I Hate It When This Happens!
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
Author Message
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sat May 23, 2020 8:32 pm quote
I have been collecting parts for quite awhile now to build an SS180. Several months about I bought a "premium quality" wiring harness specifically for an SS180 model no battery. It arrived and I looked it over and it seemed fine so I put it away with all the other parts I'm collecting.

Now I'm ready to start the wiring, so I took out the original bakelite junction box that I have and I discovered the following from the photos. The brass eyelet connectors from the five wires to the junction box are far too large. There is no way they could fit into the channels in the bakelite unless I grind them down, which I refuse to do. The third and fourth photos are of an original Piaggio harness for a small frame. As you can see, the eyelet connectors are the perfect size and fit perfectly.

I'm pissed. I feel that when these companies make and sell this crap, they don't take specific applications into consideration; they just produce a generic product that will fit some models. This is supposed to be a high-end, high quality product. Now I have to unbend all the f***ing brass eyelets and go out and find the correct sized ones to crimp on the wires.

Vespa Wire1.jpeg



Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sat May 23, 2020 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sat May 23, 2020 8:33 pm quote
That don't fit and never will unless it's bodged to hell with a grinder.

Vespa Wire2.jpeg



Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sat May 23, 2020 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sat May 23, 2020 8:34 pm quote
That is what real life should be like.

Vespa Wire3.jpeg



Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sat May 23, 2020 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sat May 23, 2020 8:35 pm quote
As you can see, the whole family will snuggle up nicely where each one feels at home with proper social distancing. Thanks Mr. Piaggio. I wish that others would follow the lead, but they don't.

Vespa Wire4.jpeg

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3363
Location: Bangkok
Sat May 23, 2020 10:59 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
That don't fit and never will unless it's bodged to hell with a grinder.
I believe you are confusing the words fitting or fettling which are craftsmanship words, with bodging which suggests haphazard workmanship.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sat May 23, 2020 11:38 pm quote
waspmike wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
That don't fit and never will unless it's bodged to hell with a grinder.
I believe you are confusing the words fitting or fettling which are craftsmanship words, with bodging which suggests haphazard workmanship.
Well, ok. I remember back in high school woodshop class we used to mix Elmer's glue and sawdust to fill "imperfections" in our creations, but there is a difference between a state of the art parts facility in a European country and my garage. I've grown used to this though. In a way, it's good because it may force me to buy the bulk wire, the correct connectors, and make my own harness. Mediocrity forces self-sufficiency.
Member
‘60 VBB
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 34
Location: Chico CA
Sun May 24, 2020 5:42 am quote
Please make a formal complaint with the company and include the photos.

Let’s see how creative their excuses are.
Addicted
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 648
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 24, 2020 5:43 am quote
If needed you could open up the old eyelets, put them on the new wire and solders the wire and eyelet for a good connection. Not sure how pliable the old eyelets are or if they would just brake.

Personally I would use a rotary tool and shape the new eyelets and be done with it. Isn't there a cover anyway? I also wouldn't call it a bodge if done correctly.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1788

Sun May 24, 2020 7:39 am quote
Where did you buy the harness from ? I bought mine from Sip at like $80 euros , I have to change the eyelets to make sure they are proper.
Back when I was building and riding British bikes I would always hit the wires with a bit of solder, was always stopping to help a friends bike that had a broken wire, no solder.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:41 am quote
I see everyone's points here. I don't want to name the company because to name the company is against rules, and I like the company. I did send a message to them about it.

I don't have an old one to cannibalize original eyelets off of. That second one is an original Piaggio harness for a small frame that I am not willing to assault. I just used the photos as a comparison to show how off their harness is.

As far as shaping or grinding the eyelets goes, I'm not doing it. For one thing, the holes are too large. Once material is ground away on the outside, then the whole thing becomes a thin, weak little joint. I will have to pry off their eyelets and go to a hardware store to find smaller ones. That, however, defies the whole point of mail ordering the "correct" parts for the job. If it were a cheapo Asian harness, I'd let it go, toss it, and move on, but it is fairly expensive and is made by an Italian based company. I have no idea where they had it made though. The company I bought it from is not the producer, just the vendor.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1788

Sun May 24, 2020 8:14 am quote
Just went out and checked mine, looks the way you would expect for $80 euros.

5CCA6E7D-E9C9-422D-AB31-A18F2EB5ED87.jpeg

bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5300
Location: So Cal
Sun May 24, 2020 11:52 am quote
Quote:
I feel that when these companies make and sell this crap, they don't take specific applications into consideration; they just produce a generic product that will fit some models.
^ This. Drives me up the wall. Just because a part “can” fit a particular model doesn’t mean it was made for that model. I have boxes of generic crap that I’ve bought that didn’t quite cut it. It’s one of the most frustrating aspects of this crazy scene.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2513

Sun May 24, 2020 12:07 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
I see everyone's points here. I don't want to name the company because to name the company is against rules,
If that were the case, then none of us here could even mention the brand of scooter that we ride! This forum here is also for learning and sharing knowledge...so naming the vendor isn’t against the rules (it will keep the rest of us from buying the same crap). Now if it became a thread bash against them, well that’s a no go.

As for the oversized eyelets...yes very frustrating! After taking a breather to decompress, I would just put a 2” flapper disc on a 1/4” die grinder and have it all sorted in a few minutes.
Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 414
Location: Southern California, USA
Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 pm quote
I think I bought a whole bag of these ends, OEM. I was also bummed that I couldn't find anything to fit right so when a bag came up for sale, I snagged it.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 6:05 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
I see everyone's points here. I don't want to name the company because to name the company is against rules,
If that were the case, then none of us here could even mention the brand of scooter that we ride! This forum here is also for learning and sharing knowledge...so naming the vendor isn’t against the rules (it will keep the rest of us from buying the same crap). Now if it became a thread bash against them, well that’s a no go.
Ok. Here is the product. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/wiring+loom+for+vespa+vbb2t+_87001100
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 6:16 pm quote
Lynnb wrote:
Just went out and checked mine, looks the way you would expect for $80 euros.
Lynnb,

That's a different harness altogether as it has a different color of wires, I believe, but those smaller eyellets look like they would fit in the GS160 junction box. The junction boxes are different as well. On the GS160 junction box, there are deep channeled grooves in the Bakelite for the the ends and wires to fit into. The brass eyelets on this harness are oversized and will not fit into the channles. They may fit your junction box. As stated in the webstite description, it is for a VBB2T and an SS180. When the manufacturer made it, they were not taking into consideration that the designs of the junction boxes of the two models are different. They were only taking into consideration that the wiring schematics for the different models are the same. As far as I know, the same schematic is for VLB1T, VBB2T, VSC1T, and VNB6T.

Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sun May 24, 2020 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2513

Sun May 24, 2020 6:48 pm quote
Thanks for the link. And FYI Grabor brand wire switches are very poor quality. Apparently their wire harness are too. Big surprise there...


And now the word is out that the brand Grabor overall just sucks, which translated back into German is “grade C repair”. Apparently something got lost in translation at SIP’s website?...
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:01 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Thanks for the link. And FYI Grabor brand wire switches are very poor quality. Apparently their wire harness are too. Big surprise there...


And now the word is out that the brand Grabor overall just sucks, which translated back into German is “grade C repair”. Apparently something got lost in translation at SIP’s website?...
Yes, as it says it's made by Grabor, which is not the old Grabor that used to make great parts for Piaggio, but a new "Grabor". In the description it clearly says, "Grade A - perfect repair", so yes, perhaps there is an error in judgement or translation.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:15 pm quote
Here is a connector I found in my collection of "junk" from a local hardware store. It's not a Grade A Perfect repair, but it works without any bodgification. And to think that just a few days ago I was disparaging hardware stores.

[/img]

515BA878-F01F-4C25-98C2-925DA7BFE988-1.jpeg



Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sun May 24, 2020 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:17 pm quote
[img][/img]

C049FBB2-2134-4641-8512-BD4D4439FD7B-1.jpeg

Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:21 pm quote
It fits.

F34FB95C-64FF-460D-9736-FB671BE9D6D4-1.jpeg

Hooked
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 107

Sun May 24, 2020 7:41 pm quote
Sweet! Awesome you found something that would work out.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Sun May 24, 2020 7:45 pm quote
Yes, I can make it work, but now I'm questioning the overall quality of the whole harness and whether or not to use it. A wiring harness is one of those things one hopes will last many years because it's not an easy thing to change out. Maybe I should ask the question: Who makes the highest quality wiring harnesses for Vespas?
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1788

Mon May 25, 2020 12:34 am quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Yes, I can make it work, but now I'm questioning the overall quality of the whole harness and whether or not to use it. A wiring harness is one of those things one hopes will last many years because it's not an easy thing to change out. Maybe I should ask the question: Who makes the highest quality wiring harnesses for Vespas?
This is a very good question, along with what makes it a good quality harness? This is the one I have and here I thought it was $80 euro, https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/wiring+loom+sip+for+conversion_86135250?fbclid=IwAR2WjCX-GJSO0toFycNWPoy17orvs_BD5ta42R9PtrQZK5VF9vBTu2JDNvQ

Me knowing nothing and learning as I go , would the wire harness that someone wanted be the one that matches the ignition type as well as wanting the mating switch so that the wire diagram works and mates to the setup? I mean that is part of the reason for a designer buying a pre-made wring harness right?
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Mon May 25, 2020 2:13 am quote
Lynnb wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
Yes, I can make it work, but now I'm questioning the overall quality of the whole harness and whether or not to use it. A wiring harness is one of those things one hopes will last many years because it's not an easy thing to change out. Maybe I should ask the question: Who makes the highest quality wiring harnesses for Vespas?
This is a very good question, along with what makes it a good quality harness? This is the one I have and here I thought it was $80 euro, https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/wiring+loom+sip+for+conversion_86135250?fbclid=IwAR2WjCX-GJSO0toFycNWPoy17orvs_BD5ta42R9PtrQZK5VF9vBTu2JDNvQ

Me knowing nothing and learning as I go , would the wire harness that someone wanted be the one that matches the ignition type as well as wanting the mating switch so that the wire diagram works and mates to the setup? I mean that is part of the reason for a designer buying a pre-made wring harness right?
That one you bought is probably good because as you can see, it was made by SIP, not an outside manufacturer. I think their in-house parts are really quite good. The one I bought from SIP is made by Grabor.

What makes a good wiring harness? is your other question. I guess it would be proper lengths, high quality wire with plastic coatings that won't turn to dust after a few years, and proper fittings that are the right sizes and durable metal.
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 598
Location: New Zealand
Tue May 26, 2020 6:19 pm quote
do it factory
Make nice little loops in the end of each wire around the correct diameter crewdriver or nail .....cut and bare the wire so there is enough to make the loop and and wee bit more to wrap around the base of the loop.slide it off and sit it down over the hot soldering iron shaft.....add some solder and watch in melt into the strands as you smile......just like the factory did....if you are OCD you can get a perfect ,strong loop at the screwdriver stage

good luck

(yep those fat terminals pissed me off too..trouble is when you cut them off and crimp in a newbie some no longer reach their destination.....i ended up making little loops with bit extra length..and soldered/heat shrink them to the ends you cut off...
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1436
Location: Siam
Tue May 26, 2020 7:50 pm quote
Bluecati wrote:
Make nice little loops in the end of each wire around the correct diameter crewdriver or nail .....cut and bare the wire so there is enough to make the loop and and wee bit more to wrap around the base of the loop.slide it off and sit it down over the hot soldering iron shaft.....add some solder and watch in melt into the strands as you smile......just like the factory did....if you are OCD you can get a perfect ,strong loop at the screwdriver stage

good luck

(yep those fat terminals pissed me off too..trouble is when you cut them off and crimp in a newbie some no longer reach their destination.....i ended up making little loops with bit extra length..and soldered/heat shrink them to the ends you cut off...
Hmm, (sigh). Sure, that's great, and I could very well do that. The whole point of what I'm saying is that an "A Grade Premium" quality part should not require all that effort and skill to make it work. This would require a person to buy a soldering iron, silver solder, flux, and have the skills to do it. The manufacturer should be doing all this before they send it out. Don't you think?
Cross Egypt Challenge - A 2400km ride throughout Egypt   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
[ Time: 0.1666s ][ Queries: 27 (0.0493s) ][ Debug on ]