, opened up the airbox intake from 19mm to 27mm, run with only Malossi foam filters, iridium plugs, soon to be Brisk brand.

I have the Tucano Urbano leg cover and you can put your feet down, the taper is perfect, unless I suppose youíre a REALLY tall person with ITTY feet...but that doesnít happen in nature.

Iím looking to go with the CVT-fr4 variatior next and that should be it, balls to the wall, wrist twisted!
Good to see someone else with a Beo 500. I, too have a Beo 500 with some tasteful mods done and was also looking to do the Malossi cam. Have you done anything tuning related to the ECU? I'm also planning to do the MP3 cylinder kit w/piston to bring my CC up to the 492cc range, but haven't found much information tuning wise.

EDIT: Just realize I replied to your tuning thread on Aprilia forums. Haha!
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 277
Location: West Germany
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:34 am quote
sbaert wrote:
I'm starting to suspect that we are dealing with different horsepower ratings.

Namely, SAE vs. metric ratings. Same hell as inch vs. centimeter. Why can't you US fellas for once follow the world when it comes to weights and measures?

So being a Italian bike, let's specify Euro ratings only to keep things uniform.

on my 2015 Euro spec MP3 500ie the ratings are
29.5 kW @ 7250 rpm and 45.5 Nm @ 5250 rpm

On a 2019 Euro spec MP3 500Hpe the ratings are
32.5 kW @ 7750 rpm and 47.5 Nm @ 5500 rpm

That still equates as a 10% differential at best on the horsepower front when comparing a Euro spec 500ie vs. Euro spec 500Hpe

Interestingly, as of this writing the US Piaggio website lists the MP3 500 US spec ratings as
28.5 kW @ 7250rpm and 45.5 Nm @ 5000 rpm

https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/models/mp3-range/piaggio-mp3-sport/piaggio-mp3-sport-500hpe/

That is even slightly lower than the old Euro spec 500ie motor. That has got to be related to emissions equipment such as the US mandated evaporative emissions crap that the Euro spec bikes never got. Perhaps also lower compression heads or ECU tune to deal with the lower grade US fuels. Another place where the US is the lone wolf with their (R+M)/2 vs. the world accepted RON standard.
Because we are By God Americans and proud of it
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 211
Location: Belgium
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:48 am quote
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
...Because we are By God Americans and proud of it
That reads like German English
Hooked
2019 MP3 hpe 500 sport Advanced " Missy "
Joined: 21 Dec 2018
Posts: 277
Location: West Germany
Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:32 pm quote
sbaert wrote:
Hillbilly Fred wrote:
...Because we are By God Americans and proud of it
That reads like German English
Hooked
Gilera Runner 500cc.
Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 126
Location: Netherlands
Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:00 am quote
Brady18 wrote:
Newb here but Iíll address a couple things in this string.
I ride a Beo 500ie, and I installed the Malossi cam at about 5000 miles, and love it. The response if great. Now mind you Iíve also gone down from 21g rollers to 16 g,( Iím a big guy), added a Mivv exhaust, opened up the airbox intake from 19mm to 27mm, run with only Malossi foam filters, iridium plugs, soon to be Brisk brand.

I have the Tucano Urbano leg cover and you can put your feet down, the taper is perfect, unless I suppose youíre a REALLY tall person with ITTY feet...but that doesnít happen in nature.

Iím looking to go with the CVT-fr4 variatior next and that should be it, balls to the wall, wrist twisted!
After installing the Malossi cam, any run in procedures?
And do the valves make more noise now?
And do they wear faster?
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4172
Location: Netherlands Olst
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:46 pm quote
no the cam will wear faster it isn't as hard as a sstock one mine lasted 15.000km
Lurker
Scarabeo 500ie
Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 2
Location: SoCal low desert
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:40 pm quote
You know I havenít thought/wanted to do open heart surgery again, so I havenít checked the camshaft for wear, it didnít enter my mind. Malossi Products have always lasted longer than stock for me so far.
No run-in was specified by the maker.
My MPG went down but my take off MPH went up, so Iím happy.
Iím not looking to pass cars on the freeway, just get the hell out of the tourists way while going about my daily life!
Hooked
Aprilia Scarabeo 500
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 117
Location: Florida
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:35 am quote
Brady18 wrote:
You know I havenít thought/wanted to do open heart surgery again, so I havenít checked the camshaft for wear, it didnít enter my mind. Malossi Products have always lasted longer than stock for me so far.
No run-in was specified by the maker.
My MPG went down but my take off MPH went up, so Iím happy.
Iím not looking to pass cars on the freeway, just get the hell out of the tourists way while going about my daily life!
My Malossi cam came in a couple weeks ago. My open heart surgery will begin pretty soon. Looking forward to seeing some gains from the piston/cylinder kit as well.
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