GTS Knocked Over...Now Won't Start
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Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:34 am quote
If the canister is full, the scoot' won't start.
Thanks for the explanation, I'm a westerner and tend to "sugarcoat" my messages a bit more.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8291
Location: New Hampshire
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:33 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
If the canister is full, the scoot' won't start.
Thanks for the explanation, I'm a westerner and tend to "sugarcoat" my messages a bit more.
Yes, true, but before a full canister is an issue, the engine has to crank over and fire.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:15 pm quote
The canister fills when the scoot' is on its side.
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:11 pm quote
SCTLVR wrote:
The evap container is full of fuel. Drain it or wait a long time for the fuel to evaporate.
I'll try anything. Where is this located?
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:12 pm quote
My BV350 did had this problem when my daughter dropped it at a stop.
Use Google or your manual to find the charcoal canister. It has gas in it, probably. If you wait long enough the fuel will likely evaporate, unless there's too much in which case it will turn to turpentine.
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:01 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
My BV350 did had this problem when my daughter dropped it at a stop.
Use Google or your manual to find the charcoal canister. It has gas in it, probably. If you wait long enough the fuel will likely evaporate, unless there's too much in which case it will turn to turpentine.
It wouldn't even turn over? I get nothing.
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 2159
Location: E. KY
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:57 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
The canister fills when the scoot' is on its side.
Mine blew over on that same side and layed there for maybe 30 minutes until we came out of our woods road to find it had blown over from a wind gust.
My wife and I carefully picked it up, then I allowed the various fluids to find their places (no leaky stuff was sen) while upright overnight, then it started as normal.
Cost= one rt side trim beading self installed and a paintless repair trip I've checked into but never gotten around too yet-that will be $250 to remove dents from engine cowl. Cover prevented scratches in the decorative rocks mine landed in.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:13 am quote
Good for you, sir!
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 2159
Location: E. KY
Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:18 am quote
"Good" back atcha...
Hooked
Vespa GTV250:: Et4 150
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:08 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
SCTLVR wrote:
My BV350 did had this problem when my daughter dropped it at a stop.
Use Google or your manual to find the charcoal canister. It has gas in it, probably. If you wait long enough the fuel will likely evaporate, unless there's too much in which case it will turn to turpentine.
It wouldn't even turn over? I get nothing.
I wonder if the battery shorted out, did you try a new battery ?
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:57 am quote
huntbchsocal wrote:
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
SCTLVR wrote:
My BV350 did had this problem when my daughter dropped it at a stop.
Use Google or your manual to find the charcoal canister. It has gas in it, probably. If you wait long enough the fuel will likely evaporate, unless there's too much in which case it will turn to turpentine.
It wouldn't even turn over? I get nothing.
I wonder if the battery shorted out, did you try a new battery ?
All electrical functions working fine. Hopefully today will be the day I finally get at it.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8511
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:17 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
The evap container is full of fuel. Drain it or wait a long time for the fuel to evaporate.
You can let a full fuel canister sit for a year and it will still be full unless you empty it first. And then it still needs air flow to evaporate what is left in the charcoal.
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:08 pm quote
Today took the headset off and tried jumping the starter switch and the kill switch, still nothing.
Was going to take out the EVAP, but that's on the left side, the bike fell on its right side, how could the gas flow up?
Finally gave up and hauled it down to Philly Scooters.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11314
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:52 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Today took the headset off and tried jumping the starter switch and the kill switch, still nothing.
Was going to take out the EVAP, but that's on the left side, the bike fell on its right side, how could the gas flow up?
You said the starter won't turn over. There is nothing in the EVAP system which would cause that. The rollover valve interrupts fuel flow.
Hooked
Vespa GTV250:: Et4 150
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 237
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:10 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Today took the headset off and tried jumping the starter switch and the kill switch, still nothing.
Was going to take out the EVAP, but that's on the left side, the bike fell on its right side, how could the gas flow up?
Finally gave up and hauled it down to Philly Scooters.
Fingers crossed it is an easy and inexpensive fix !
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:00 pm quote
huntbchsocal wrote:
Fingers crossed it is an easy and inexpensive fix !
Thanks!
Hooked
300 GTS, Stella 4T
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 253
Location: EPX
Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:57 pm quote
Turns out a few taps on the tip sensor and it started. Going to install a new one. One thing I dislike about most tech and safety features. One more thing to break.
Addicted
2006 GT200L "Lone Star"-Sold, 2006 Yamaha Majesty YP400
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 635
Location: Texas
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:33 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Turns out a few taps on the tip sensor and it started. Going to install a new one. One thing I dislike about most tech and safety features. One more thing to break.
Mikey 007 wins the Remote Diagnosis Tricorder prize!
Lurker
2012 Vespa GTS 3000ie
Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:53 am quote
Hello, everyone.

I'm glad that you managed to resolve this issue.

The same thing happened to me over the weekend. Scoot tipped over and I've been trying to troubleshoot it ever since. I'm told my 2012 Vespa GTS 300ie doesn't have a tip sensor so that confuses me.

Every time I hit the ignition button, I get a buzz from the starter relay. From my research, that could mean a weak/faulty battery, faulty starter relay or a starter motor. The dealer mechanic had told me it's unlikely a fall could cause any of these. The engine was still running when my sister dropped it on the right side. I checked my sister first if she was hurt but she was okay. I turned off the scoot with the kill switch before picking it back up. Then it wouldn't start.

I've checked all the fuses in the glove compartment, checked connections of the battery terminals, checked the prephase and starter relay. From researching, I thought my scoot was flooded so I reseated my spark plug and checked my air filter and the bubbles - clean. I want to check the EVAP but it's all tucked in. I've checked brake lever connections which I'm told has switches to start the engine. Checked the connection of my kill switch and ignition switch - seems good. I've tried starting up with the right brake lever pulled, left brake lever pulled and both brake levers pulled with no luck. As per manual LED codes, LED lights up once and goes away - engine can be started. I've used the program key as well. LED lights up, turns off, two quick flashes and then goes away - engine can be started.

So, I'm down to electrical. I'm gonna borrow a friend's multitester later today and will check my battery and relay switch.

Any opinions from anyone's experience would be greatly appreciated. I posted because I was hoping that if I could find the tip sensor, I could give that a go and hopefully that would also solve my problems. Thanks in advance.

Yes, I'm a lurker. I lurk a lot.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8443
Location: KS USA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:39 am quote
SCTLVR wrote:
The evap container is full of fuel. Drain it or wait a long time for the fuel to evaporate.
The evaporation system on the GTS is on the left. It's not likely that it is the culprit.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38592
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:30 pm quote
errolyo wrote:
Hello, everyone.

I'm glad that you managed to resolve this issue.

The same thing happened to me over the weekend. Scoot tipped over and I've been trying to troubleshoot it ever since. I'm told my 2012 Vespa GTS 300ie doesn't have a tip sensor so that confuses me.

Every time I hit the ignition button, I get a buzz from the starter relay. From my research, that could mean a weak/faulty battery, faulty starter relay or a starter motor. The dealer mechanic had told me it's unlikely a fall could cause any of these.
It is absolutely a weak battery if the starter relay buzzes.
Quote:
The engine was still running when my sister dropped it on the right side. I checked my sister first if she was hurt but she was okay. I turned off the scoot with the kill switch before picking it back up. Then it wouldn't start.
Did you turn it off at the ignition as well?
Quote:
I've checked all the fuses in the glove compartment, checked connections of the battery terminals, checked the prephase and starter relay. From researching, I thought my scoot was flooded so I reseated my spark plug and checked my air filter and the bubbles - clean. I want to check the EVAP but it's all tucked in. I've checked brake lever connections which I'm told has switches to start the engine. Checked the connection of my kill switch and ignition switch - seems good. I've tried starting up with the right brake lever pulled, left brake lever pulled and both brake levers pulled with no luck. As per manual LED codes, LED lights up once and goes away - engine can be started. I've used the program key as well. LED lights up, turns off, two quick flashes and then goes away - engine can be started.

So, I'm down to electrical. I'm gonna borrow a friend's multitester later today and will check my battery and relay switch.

Any opinions from anyone's experience would be greatly appreciated. I posted because I was hoping that if I could find the tip sensor, I could give that a go and hopefully that would also solve my problems. Thanks in advance.

Yes, I'm a lurker. I lurk a lot.
With a weak battery it won't start even if you can get it to turn over.

Fully charge the battery, then take it to get load tested. If it was near its end-of-life and then left switched on (even with kill-switch off) then it would have become fully discharged, and, frankly, finally finished off.

If it's more than three years old it doesn't owe you anything anyway, so at this cold time of year it'd be doing the scoot a favour by buying a new battery.
Lurker
2012 Vespa GTS 3000ie
Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:19 pm quote
Thank you for your insight.

From what I remember, after the scoot fell, I turned off the engine using the kill switch, picked it up then turned off the ignition key. I tried starting it again after a few seconds then the buzzing started happening.

I hope it's just the battery because that'd be an easy fix without me taking it to the mechanic. I'll do load test either tonight or tomorrow once I get my hands on a multitester. But right now, I'm leaning towards your advice about replacing the battery. I bought this used about two years ago and frankly, I don't know the age of this battery, so that must be it. Do I need to fully charge the battery first before testing it?

I'll update any progress and post whatever solution I come up with.

Thanks!
Addicted
2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his), 2012 Kymco Downtown 200
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Location: Vermont
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:48 pm quote
You can't load test a battery with a multimeter. You need to take the battery to a shop (auto, motorcycle, battery dealer like Interstate) and they will put the battery on a machine that will put a load on the battery and measure battery output while under load.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38592
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:47 pm quote
And yes, it does need to be fully charged before testing!

I've also had batteries that load tested fine, could always start a bike within 24 hrs of last being used, but by the time 48 hrs had passed they had self-discharged to useless.

So an older battery may just self-discharge far too quickly (usually due to sulphation) to be a reliable one.
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1440
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:31 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Turns out a few taps on the tip sensor and it started. Going to install a new one. One thing I dislike about most tech and safety features. One more thing to break.
Great news! Congrats!
Lurker
2012 Vespa GTS 3000ie
Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 3
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:42 pm quote
Yes, you're right. That makes sense. On to the shop.
Addicted
2013 GTS 300ie
Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 609
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:19 pm quote
Big Daddy SnakeOiler wrote:
Turns out a few taps on the tip sensor and it started. Going to install a new one. One thing I dislike about most tech and safety features. One more thing to break.
I didn't know they made a Feinting Goat model of tip sensor!
Glad it's fixed.
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