Signal sorcerer Install/review
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Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:40 pm quote
So I bought this thing. This signal sorcerer thing. After reading the reviews, I decided that I would try it out.

About a week and a half after ordering it this arrived:



I opened it up and found the following:



I opened the tube and took a look at the 'sorcerer'




Several days later (after the snow melted) I went out to the garage to install the 'sorcerer'.

I looked under the scoot for a good place to mount it and decided this crossbar look promising:


I removed the cover from the mounting tape and then added an additional zip tie - just in case





This little magnet is VERY strong. The install was simple. But, does it provide any benefit?

I took it out to an intersection that I knew didn't work with the scoot.

It didn't do a damned thing. I sat there, waiting, nothing.....does this mean it doesn't work? I don't know. I called the city and asked them to check the loop to make sure it is working properly. I know of a couple other intersections that don't normally work with the scoot, so I will have to find a time when there is little/no traffic and post a recap of the actual function.

SIDE NOTE:

There was another thing in the box:



The claim is that if you install this into the oil filter at the next oil change, it will attract and keep all metal particles it finds in the oil and help protect the engine. Not sure about this thing either. Any opinions?

Ossessionato
One of each
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 3414
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:43 pm quote
Maybe put the giant magnet on the oil filter and the little one on the frame and try it again?

How's that for a subtle opinion?

Interesting that google only has reviews of the oil filter magnet on sites selling them. And the ion realignment piece that goes on your fuel line.

Here's an interesting essay from an internet expert:

What do you think of these "super magnets" that attach to the outside of the oil filter?

The oil is typically traveling at over 7 gpm (in a CAR not Vespa, but still relative) as it goes through the oil filter. These Neodymium " super magnets" as they are commonly called, are really not so super or strong enough to pull ferrous metal out of suspension as it whizzes by at 7 gpm.

It just isn't possible. In addition, most people don't realize that Neodymium magnets loose their magnetic properties the higher the temperature gets, where at 200°F they have but 10% of the magnetic forces left. Guess what temperature your engine operates at?

185°F (in a car not sure on Vespa, about 1/2 way up the gauge seems right to me) If you really wanted to put a magnet into your system, the ideal place would be the bottom of your drain plug. This way what little metal you may have suspended in your oil, is allowed to slowly fall out of suspension to the bottom of your oil pan, where it slowly migrates over to the lowest point in your sump, where it could be collected by a simple magnet. Just like automobile engines have done for years.
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:12 am quote
Magnetic flux density decreases by the square of the distance, You'd need a very powerful magnet, at a very short distance, to have an effect on most ferromagnetic traffic sensors. That's why these devices don't fare well in tests.

Along one of my routes, there are two sensors that I can't trip with my sports-bikes. I can trip them with my scooters though, thanks to the iron (ferrous) cowlings. Then there are the others, that don't sense anything I'm mounting.
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:50 am quote
I made the attempt at another known intersection today (known for not turning with just me on it on the scoot) - guess what!? IT DIDN'T TRIP!

At this point I feel like I have a $20 fridge magnet

I will continue to test at the other couple of intersections I know are problems. The thing it - I have a feeling that a properly adjusted loop will trip with the scoot, simply due to the amount of steel in the frame. So, I am not ready to endorse this product - yet........
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Yamaha Vstar classic 650 'Yamama' (Currently waspless but don't count me out!)
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 6734
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:33 am quote
I baught that same set up. The only thing that I noticed with your installation is that I think the directions recommend aligning the magnet with the bike, yours seems to be across it. I don't know that it would help much since the polarity shouldn't matter as far as disrupting the field in the sensors.

Of my 5 commuting turn signal issues, 3 are inductive loop, the others use a different sensor. I haven't tried the scoot with the magnet on yet. I'll let you know my results (if they're better I'll send a picture with where I mounted it)

The little ball scared me. I don't like the idea of something that could be jarred loose running around and potentially blocking something in my lubrication system. Especially if magnets loose their power with heat, as stated above, that's even more opportunity for it to jar loose. No thanks on that one.
Ossessionato
One of each
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 3414
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:30 pm quote
lomunchi wrote:
....Especially if magnets loose their power with heat, as stated above, that's even more opportunity for it to jar loose. No thanks on that one.
Remember I'm quoting an 'internet expert,' so take that as you choose.
Ossessionato
Several - see sig
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 3030
Location: Avon, Ohio (25 miles west of Cleveland)
Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:50 pm quote
Get a second one, and put them on the bottom of your riding boots! That ought to work.
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:46 pm quote
Smorris wrote:
Get a second one, and put them on the bottom of your riding boots! That ought to work.
THAT's what I should have done!!
Banned
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 675

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:28 pm quote
lomunchi beat me to it: I was going to suggest to mount the magnet longitudinally, for this reason: the induction will take a bit longer, as there is a longer lasting magnetic influence on the loop, as the scooter coasts over it.

I would go back to the known, non-functioning loop, and coast over it very, very slowly, to give your latitudinally mounted magnet more chance to induct into the loop.
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:33 pm quote
The directions actually don't state orientation other than parallel to the street. I followed the directions when riding up to the loop (just inside the loop coil) - I plan on slowly riding up on top of the coil to see if it helps as well. If that doesn't work I will attempt to change the orientation and see what happens. More to come from my $20 fridge magnet
Banned
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 675

Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:53 pm quote
jridg wrote:
The directions actually don't state orientation other than parallel to the street.
Well then, there you go.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Yamaha Vstar classic 650 'Yamama' (Currently waspless but don't count me out!)
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 6734
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:53 am quote
jridg wrote:
The directions actually don't state orientation other than parallel to the street.
I thought they did... I couldn't check since I tossed them. Oh well, if nothing else I figured maybe I'd pick up miscelaneous ferrus road debris on the magnet and get it off the streets where it might puncture something!
Ossessionato
Vespa GTS 250ie, and a GO-PED hehe!
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 3752
Location: cleveland, UK.
Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:02 am quote
lomunchi wrote:
jridg wrote:
The directions actually don't state orientation other than parallel to the street.
I thought they did... I couldn't check since I tossed them. Oh well, if nothing else I figured maybe I'd pick up miscelaneous ferrus road debris on the magnet and get it off the streets where it might puncture something!
itdd still get the front tyre though. the vespa street cleaner!!
Banned
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 675

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:06 am quote
lomunchi wrote:
jridg wrote:
The directions actually don't state orientation other than parallel to the street.
I thought they did... I couldn't check since I tossed them. Oh well, if nothing else I figured maybe I'd pick up miscelaneous ferrus road debris on the magnet and get it off the streets where it might puncture something!
That is actually a great idea. From experience, it is usually the rear tire that catches the odd nail or screw, while the front tire is just kicking it up from the street. A strong magnet in between might intercept it while it is summersaulting, yearning for some rubber to puncture...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Yamaha Vstar classic 650 'Yamama' (Currently waspless but don't count me out!)
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 6734
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:05 pm quote
Final review: This item officially blows chunks. Not one intersection was improved. At least it wasn't expensive.

Last edited by lomunchi on Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Wiki Moderator
LX 190, Aurora Blue + Stella FOUR STROKE FURY! + '87 Helix
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6916
Location: Los Angeles
Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:20 pm quote
All I have to do is pull up over the cut out/sensor on the street, tap my center stand on the pavement and I'm good to go. No magnets or gadgets necessary.
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:33 pm quote
I have to agree - it's still on my scoot - I should remove it and put it on the fridge
Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:49 am quote
Update----

Removed the damned thing yesterday during the oil change - I think i'll put it on the fridge......
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