Stella 2T highway/performance upgrades
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Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:12 am quote
New rear shock ready to go. Original owner installed bitubo shocks with no spacer. I decided to try a 52.5mm spacer to see if I could get a little more clearance on the road xl exhaust on turns and bumps.

New clutch installed. Just need to grind the rib in the lid of case to fit clutch which just barely scrapes at the corner of the rib. V oodoo gave me the tip to sand down the woodruff key to get a nice and snug fit while not needing to use too much force to get it in. I'm loving not having to deal with the stupid castle nut now!

Btw, harbor freight transmission lift I got makes working on the frame so much more comfortable!

22 degrees f in garage last night and this morning before work so process is crawling. Tried to get it all buttoned up and in frame before tomorrow when family comes to visit for a week cause my work schedule really kicks in after that with March madness coming up which means another month, but couldn't get it done in the cold. So sick of freezing weather preventing me from finishing this damn thing. Normally love the winter, but not this one while I'm trying to do this project. I need to get all these Vespa builds done in the summer from now on!

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Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:13 pm quote
Out of work early today so I headed to the garage to get everything on the engine itself ready to install into frame for whenever that is over the next month or so.

Ground out the clutch cover to fit the BGM superstrong clutch.

Installed the float bowl spacer, but I actually did not cut the second gasket like Hibbert did, I installed both gaskets with the spacer in a sandwich above the float and was ok with the amount of space between float and bottom of the 2 gaskets and that it won't interfere with the float operation. I also was happy with the depth of screws being able to hold the float top section on above the spacer. Maybe my carb had slightly longer screws than Hibberts? Either way, I did not have to modify either screws or gasket, so its all installed with minimal thought.

I found it strange that my DRT modified dell'orto/spaco 24/24 carb came with 190/be4/116 MJ stack. That seems really lean to me, but maybe I'm wrong. It also came with 50/120 idle, which is exactly what I was planning on starting with on my setup. My initial jetting hopefully super rich on all ends is 50/120 with a 120/be4/145 MJ.

Finally, I had always left the rear airbox plug off when working on jetting in the past, but tried to put it on when done. This new 24/24 carb has a longer air mix screw with hex head sticking out the air box. I tested it with the crappy plastic screw plugs for LML air box and there is not enough internal depth to the plastic screw plug for it to screw into the air box hole with that new air mixer screw sticking out. So I will have to leave the rear air box hole open permanently. I have always wondered if this was a bad thing and should be closed to keep dirty air out? Do most of you run with this hole open permanently?

Another long wait driving me insane before I can finally hear this thing run!

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rear airbox hole will remain open permanently. I have to take the air mix screw out to get carb in and out, which I can foresee being a PIA potentially dropping it or the spring.

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and there it is.. finally back together 7 months later! Slowest engine rebuild ever.

Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1195
Location: california
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:39 pm quote
Swiss - couple of quick ones.
1. Been down the road with the BGM super strong, would share the following.
- The clutch is kick ass. Great choice.
It is also unreasonably large.
- I don't know how anyone grinds a cover to fit. I tried for a week with 3 different covers - eventually cutting through the cover. It still contacted.
- Whodat took mercy - sent me a spacer he had water jet cut - saved my sanity.

PM me with an address and I will ship you the one Whodat sent me if you want it. (editors note - take it.)

2. Jetting. Jack just posted on Hibbert's thread: BE4 isn't big enough for your 145 jet. Need BE3. See recent Jack posting on Hibbert's thread.

3. I put a 24/24 on mine, DRT modified... and that mix screw poked out the back like yours - so I gave it very, very, careful consideration for about 5 minutes - the first four minutes and 50 seconds of which was used for drinking a beer - before I cut it in half to remove the length. Then I cut a slot in it so I could use a screwdriver. Works great. Thing is solid brass - not hollow.

Lengthening that thing to go through the airbox hole was the second dumbest idea ever conceived at the Piaggio factory - only behind the DC version of the brake light switch. When you get there - let us know - 'cause it is close to un-wireable and will disintegrate in your hands as you hold it.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1958
Location: London UK
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:31 am quote
Seems all under control here. Keep at it. Can't be long now
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:50 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss - couple of quick ones.
1. Been down the road with the BGM super strong, would share the following.
- The clutch is kick ass. Great choice.
It is also unreasonably large.
- I don't know how anyone grinds a cover to fit. I tried for a week with 3 different covers - eventually cutting through the cover. It still contacted.
- Whodat took mercy - sent me a spacer he had water jet cut - saved my sanity.

PM me with an address and I will ship you the one Whodat sent me if you want it. (editors note - take it.)

2. Jetting. Jack just posted on Hibbert's thread: BE4 isn't big enough for your 145 jet. Need BE3. See recent Jack posting on Hibbert's thread.

3. I put a 24/24 on mine, DRT modified... and that mix screw poked out the back like yours - so I gave it very, very, careful consideration for about 5 minutes - the first four minutes and 50 seconds of which was used for drinking a beer - before I cut it in half to remove the length. Then I cut a slot in it so I could use a screwdriver. Works great. Thing is solid brass - not hollow.

Lengthening that thing to go through the airbox hole was the second dumbest idea ever conceived at the Piaggio factory - only behind the DC version of the brake light switch. When you get there - let us know - 'cause it is close to un-wireable and will disintegrate in your hands as you hold it.
Yeah I don't know, maybe something to do with LML case and cover, or maybe it's the newer bgm superstrong 2.0 clutch and you have the original one? But it only took a quick grind of a small section of the cover to fit. I installed it all afterwards and kicked over the engine and it moves freely without any contact. So I appreciate the offer, but I don't think I need what whodat sent you. If I ever notice any issue with it I'll be in touch about it.

I'll have to look back to Jack's feedback to hibbert about be4 and modify jetting accordingly. Thanks for tip regrading air mix screw, I'll definitely do the same!

Jack seems satisfied with your suggestions so I'll take that as confirmation I'm headed in the right direction!

So close I can taste it! Or rather, smell and hear it!
Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 361
Location: Cornwall UK
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:40 am quote
Nearly ready to fire her up and start jetting, Swiss. I felt justified delaying mine whilst the California chaps got on with theirs, but if you're getting into it in NY, it's time I got going too. Easier with the older (Piaggio?) shape airbox, but with carb studs and sleeve-bolts, the problem with the mix screw is overcome by cutting a slot (so it doesn't need removing when shortened and slotted), and I then used a bit of filter material to block it but still allow adjustment:

carb box slot and filter for mix screw - R1.jpg

Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:17 am quote
sime66 wrote:
Nearly ready to fire her up and start jetting, Swiss. I felt justified delaying mine whilst the California chaps got on with theirs, but if you're getting into it in NY, it's time I got going too. Easier with the older (Piaggio?) shape airbox, but with carb studs and sleeve-bolts, the problem with the mix screw is overcome by cutting a slot (so it doesn't need removing when shortened and slotted), and I then used a bit of filter material to block it but still allow adjustment:
Ha! I've still got a month or so of slow maybe an hour working on it here or there to try to get it running, before I can really devote some serious time to all my scooters. Just about when I run out of work a.k.a. money for the projects! I'll definitely shorten and slot my air mix screw as all of you suggested, and by the way, your tip about cutting a foam air filter to fit around the air mix screw and block the airbox hole is genius!! I am absolutely going to use that and forgo the LML plastic plug screw. The stupid plastic screw plug that LML made is nearly impossible to install and disintegrates within a few usages. I did buy a few extra and have plans some time to make a mold and try recasting it in harder plastic to hopefully solve the problem it has where it just falls apart on slightest usage. LML must have used the cheapest materials for casting this plastic piece.

BTW, I had no idea the Honda CR-80 plates were so small width wise.. the cork pads are maybe half or slightly less than half the width of the standard clutch plates. I guess that makes for stronger grip due to more pressure on smaller area. I'm really curious how this clutch feels as I've heard from many people and read on a lot of threads how nice the cosa 2 clutch is compared to the old clutch. I need to experience it for myself cause reading it I have no idea what the difference can feel like.

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screw this POS. I'm going with your suggestion!

Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 522
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:38 am quote
Take the plug to a hardware store, maybe the threads are an off the shelf thread size in a metal plug. I'm completely missing that plug, I was wondering what it looked like. What's the part number?
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:41 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Take the plug to a hardware store, maybe the threads are an off the shelf thread size in a metal plug. I'm completely missing that plug, I was wondering what it looked like. What's the part number?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/lock+screw+carburettor+casing+_47079950
part #: C-4707995

I saw they were running low about 10 months ago and bought I think 4 of them. Like I said, I plan on duplicating them in better more durable plastic. Its at the back of my task list though. Need to get these scooters running first, cause currently I'm just a vespa parts hoarder, not an actual vespa rider. ha!
Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 307
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:45 am quote
I just put a rubber gromet plug in mine and call it done
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:20 am quote
So I went to mount the engine in frame just now and came across another stupid issue related to the sip rear shock that I bought new. One of the two goddamn mounting holes is too small from the factory. I measured the bolt at 9.84mm thick. The fly side mounting hole in the sip shock is 10mm the clutch side hole is 9mm which is. 84mm too small to get the bolt through.

If I drill this hole to appropriate thickness, is that dangerous and compromising the structural integrity of the shock? Any suggestions? Should I just drill it wider or go without this shock? Of course it's too late to exchange it as I bought it in November 3 months ago.

Edit: NVM.. checked the box and it came with two sets of mounting bolts specially designed for this shock with tapered ends that fit into the smaller hole. Just can't use standard bolts for this part number. Need to use the sip ones from now on.

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Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2448

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:03 pm quote
I've drilled the hole to a larger diameter on different shocks multiple times.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:35 pm quote
I'll do that if I need to eventually. Got two bolts from sip now. I'm sure it's some crap proprietary reasoning to get you to buy their more expensive bolts which have been unnecessarily modified. That or they think people need an additional reminder that you can't mount this shock in the other direction, which is pointless cause it won't fit the oil reserve next to engine even if you for some reason you tried. I'm going with stupid propriety decisions.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:15 pm quote
Another parts question.. this time about swapping circlip styles. The rear brake pad circlips are wire circlips that look like this:
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Brakes/61?whence=
and I am wondering if it is safe to use this type of circlip if it is the same size:
https://www.harborfreight.com/300-piece-e-clip-assortment-67653.html

I ask cause one of those rear brake pad circlips shot out into the unknown, and I had to steal one from my p200 parts ziplock bags from when I took the p200 apart. Trying to find a locally sourced circlip instead of having to order a bulk of these from elsewhere.

Engine in frame and rear hub/tire back on. Just gotta work out the fuel reserve wiring before I put the tank back in and get everything finalized before running.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1195
Location: california
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:52 pm quote
Swiss,
My $.02:
Circlip from local supply is as good or better. Wonít lose itís spring over time. Just ensure it is at least as difficult to remove as standard one.
The local one in fact should have higher unclipping resistance and is a likely upgrade.

Looks like it close!
Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 522
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:52 pm quote
Cosa 2 Clutch
I was reading in earlier posts about your switch to a cosa 2 clutch. What are your thoughts going from our factory Stella clutch to a cosa2 ckutch? Curious mostly since I plan on pulling my clutch in the next few days depending on temperature.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:54 pm quote
I did it cause my engine is tuned now and I went to a stronger clutch basket with cr80 plates. I haven't run it yet so I have no idea how differently it feels or runs. I'll let you know next week hopefully.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:02 pm quote
I am not great at electrical wiring, and am trying to decipher exactly how to connect the fuel reserve wiring to the indicator light and power/ground. I have this info from Scooter Center on how to wire it (i've changed the wire color to match the SIP wiring), but am still confused as to the order of connections...
Quote:
GREEN WIRE
The green wire is the earth wire which is also connected to the metal part of the fuel tap. If mounted to vehicles whose tank is connected with the chassis (Vespa), the green wire is automatically connected to the chassis earth.
BLUE WIRE
The blue wire shall be connected from the fuel tap to the warning light and then to the current source. The current source shall access to the same earth wire of the fuel tap (vehicle chassis).
My two current thoughts from this guidance is:

1.) join pos (+) current wire with blue wire at female spade connector which connects to reserve light positive. join ground (-) wire with green wire at female spade connector which connects to reserve light ground. This option has both the wiring from the gauge and the dc +/- connected to the bulb.. so my hunch is this is wrong, because the +/- wiring is bypassing the gauge wiring (parallel?), And will just result in permanently lit light.

2.) blue wire to reserve light positive with female spade connector that has another wire attached at same point, coming out of it which terminates at dc positive (+) tapped from headset. green wire connects to reserve light negative with female spade connector that has another wire attached at same point coming out of it, which terminates at ground (-) connection tapped from headset. My hunch is this is more right (maybe not correct) than the previous because the wiring for both connections has to go through both the fuel gauge wiring and bulb first before terminating at the bike +/- tap points, meaning the circuit isn't closed unless the gauge is at low reserve (in series?). On second thought, I think this results in essentially the same thing as option 1.

So maybe option 3:

Blue to reserve light positive by way of Spade, and coming out of Spade to DC positive tapped from headset. Green to reserve light negative and terminating there, no direct ground connection coming from bulb (this seems to be what the guidance is suggesting)

PP or anyone else who is clearly much better at wiring have any suggestions?
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2448

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:42 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss,
My $.02:
Circlip from local supply is as good or better. Wonít lose itís spring over time. Just ensure it is at least as difficult to remove as standard one.
The local one in fact should have higher unclipping resistance and is a likely upgrade.

Looks like it close!
I would agree with you that a standard circlip from a local hardware store most likely has a higher unclipping resistance, but from what i remember most of those clips are about half the thickness of the OEM wire clip. Would it make a difference?...probably not, but i'm usually a stickler for sticking with OEM fasteners. I suppose you could double up on those circlips in order to get the correct thickness needed (in order to keep the shoes seated in their exact spot). Again, probably not a big deal.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:52 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss,
My $.02:
Circlip from local supply is as good or better. Wonít lose itís spring over time. Just ensure it is at least as difficult to remove as standard one.
The local one in fact should have higher unclipping resistance and is a likely upgrade.

Looks like it close!
I would agree with you that a standard circlip from a local hardware store most likely has a higher unclipping resistance, but from what i remember most of those clips are about half the thickness of the OEM wire clip. Would it make a difference?...probably not, but i'm usually a stickler for sticking with OEM fasteners. I suppose you could double up on those circlips in order to get the correct thickness needed (in order to keep the shoes seated in their exact spot). Again, probably not a big deal.
I'm with you in that I will probably just stick with OEM clips as I'm also a stickler for OEM being appropriate option over something that might not be exactly correct thickness or resistance. I just saw that e clip kit at harbor freight the other day and it got me wondering if there is some critical reason a manufacturer would use the wire clips over the e clip or any other version of snap ring. I guess in this case it's like you said, the wire clips is thicker and the mounting stud has the appropriate thickness slot for those clips.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:05 pm quote
Oh boy.. I moved the wiring in the headset around when I loosened up the lower headset to get new control cables through. That really messed things up. I spent 3 hrs trying to get the headset top with speedo back on and fitting all the cables underneath. I still can't get it to fit as well as before, but after 3 hrs it is kinda close.. just won't sit flat right under the speedo from all the speedo wiring connections.

Any trick to making this wiring fit? I have moved every wire and connection into every nook and cranny a million different ways. Now I'm just spending days trying to put all the little parts back into the frame before I get it running like trying to get the tunnel plastic guard back in correctly underneath the cowl control arms and all cables routed through the plastic guard correctly. Lots of little PIA tasks.

Also spent an hour trying to wire the fuel reserve light as per the instructions. I couldn't get it to light, thinking it needs to be running for the light to turn on. Also the turn signals are random and stay on for long periods of time now between pulses. Not sure if I screwed some wiring up after all of this work. I'm hoping it is because I just don't have all the engine wiring connected yet. I just attached the ground to engine and left everything else disconnected.

EDIT: found this other post on wiring a bgm fuel tap with reserve light. gonna try this wiring layout tomorrow before work..
http://modernvespa.com/forum/post1708001#1708001
hojo1690 wrote:
Note, that it comes with two wires, but you will find one of them shorted to ground already. The other wire will cross to ground when the fuel level is low. So, you can just attach one wire to ground as a secondary, and run the other wire to your bulb. It will provide ground. Then just run a hot lead to the other side of the bulb.
I think this may solve my reserve light problem.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:46 am quote
Small success before heading in to work! Fuel reserve warning light works following the most recent wiring suggestions found on that old thread. Also got the tunnel plastic guard back in and cowl lever arms reinstalled. Just waiting on shifter cable plastic sheath to replace the melted one around the cylinder. Then I'll throw everything back on and finally get it running next weekend.

Also, what I noticed now that engine is back in frame is how much the rear shock spacer helped a random minor annoyance I have always had but never understood why. Ever since I got this scooter, I've always read how easy it is to remove the rear wheel when you get a flat tire and install a fully inflated spare tire on the side of the road. This was never the case with my stella... the rear tire was always such a bitch to remove, requiring me to remove the spare tire then squeeze with much force the flat tire off the hub and out of frame. It was always a tight squeeze with the tire rubbing against the side of the frame up against the back of the battery box wall. This meant that when installing a tire, I always had to deflate the tire first and really use force to jam it up in and onto the hub. Kinda a pain cause i got black tubeless rims and that shit is scratched to all hell now from this process (I know, completely stupid complaint in the grand scheme of things).

What I found was that when I removed the bitubo shock the original owner installed, he did not have any spacer between the rear shock top mount and the rubber buffer. My uncle who got it from that guy, gave me the toolbox with all spare crap the original owner gave him. In that toolbox there was a spacer that came with the bitubo shock. When I went to set up the new SIP shock, I wanted to try an extension spacer to make more clearance for the Road XL exhaust that scrapes easily. I couldn't get this bitubo extension spacer to mount properly on the piaggio rubber buffer cause the threaded end was too long for the threaded hole in the rubber buffer. I assume the original owner threw away the stock extension spacer with the original shock, and couldn't get the bitubo spacer to work same as me, so never installed it. I didn't like the way it left a quarter inch of unthreaded rod between the rubber buffer and the extension nut body. This seemed like it would break from shear forces of the shock too easily, so I ordered a Piaggio 52.5mm extension spacer which mounted perfectly when received.


Cut to this week and when I installed the engine into frame and then went to mount the rear tire onto hub, I noticed how I now had the easiest time installing the rear tire. It no longer rubbed against the frame wall and went in without any struggle! It dawned on me at that moment, the extra space provided by the extension spacer on the shock gave the tire enough clearance to finally install without any struggle! Also, now that I stepped back and took a broad look at the bike on stand I am pretty happy with the way that the extension spacer changed the profile of the rear end. The floor board is now horizontal to ground, and the rear tire is almost fully visible from the engine side, with the rear fender coming to just below the top of the rear tire whereas before, the rear fender was about just above middle of the tire and the floor board felt way lower to the ground in the back end. I also noticed at that time, the angle of the carb would be different in regards to the frame above it.. so I quickly mocked up the air box and lid to see if I could install and remove the lid as easily as before. I think this is where the compromise shows up on the other end. there is less room between rear end of air box and lid to frame.. so it will be slightly tighter fit getting the airbox lid on and off now. The frame profile before felt a little squat in the back like someone wearing too baggy and large pants, low rider style. Now it feels a little more sporty with the rear end higher and tire/engine/shock more exposed like it is ready to jump off the line. Or it's just me projecting visually what I want it to run like!

So let that be a lesson learned... no extension nut on rear shock and your tire is buried inside the frame causing issues when trying to remove and install the tire.

Another lesson learned... don't install the shifter box before mounting engine and connecting shifter cables to it!

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Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1958
Location: London UK
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:11 pm quote
You're going to notice a lot has changed when you ride again. Been quite some learning curve.

Looks like a few hours work to get that finished
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:43 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
Looks like a few hours work to get that finished
Yeah, I'm cruising along today in the garage getting all the little things done now as I wait till my hopefully last SIP order comes on friday. Happy as a pig in shit.

I sent 3 extra pos/neg cables into the glovebox for all the accessories I have in there. Get that done then move on to solving the headset closing issue.

I figured out I needed to loosen the headset again to pull the wiring harness down out of the headset a little to make room to close the headset cause when I loosened it the first time, I pulled the cables up into the headset more figuring it would be easier to get the headset on and off. That actually made it impossible to close the headset.

So I made space for the headset to close, and as I'm doing that, the patch cable previous owner spliced in to the horn and clutch switch, which I fixed when I first got it, snapped. soldering iron tip is junk so I carefully use a blowtorch to heat it up and solder. Fix that.. then as Im connecting the speedo connections I notice one connector is starting to split/fray just outside the connector so I remove the contact, heat shrink it then put it back in and connect everything. Then the splice cable I made to change the headlight to modern headlight breaks off cause I just used crimp type. So i remove that, crimp a new one on and solder it with blowtorch to make sure it wont come off this time. Close up the headset. connect the ground to engine. Turn the key. NOTHING. NO POWER AT ALL.

Ugh.

literally nothing changed except fixing connections and pulled the harness down into the tunnel more.

So i go through and try to check everything for loose and continuity check. Can't figure it out. After an hour and half of reconnecting things with no luck, the original horn/clutch switch cable breaks at the other end. Try to fix it with blowtorch but its too short so im burning the cable and not soldering. Gave up cause I gotta go to work.

Electrical is my least favorite. I am at a loss as to why this wont light up now. back of my mind im thinking i guess its time to pull the fork and remove everything and pull the harness out and replace with new, but I REALLY DONT WANT TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW! I was literally minutes away from being ready to run the engine finally..
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1195
Location: california
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:16 pm quote
Swiss - somewhere in my thread right around the time I put the LED lights in - I just abandoned the expensive pre-made harnesses and started making my own.
Home Depot sells what they call 18/8 meaning 18 gage with 8 wires in it - which is cheap and cheery. Bought 10 feet and never looked back.

The next thing I did for my sanity - was I wired the whole thing external to the bike - meaning I didn't run it in the tunnel. That way - I had it all working before I pulled it through the bike for final assembly.

You might do something similar.
Im sure that is over-simplified. - but you get the gist.
Run some wires to bypass what you have in the frame.
Start with power and ground (disconnect your power and ground at head set from proper harness).
If you have a bad ground - it will be fixed when you run a new ground.
If bad power - same.
Then track it down - or just bypass and run a new wire for that one bad one.

Total cost was about $12.00 and a drive to Home Depot.

external wire.jpg
Note the gray wire running outside the chassis (also note how nice my lovely bodge paint still was before I destroyed it - Miss that shininess!)

Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:28 pm quote
Good idea when I come to that. There are lots of connections for this thing so I'm gonna try to leave as is for now and maybe just remove the headset lower and see if some wires in there grounded or stripped for now. Hopefully it's a quick fix, although the way this has been going nothing is ever quick or simple. I was thinking yesterday the last stuff I haven't done yet on a Vespa is remove headset completely and remove the fork, replace wiring harness or hub bearings. Looks like I might have to do at least one or two of those before this is done.

Now on to getting that headset lower off tomorrow... Got an unexpected day off so I'll be out there trying to solve this all day, finally on a warm day 57F! So there's a positive!

BTW, after being frustrated by electrical gremlins and giving up to go to work. I got up from my stool and found the rear brake pad c clip that sprung off into oblivion the other day just sitting on the stool shelf underneath the seat! So I get one major hurdle to overcome, but the universe gives me back one tiny surprise. Irony is that I had just ordered 20 of them from Mercato an hour earlier while sitting on that stool as the c clip was underneath me. Ha!

Also, I just found a possibly helpful solution to using my blowtorch or my Weller soldering iron. The Weller iron takes far too long to heat up wire especially when you can't really press it up against something hard on the bike or use multiple hands to get the job done. Blowtorch gets it got enough fast but it's too destructive and not a precise tool for the job leading to melted and burned wire plastic. So I found this blowtorch powered portable soldering iron that I'm going to try tomorrow.
Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think you would be interested in seeing:

Bernzomatic ST500 Cordless Soldering Iron and Micro Torch Kit with 7 Settings, Lead-Free Rosin Core Solder and Case
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-ST500-Cordless-Soldering-Iron-and-Micro-Torch-Kit-with-7-Settings-Lead-Free-Rosin-Core-Solder-and-Case-368600/304813553
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4423
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:59 am quote
yes, you are learning one of the key lessons of scootering. even when you are so close you can taste it, if you need a proper tool to do the job, set down the crude tool and walk away. you will have it sorted soon, I'm sure. that was a hard lesson for me to digest, but scooter life got much better once I decided to use the real life "just walk away" button more often!
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:22 am quote
Yes I've learned that fast over the past summer and winter. I heed the warnings and walk away for a fresh start more quickly now.

Back to the problem... Took an hour and a half of muscle and struggle but I got the headset off and think I found the source of my issue. Buried inside the neck was this frayed wire. I'm gonna patch everything and try to re heat shrink all the torn coverings.

This actually makes me feel a lot better about this. Electrical makes me want to give up and I was at work last night thinking maybe I finally need to admit taking too big of a bite with these Vespas, but now I'm back to normal thinking I can finish this thing. Headset wiring was a lot of work but I'll get it back in and on.

Including more shots of all the wiring damage inside the neck from standard Stella wiring harness

IMG_20200302_111713.jpg
Frayed Brown wire deep inside the neck. Looks like someone might had tried to repair it in the past.

IMG_20200302_112100.jpg
Hot mess

IMG_20200302_112914.jpg
The problem area.

IMG_20200302_112924.jpg
More chewed up heat shrink

IMG_20200302_112940.jpg

IMG_20200302_113651.jpg
There it is after I removed the electrical tape someone else applied



Last edited by swiss1939 on Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4423
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:32 am quote
yikes! good thing you chased that down.
Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 522
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:26 pm quote
I like to use stuff similar to this stuff, bunch of brands out there.


https://www.zippertubing.com/search/PRT?gclid=CjwKCAiA-vLyBRBWEiwAzOkGVMUV3Zz1I4Ya8ltKENw4z3jSqUmlHy7O9-bh88OQVsJm9a1jSC13VhoCB6MQAvD_BwE
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:42 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
yikes! good thing you chased that down.
Still yet to prove this was the problem, as a continuity test on the loose wire before the fray to the two ends after the fray and I was getting continiuity. Im hoping it is still the problem area and that it was just grounding on headset since it was exposed. I resoldered it and covered with new heat shrink. Also re-heat shrinked everything else, but could only find 3" strips at home depot so I ended up having to overlap pieces which led to chunky spots, and started shoving everything back into the neck but realized it wouldn't fit with all the cables back in cause the new heat shrink was thick and hard so I decided to pull it back out and rip it off again. It all went back into the neck easily while it was hot and soft, but once it cooled it was extremely stiff and didn't seem like it would be able to fit in the headset openings.

I ordered the correct replacement heat shrink from SIP which comes in longer tubes, so hopefully it is thin enough to fit, but thick enough to protect, and I won't have chunky spots from overlapping pieces.. so hopefully everything fits better back in the neck and headset when all said and done. I'll redo that when it comes, feed everything back into the headset and connect everything before jamming the headset back on to make sure the problem was solved.

On a related note, that bernzomatic butane powered solder iron worked amazingly! Finally solved my problem with soldering irons that don't get hot enough to quickly solder wires in difficult to reach spots. Best purchase in a while. Its a mini blow torch with precise solder attachment, best of both worlds.
Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 307
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:56 am quote
just for my 2cents around Stella/LML wireing looms


whenever i have a bike with one, i remove it and all its supporting switches and replace with Piaggio items

Loom, switches etc. - been bitten more than once with the inconsistencies of quality and colour on the Indian beaut
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:06 pm quote
Electrical solved. Now I don't think the frayed Brown wire was the problem preventing parking light and rear light coming on with key turned on, since it was on the DC circuit. I think that was just a future problem I caught with the ac to headlight before it shorted on the frame and caused a bigger problem. I think the problem was the inline 2a fuse box connections are weak. I'm going to rewire a new better inline fuse box for that fuse. The clamps on this one suck and easily come off if wires are moved around. When I checked the fuse before ripping the headset apart, I pulled the fuse and tested continuity on the fuse by itself and saw it was good and assumed it was something else. Today I still couldn't get it to light up after fixing all this stuff so I just realized I should try the fuse outside of the case where I can see the contacts are solid and it lit up. The parking light contact to led bulb is also twitchy in the rubber holder so that was another thing throwing me off.

I did fix a lot of junk connections with some quick connects and bullet terminals. Fed new splice wires for horn yellow wire and clutch switch from headset. Also fixed the headlight wiring from my previous swap to halogen connector. Quick connects previously clamped on came off so I soldered new quick connects on.

IMG_20200303_155048.jpg
Yellow horn wire. Didn't have yellow wire.. So the splice is white

IMG_20200303_155057.jpg
Red yellow wire from clutch switch. Spliced with red wire and orange heat shrink (red and yellow make orange)

IMG_20200303_155109.jpg
The other ends of those two splices. Bullet terminal and a quick connect.

IMG_20200303_155133.jpg
Headlight wiring all now quick connects soldered on. Heat shrink on everything then electrical tape over the connected ends just in case.

IMG_20200303_155112.jpg
The inline 2a fuse connections that are normally in a cheap plastic case snapped together. Contacts come apart easily. Gonna replace this junk.

IMG_20200303_161646.jpg
New inline fuse holder. Already had a couple from Amazon ordered last year when I installed one on the phone charger on this scoot

Hooked
1984 PX(BGM187)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 361
Location: Cornwall UK
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:06 am quote
That looks to have been quite a mess to sort out, but worth the effort and much tidier and trouble-free now I hope. Nice job sticking with it, Swiss.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4384
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:49 am quote
Stellas are the worst for wiring issues, followed by P series as a distant second. Kudos to you for figuring it all out.
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:22 am quote
Thanks guys.

Ok so I got my shrink wrap from sip and it's not what I was expecting. It's really only for one or two small wires, not for the big section of harness.

So I'm going to find another solution more along the lines of Christopher's suggestion, although that zipper stuff seemed to be more for patching small sections of harness, not for long runs and is also very expensive.

Anyone have wrapped their own harness have something that works great, remains flexible and strong yet thin enough to get in tight spaces?

I'm either thinking a wire harness tape or a shrink tube, but not the braided harness wrap as that would get caught up in the tight spaces.

Thinking of either this:
http://www.wiringharness.com/harnesstape.htm
Or something like this self vulcanizing tape:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HWROLIG/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_fINyEb3B2BJ6E
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1195
Location: california
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:26 am quote
Swiss - check these guys out.
[url]
They r probably expensive - but their vids are pretty good tutorials on options and materials.

You might find something more cost effective made of same online ?
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:11 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss - check these guys out.
[url]
They r probably expensive - but their vids are pretty good tutorials on options and materials.

You might find something more cost effective made of same online ?
I'll watch this tonight at work as I'm sitting around doing nothing for 10 hours.

Thanks CM!
Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 388
Location: Long Beach, CA
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:28 pm quote
McMaster-Carr has PVC sleeving in various diameters and lengths. PVC same as factory loom, and you can pick and choose to suit your needs. Very cost effective. I have ordered similar PVC sleeve from other vendors, but not this particular one. They also have many options for Heat shrink tubing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/929
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1958
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:46 pm quote
GeekLion wrote:
McMaster-Carr has PVC sleeving in various diameters and lengths. PVC same as factory loom, and you can pick and choose to suit your needs. Very cost effective. I have ordered similar PVC sleeve from other vendors, but not this particular one. They also have many options for Heat shrink tubing.

https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/929
Geek lion thanks for that. For some reason I always forget about McMaster as an option cause i always just think they only do hardware and raw metal. I need to order some metric hardware so I night just try some of their heat shrink options. I also ordered some of that vulcanizing tape on Amazon to see which looks like it will hold up the best over time.
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