Bleeding Front Brakes and Hydraulic Lock System.
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion 12Next
Author Message
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:38 pm quote
So we bled my front brake and but the lever does not have much resistance.

With regards to the hydraulic locking system, is there a special way to bleed that system?

1. IS the proper fluid dot 4 brake fluid? like the braking system?

2. how do you disable the horn so that you don't have to listen to the 5 honks each time it is locked and unlocked.

3. what are the procedures to bleeding the two systems?

THANK YOU ALL!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:46 pm quote
Re: Bleeding Front Brakes and Hydraulic Lock System.
805g wrote:
So we bled my front brake and but the lever does not have much resistance.

With regards to the hydraulic locking system, is there a special way to bleed that system?

1. IS the proper fluid dot 4 brake fluid? like the braking system?

2. how do you disable the horn so that you don't have to listen to the 5 honks each time it is locked and unlocked.

3. what are the procedures to bleeding the two systems?

THANK YOU ALL!
un-plug the horn to stop it. Dot 4 is correct. While i have not done it yet but plan to. I am going for the vaccum mity vac method. just keep the reservoir topped off.

just did my fronts today as a matter of fact. also did it with the mity vac. the right front was a bit harder because of a tab really close to the bleed nipple.

I just follow the directions with the vac pump. when the pressure gauge dropped to 5 psi I locked the nipple and repulled a vaccum again, then release the fluid and stopped when down to 5 psi. did this about 5-6 times each side.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:32 pm quote
okay, i seriously couldn't locate the horn. Where is the plug to unplug it? i attempted to do fuses with no luck.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:42 pm quote
805g wrote:
okay, i seriously couldn't locate the horn. Where is the plug to unplug it? i attempted to do fuses with no luck.
left side under the floor board to the front of it. you will have to remove the floor board to gain reasonable access to the connectors. you might be able to snake your hand under and feel for the horn. you can see the horn from the front left wheel area looking back to the floorboard. should see vents strips for it.
Molto Verboso
Honda CTX 700D, MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 1145
Location: Louisville, KY
Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:24 am quote
Hmmmm, isn't that a bit on the risky side of safety?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:12 am quote
ponydrvr wrote:
Hmmmm, isn't that a bit on the risky side of safety?
not permanent, just during the bleeding process so you don't have to listen to it.
Hooked
2008 MP3-500
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 465
Location: ANAHEIM CA USA
Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:58 am quote
Here's how I bleed the tilt system:

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic94116?highlight=bleed


Note that it must be bleed by injecting fluid up from the bottom, and with the tilt lock dis-engaged.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 17779
Location: welaka, florida
Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:42 am quote
How did I miss that great thread. Just added a link to it on the main 500 wiki page.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:42 pm quote
stickyfrog wrote:
How did I miss that great thread. Just added a link to it on the main 500 wiki page.
I save it under my fav's
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:43 pm quote
I am unable to unlock my tilt lock. It gives me a continuous beep when I unlock it and the system remains locked.

Help!
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:12 pm quote
i attempted to replace the fluid in the system because i had just removed the front forks to replace the steering bearings.

I turn on the key, the horn blast 5 times as warning of low pressure.

If i try and unlock the tilt lock it responds with a long beep.

I just purchased this bleeder:http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-One-man-brake-bleeder-kit/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=46839

but i'm worried no fluid will flow through the system because the tilt lock is in the lock position.

Your help would be greatly appreciated!!
Hooked
2008 MP3-500
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 465
Location: ANAHEIM CA USA
Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:52 pm quote
[quote="805g"]...but i'm worried no fluid will flow through the system because the tilt lock is in the lock position...[quote]

That's correct, you can't bleed it with the tilt lock engaged... I don't know how you can get around this problem of it not dis-engaging!
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:42 pm quote
Anyone have any ideas?
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:31 pm quote
bump for a garaged mp3
Member
Gilera Fuoco
Joined: 06 May 2012
Posts: 12
Location: Göteborg Sweden
Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm quote
What hapens if you sit on te saddle to apply weight for the sensor, and then let the engine go up breifly to approx 2000 rpm? That should release the lock, as part of the normal operation of the locking mechanism

Sometimes needed on my bike, and it seems correlated with having left the bike for more than a day in the locked state
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:33 am quote
Using the engine gives the same result as the switch. A continuous long beep and it does not get out of the locked mode.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:18 am quote
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:37 am quote
double clicking it doesn't help?
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:14 pm quote
nope, i'm afraid that i'll have to dismantle the unit, but i am not familiar with it whatsoever.

Can the scooter be used without the tilt lock system? because i'm getting to that point...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:27 pm quote
before I did that I would pressure put fluid in on one end and at the same time vaccum the other to try and get fluid into the tilt lock assy.

have you tried to manually electrically force the unit open by disconnecting it electrically and hitting it with a direct voltage in 1 direction then the other?
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:30 pm quote
old as dirt wrote:
before I did that I would pressure put fluid in on one end and at the same time vaccum the other to try and get fluid into the tilt lock assy.

have you tried to manually electrically force the unit open by disconnecting it electrically and hitting it with a direct voltage in 1 direction then the other?
I will attempt the pressure of the fluid back into the assembly.

As far as electrically forcing it open, i would need a lot of direction before i felt comfortable with that.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:47 pm quote
I have attempted to pressure fill the system with no luck.

I still get the long beep.

Any more input would be greatly appreciated. Any of you visiting the Santa Barbara area anytime soon?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:54 pm quote
alright. lets do the steps

have you got your front brakes to pressure up yet?

can you post pics of your setup?

my concerns are if you haven't got your front brakes right you might be missing something for your tilt lock.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:09 pm quote
Thank you for bring patient with me.

I was able to unlock the system by connecting the battery to the motor, unlocked it boom. Genius idea. I never would have thought of that. thank you. I pressure filled the system from the bleeders. No horn no beep, and it locks and unlocks.

Tomorrow I will pressure fill the front brakes from the bleeders. Then test ride. Re-adjust the front forks for play. Then reassemble the scooter plastics. i can't wait to have my 3 wheeler on the road again!!!!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:50 am quote
805g wrote:
Thank you for bring patient with me.

I was able to unlock the system by connecting the battery to the motor, unlocked it boom. Genius idea. I never would have thought of that. thank you. I pressure filled the system from the bleeders. No horn no beep, and it locks and unlocks.

Tomorrow I will pressure fill the front brakes from the bleeders. Then test ride. Re-adjust the front forks for play. Then reassemble the scooter plastics. i can't wait to have my 3 wheeler on the road again!!!!
sounds like your on the right track again.
Hooked
2008 MP3-500
Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 465
Location: ANAHEIM CA USA
Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:31 am quote
805g wrote:
...I was able to unlock the system by connecting the battery to the motor, unlocked it boom. Genius idea. I never would have thought of that...
Can you post a picture showing how you made that connection?
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:22 pm quote
i made a circuit with the battery through the plug that goes into the electric motor on the right side of the scooter.

Basically grounded one side and applied battery power through the other (it is only a two wire plug).

At this point i am struggling with the braking system. I have bled it multiple times from the top with extremely mushy results. I just read that using teflon tape on the bleeder will make it so it doesn't leak bubbles into the system. Any of you have experience bleeding the front brakes?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:29 pm quote
805g wrote:
i made a circuit with the battery through the plug that goes into the electric motor on the right side of the scooter.

Basically grounded one side and applied battery power through the other (it is only a two wire plug).

At this point i am struggling with the braking system. I have bled it multiple times from the top with extremely mushy results. I just read that using teflon tape on the bleeder will make it so it doesn't leak bubbles into the system. Any of you have experience bleeding the front brakes?
I did mine from the bottom, using the vacuum method and adding fluid up top when needed.

basically after putting the fitting and hose on the nipple bleeder you pump the vacuum up 15 times or so . got mine to around 25 psi, then I cracked the bleeder and let the vacuum pull fluid down to about 5 psi left and closed the bleeder. did that about 5-6 times each caliper.
Molto Verboso
Honda CTX 700D, MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 1145
Location: Louisville, KY
Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:15 pm quote
805g wrote:
i made a circuit with the battery through the plug that goes into the electric motor on the right side of the scooter.

Basically grounded one side and applied battery power through the other (it is only a two wire plug).

At this point i am struggling with the braking system. I have bled it multiple times from the top with extremely mushy results. I just read that using teflon tape on the bleeder will make it so it doesn't leak bubbles into the system. Any of you have experience bleeding the front brakes?
First things first.

1. Remove the small rubber inspection cover on the left side of the gearcase of the tilt-lock mechanism.
A. if the piston and the operator are bottomed out then the cylinder is not in the relaxed position.
B. if the lever operator and the piston are in the up position, then refilling and bleeding can be done.
2. The best way is to pressure feed from the bottom cylinders. YES, you will have to tape the bleeder fitting.
3. Alternatively, it is possible to use a vacuum to bleed from the cylinder bleeders. One at a time, very slowly, and be certain the fluid level in the tank is never allowed to become empty.
A. Hook the Mity-Vac to the collection bottle then the bottle to the bleeder screw.
B. Pump the Mity-Vac until the pump doesn't get any more on the guage.
C. Release the bleeder screw only slightly to allow a slight flow, stopping the flow by tightening the bleeder before the vacuum is exhausted.
D. Pump again and repeat step 3.C. until there is no more dark fluid and/or the fluid runs without air bubbles.
4. It will be necessary to engage and disengage the operator mechanism a couple of times to reset the piston seals.

Basically, the same procedure can be used for the brake systems.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:32 pm quote
I am completely stuck with getting any pressure into my brakes. I have bled them multiple times, both at the same time; and then one at a time, left right left right.

I used teflon tape on the bleeder screws as suggested in another post. I feel like i have gotten rid of any bubbles, but when i seal the cap on the reservoir i simply have no pressure when squeezing the brake lever.

The only thing that i can think of is that there is some sort of leak in the "plunger" that the brake lever pushes underneath the reservoir. I hear a squish squish that almost sounds like there may be an air leak, but there is no evidence of fluid coming from that point.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. day 3 working on the brakes and not getting anywhere has left me quite frustrated. IF I were to bring it into a motorcycle shop, how much would i expect to pay to have the brakes bled?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:51 pm quote
how was your brakes prior to you trying to bleed them?
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:15 am quote
They were perfectly fine.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:22 am quote
805g wrote:
They were perfectly fine.
I dod suspect you got air in and missing something little that is allowing air to come in while your trying to bleed them. Its probably just a technique thing. You could also try and doing them the old way of manually bleeding them. Using the lever and slowly pumping fluid on each stroke while 1 person is opening and closing the bleeder on the caliper. the trick is to get fluid starting to come out and closing the bleeder before you fully compress the brake lever.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:32 pm quote
just to clarify, you squeeze the brake lever with the bleeder closed, then release the lever. then close the bleeder, then squeeze the brake lever, then open then the bleeder, then release the lever, then close the bleeder...


is that right? i'll try that tomorrow
Molto Verboso
Honda CTX 700D, MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 1145
Location: Louisville, KY
Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:48 am quote
805g wrote:
just to clarify, you squeeze the brake lever with the bleeder closed, then release the lever. then close the bleeder, then squeeze the brake lever, then open then the bleeder, then release the lever, then close the bleeder...


is that right? i'll try that tomorrow
Yes, that's right.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:46 am quote
805g wrote:
just to clarify, you squeeze the brake lever with the bleeder closed, then release the lever. then close the bleeder, then squeeze the brake lever, then open then the bleeder, then release the lever, then close the bleeder...


is that right? i'll try that tomorrow
no you never release the lever when you open the bleeder

squeexe lever 1 or 2 times hold
open bleeder slightly and slowly keep pressure on lever, the lever will go towards the handle bar , close the bleeder before the lever is fully against the handle bar.
repeat the above at least 5-6 times.
You might have to do this more if you still have a bubble in the line.
top off the resv. but leave a bit of space for the cap and rubber seal. put cap back on resv. test.
Molto Verboso
Honda CTX 700D, MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 1145
Location: Louisville, KY
Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:39 am quote
I think I had a senior moment.
Hooked
mp3 250 2007
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 191

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:22 pm quote
so the only way we were able to get any solid pressure in the brake line was to pressurize each bleeder from the bottom.

The only problem now is that the brakes are engaged at all times
Molto Verboso
MP3 500
Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 1261
Location: Arlington, Republic of Texas
Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:09 pm quote
Re: Bleeding Front Brakes and Hydraulic Lock System.
old as dirt wrote:
805g wrote:
So we bled my front brake and but the lever does not have much resistance.

With regards to the hydraulic locking system, is there a special way to bleed that system?

1. IS the proper fluid dot 4 brake fluid? like the braking system?

2. how do you disable the horn so that you don't have to listen to the 5 honks each time it is locked and unlocked.

3. what are the procedures to bleeding the two systems?

THANK YOU ALL!
un-plug the horn to stop it. Dot 4 is correct. While i have not done it yet but plan to. I am going for the vaccum mity vac method. just keep the reservoir topped off.

just did my fronts today as a matter of fact. also did it with the mity vac. the right front was a bit harder because of a tab really close to the bleed nipple.

I just follow the directions with the vac pump. when the pressure gauge dropped to 5 psi I locked the nipple and repulled a vaccum again, then release the fluid and stopped when down to 5 psi. did this about 5-6 times each side.
OAD, what model of the vaccum mity vac are you using for your MP3?

FM
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 17543
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:16 am quote
Re: Bleeding Front Brakes and Hydraulic Lock System.
FunkyMonkey wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
805g wrote:
So we bled my front brake and but the lever does not have much resistance.

With regards to the hydraulic locking system, is there a special way to bleed that system?

1. IS the proper fluid dot 4 brake fluid? like the braking system?

2. how do you disable the horn so that you don't have to listen to the 5 honks each time it is locked and unlocked.

3. what are the procedures to bleeding the two systems?

THANK YOU ALL!
un-plug the horn to stop it. Dot 4 is correct. While i have not done it yet but plan to. I am going for the vaccum mity vac method. just keep the reservoir topped off.

just did my fronts today as a matter of fact. also did it with the mity vac. the right front was a bit harder because of a tab really close to the bleed nipple.

I just follow the directions with the vac pump. when the pressure gauge dropped to 5 psi I locked the nipple and repulled a vaccum again, then release the fluid and stopped when down to 5 psi. did this about 5-6 times each side.
OAD, what model of the vaccum mity vac are you using for your MP3?

FM
? the one I got at auto zone.
Scooting the Ozarks is a scooter rally held in Eureka Springs, Arkansas offering riders scenic twisty rides, poker run, and more.   Maroon Powersports LLC DBA Scooter Centrale   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion 12Next
[ Time: 0.2468s ][ Queries: 30 (0.1562s) ][ Debug on ]