MP3 500 ECU version?
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MP3 500
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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Location: Wash DC
Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:39 am quote
Does anyone know where to locate the ECU on the MP3 500?
I am trying to check the version.
I understand the Gilera Fuoco has the MM-IAW15P but I'm not sure if it is the same for the MP3 500.

Thanks!
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:59 am quote
It's the same. The only difference is some badging and reflectors.

The location - attached to the throttle body.
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MP3 500
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Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:07 am quote
jimC

What is the unit on the frame just behind the front splash shield?? I thought that was the ECU Guess not
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:41 am quote
It is an Electronic Control Unit, sure - but for the tilt-lock. Piaggio also call the seat-opening receiver an 'ECU'. They call the main engine one the 'MIA' - which may be an obvious acronym to an Italian-speaker.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 1032

Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:23 am quote
The IAW15P is the old style master injection, not used in anything since the X9500 and early Nexus... its open loop non adaptive so fairly basic.

The Fuoco and MP3s run MUI injection now, all of which have the ECU part of the throttle body... i did break one apart somewhere round here and took some pictures for someone... ill try find em and stick them up on here too... these are closed loop fully adaptive injection, so much more modern.
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RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
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Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:12 am quote
cheekythomas wrote:
The IAW15P is the old style master injection, not used in anything since the X9500 and early Nexus... its open loop non adaptive so fairly basic.

The Fuoco and MP3s run MUI injection now, all of which have the ECU part of the throttle body... i did break one apart somewhere round here and took some pictures for someone... ill try find em and stick them up on here too... these are closed loop fully adaptive injection, so much more modern.
That would be TOO COOL! Please do!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 1032

Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:49 am quote
Here we go... found em...









Heres the original thread on the vespa club when i ripped it apart, it was about the idle control system and how it works with the MIU system.. and what happens more and more with dirty air being sucked in...

http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2188&start=10

I do have a tilt lock ECU somewhere too, havent broke it apart yet, but might do if the warranty retaining period has passed
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MP3 250 -> MP3 400 -> Gilera Fuoco -> SRV 850 -> Beverly 350
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Location: Essex
Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:53 am quote
Is this what's going wrong on my lovely new Fugly Tom? heh.

Dropping to neutral and stalling in London rush hour is.... er.... fun!
Hooked
2009 MP3 500, Red. Had MP3 250, Barron 150 Retro
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Location: Ossining, NY
Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:02 pm quote
I think you may have found the Flux Capacitor?
I think you may have found the Flux Capacitor?
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MP3 500, Ducati ST4s, Honda Silver Wing
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Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:18 pm quote
Cool; I've never seen a circuit board that looked like a turbine before.
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Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
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Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:35 pm quote
cheeky that is a great post on the throttlebody in the GTS owners forum . everyone should have a read on it http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2188&start=10
Member
MP3 500
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Wash DC
Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:34 pm quote
How to hook up VDST diagnostic tool?
Can someone please tell me how you hook up the VDST diagnostic tool on the MP3 500?

Thank you,
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:56 pm quote
Via the connector provided?
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
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Location: Austin TX
Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:39 pm quote
The following quote is from a post cheekythomas made regarding a GTS 250 stalling at colder temperatures. Reading through it, it does indeed shed some light on some things that may carrover to the MP3....if indeed the MP3 uses the same mechanisms of action for controlling idle, throttle and the whole mess of it.
cheekythomas wrote:
You cant readjust the idle, even with a diagnostic box.. the ECU controls the idle speed with a stepper motor actuated bypass valve in the throttle body and there starts todays lesson in MIU injection...

On these machines the throttle body and ECU is all in one unit, so it looks more complicated than it really is...

On a carb engine, when you close the throttle, it closes a butterfly valve in the inlet stream and the resulting airflow drop reduces the fuel atomisation and allows the engine rpm to drop... the carbs jet sizes determine how much fuel is drawn into the air supply and provides a fixed ratio of air to fuel... to control the idle speed on most carbs they simply have a screw that stops the throttle butterfly from closing all the way. The more open it is the higher the idle speed, the more closed it is, the lower the idle speed...

However the injection set up on the GTS is different... when you shut the throttle it again controls a butterfly valve, but on these it closes completely stopping all air into the engine, which should mean the engine suffocates and stalls... however to enable the ECU to be able to control its own idle speed, they build in whats known as a stepper motor controlled airflow system...

If you look into the mouth of the GTS throttle body, youll see the totally closed butterfly valve but before that a small opening.. this is the inlet to the stepper motor chamber...



Air enters through that hole and travels along the small external passageway cast into the aluminum body of throttle body..



Once the air has come through there it enters a small chamber that has its exit blocked by the stepper motor...



The stepper motor itself is mounted in the throttle body and can wind its plunger in and outwards within a set distance, but highly accurately.. its something silly like a 14mm travel made up from 52 individual steps..



So now the ECU moves and controls this stepper motor based on a pre-set program written into the ECU coding, that is cross referenced against the throttle position sensor, so it knows how open or closed the throttle butterfly is and therefore how open or closed this bypass system needs to be... so for example, as the throttle butterfly starts closing, the stepper motor will open to ensure enough air gets through to allow the engine to idle.

The throttle position sensor is mounted here in the ECU body, which if you look from above, shows its mounted directly on the other end of the throttle spindle that has the cable fitting and the throttle butterfly attached too.





The air that gets passed the stepper motor then exits down a small opening and enters the inlet manifold and allows the engine to run...





To accompany the stepper motors controlled air bypass feature, the ECU is written with a pre-set calculation for fueling, so the time the injector is open, is directly related to how many steps open the stepper motor is open to keep the idle fueling at the correct ratio...

... however just to confuse things a little, the ECU can and does also "fine tune" the idle control system based on feed back from the lambda sensor and the temperature sensors, again all using a pre-set program of values written in the ECU software, as an example, on a cold day the ECU wont open the stepper motor as much as the amount of air needed to achieve a correct idle will be lower due to the denser air than on a blazing hot summer day when the oxygen content will be much lower.

So if the bike suffers from stalling, there is a problem with something in this chain of events... Piaggio did change the ECU software as bikes were suffering from stalling in some countrys, us in the UK for example got a new software update to cure stalling in our climates, quite what is different they dont say, but it cured all known software related stalling.

Another common problem these machines suffer is due to the emission control brought in by Euro 3 requirements... the gases from the engines crankcases including compression bypass is pumped into the airbox to be reburned, this often causes a lot of oil mist to be pulled into the airbox, which gets sucked into the engine to be reburned... however all this oil can cause residues to build up inside the small air bypass passage, and inside the stepper motor chamber... which effects operation, and often causes issues like stalling or high idling...

Ive known some to block completely and be unrecoverable... although its very very rare.

On really bad ones ive sprayed a solvent cleaner into the air passageway, while using the diagnostic computer to manually open and close the stepper motor several times to wash the system clean... as a routine maintenance cleaning operation on working units, just remove the air filter element so you can see the intake, and with the engine at idle use a aerosol carb cleaner and keep giving the intake short mists of cleaner making sure you dont overdue it and force it to stall... this mist will be drawn into the engine, through the passageways and workings and clean it all out as it goes, often cures all stalling faults.

If not then you need a diagnostic box, to check that the ECU is getting the right information from the TPS, Lambda sensor and temperature sensor... as an example if the temperature sensor is telling the bikes its colder than it really is, then the fueling will be wrong and this can cause stalling etc.

While this is a very very basic explanation of how it works i hope it helps you understand a little bit more of what and why...

The downside to the GTS set up, is the fact its all in one unit, on something like a suzuki, if the TPS dies, its a 40 part and a few screws to replace... on a GTS its an entire 320 unit... thankfully they are quite robust.
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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:03 am quote
Re: How to hook up VDST diagnostic tool?
BigHam wrote:
Can someone please tell me how you hook up the VDST diagnostic tool on the MP3 500?

Thank you,
The connector is in the battery compartment.
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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:05 am quote
Thanks to O.A.D and onsiteaudio for finding the post and Cheeythomas for the details in it. I'll be running some carb cleaner through mine this afternoon.
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MP3 500
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:23 am quote
Fuzzy wrote:
Thanks to O.A.D and onsiteaudio for finding the post and Cheeythomas for the details in it. I'll be running some carb cleaner through mine this afternoon.
Edit:
Ignore this till I can confirm.

Make sure you use a Injector safe cleaner as a true Carb Cleaner will eat away the clear coat on the throttle body if there is one.

Last edited by StooterBoy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Member
MP3 500
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Location: Wash DC
Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:35 am quote
Just curious...
Does anyone know where on the Piaggio MP3 500 to locate the "Magneti Marelli MIU" fuel-injector?
How do you actually get to it?

I'm trying to verify the model.


Thank you
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:24 am quote
As stated before, it's attached to the throttle body, on the engine.
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2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
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Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:24 am quote
Fuzzy wrote:
Thanks to O.A.D and onsiteaudio for finding the post and Cheeythomas for the details in it. I'll be running some carb cleaner through mine this afternoon.
You're welcome.

Evidently I earned my first half target of good Karma. HOORAY!

Muchos Gracias for cheekythomas for the excellent informative and educational post about the MIU.
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:34 am quote
Re: Just curious...
BigHam wrote:
Does anyone know where on the Piaggio MP3 500 to locate the "Magneti Marelli MIU" fuel-injector?
How do you actually get to it?

I'm trying to verify the model.
BigHam,

I believe the "Magneti Marelli MIU" is on the receiving end of the airbox. Do you know were the airfilter is located? The airfilter is located inside the airbox. If my thinking is correct the MIU is located on the receiving end of the airbox.

chris
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Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:56 pm quote
I'll be doing a air box mod hopefully later this week and I'll try and get some pics in there .
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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:49 pm quote
StooterBoy wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Thanks to O.A.D and onsiteaudio for finding the post and Cheeythomas for the details in it. I'll be running some carb cleaner through mine this afternoon.
Make sure you use a Injector safe cleaner as a true Carb Cleaner will eat away the clear coat on the throttle body if there is one.
OK, I assumed the carb cleaner in my shed was "true Carb Cleaner" so I stopped at Walmart and NAPA on the way home. One specifically said not recommended for fuel injectors. All said they would eat paint Most are illegal in California. None said they are safe with fuel injectors.

Any advice on a specific product to purchase for this application
Molto Verboso
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:04 pm quote
I use, and during our piaggio tech training they used one made by wurth... but it doesnt mention injectors either...
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MP3 500
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Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:52 pm quote
Fuzzy wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Thanks to O.A.D and onsiteaudio for finding the post and Cheeythomas for the details in it. I'll be running some carb cleaner through mine this afternoon.
Make sure you use a Injector safe cleaner as a true Carb Cleaner will eat away the clear coat on the throttle body if there is one.
OK, I assumed the carb cleaner in my shed was "true Carb Cleaner" so I stopped at Walmart and NAPA on the way home. One specifically said not recommended for fuel injectors. All said they would eat paint Most are illegal in California. None said they are safe with fuel injectors.

Any advice on a specific product to purchase for this application
Hum??? Do I have it backwards??? Going to see what I have.

Edit: Well I don't see anywhere on my Carb and Choke cleaner about not using on injectors, so I am not sure now. Ignore my advice till I can talk to someone.
Old age (will be 50 this year) and time since working on cars are taking there toll
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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
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Location: Milledgeville, GA
Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:57 am quote
Spent some time on Google and noticed that some of the vendors for carb cleaner also sell a product for "air intake cleaner" and some of these mention for fuel injected.

Info on the CRC version:
Quote:
Detailed Description
Cleans air-intakes, throttle bodies and linkages on fuel-injected vehicles. Safe on Teflon coated throttle bodies. Low VOCs. Use on: Fuel injected gasoline engines (both throttle body & multi-port)
StooterBoy, maybe this is what your initial post was directed towards. At least one carb cleaner product I looked as stated "not recomended for fuel injected engines" and all of them seemed to be similar products.

One google link was to a forum telling how to do it by hand with a concern that even the air intake cleaners have strong chemicals but that would be a major job to remove from an MP3.

After work I will go back and look for an air intake cleaner product that states OK for fuel injected engines. I know I over oiled my air filter at least once and that could be the source of some build up in mine. Symptoms fit what Cheekythomas reported.
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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
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Location: Milledgeville, GA
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:24 pm quote
Stoped at Napa after work and they had no air intake cleaner. Next door was an Advanced Auto Parts. They had a product by Next Dimension. It is a carb cleaner. Label says safe for fuel injection systems. Got home, took off the air filter and applied some to the air intake with the engine running. Not able to put a small enough amount in at idle to not kill the engine. Had it on the center stand and rolled the throttle a bit then let go the throtte and gave a quick burst of cleaner. Repeated a few times. Reinstalled the air filter and took for a short test ride. Seemed better but with 75 degree temp and the engine already warm it was not the condition to see the problem. I will know better on the way to work in the morning. I'll report back.

If this works it may be right to do a brief treatment when the air filter is off. There is oil in the filter and some have engine oil buildup in the air filter cove. If some of this oil finds its way into the engine air intake it could cause the buildup Cheekythomas shared this method to correct.

carb cleaner.jpg

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. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:41 am quote
Update
Much improved on ride to work this morning. Temperatur in low 40s and of course starting with a cold engine. Low rpm and cold performance much better. Did not have to give a little gas to keep engine running to warm up. No sputtering prior to engine rpm climbing above 4000. I'll probqably give the intake a shot of this stuff every time I have the air filter off.
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Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:05 am quote
Re: Update
Fuzzy wrote:
Much improved on ride to work this morning. Temperatur in low 40s and of course starting with a cold engine. Low rpm and cold performance much better. Did not have to give a little gas to keep engine running to warm up. No sputtering prior to engine rpm climbing above 4000. I'll probqably give the intake a shot of this stuff every time I have the air filter off.
good to hear. I look at the intake on mine yesterday and there is just a light bit of drt buildup around the very edge of the butterfly.
I have serviced my air filter every 2k miles . I agree with you Fuzzy I will start giving the throttle body a shot or 2 every air filter service as well.

Thanks
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