Vespa GTR 350 will arrive in 2014
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:17 pm quote
XLR8 wrote:
JLB wrote:
I would buy one, buy they have to fix the front end geometry to cure the wobble.
I strongly suspect that the wobble problem has a lot to do with the one-sided suspension combined with the extra weight and larger tires/wheels on the large frame Vespas. I have absolutely no scientific proof for my theory but the problem doesn't exist with the smaller scooters that have less weight and smaller tires/wheels. I've also never seen a one-sided fork on a motorcycle and most are heavier than the large frame Vespas that weigh around 325 pounds.
well the sym/Lambert metal body looks like a 're tooled vespa gts has regular duel front forks so I see this as possible . I hope it dose come to pass I won't Owen a bv my dealer will love me.
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:21 pm quote
Lothar wrote:
Article states 33 H.P. That's a lot of H.P.
That's not just a comment in an article. That is the power output of the current Piaggio 350 engine (one is sitting in my garage )
Benito wrote:
Interesting, this new Vespa will be anxiously awaited by many here.
Judging by how long it has taken for other new Piaggio/Vespa developments to reach the "New World", it may be quite a wait !
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:30 pm quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
The most intriguing thing I saw apart from ABS and traction control was "sequential gearbox as an option". That would be great but I doubt it. Maybe they were refering to an electrically operated variator like in the Burgman that can be used as a pseudo-manual with up and down "shift" buttons but still a CVT at heart.
I'd look more to the Aprilia Mana for a semi-automatic than the Burgman if I was speculating what Piaggio would do.
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:54 pm quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
The most intriguing thing I saw apart from ABS and traction control was "sequential gearbox as an option". That would be great but I doubt it. Maybe they were refering to an electrically operated variator like in the Burgman that can be used as a pseudo-manual with up and down "shift" buttons but still a CVT at heart.
Don't know where the translation comes from, but the source text says "cambio sequenziale", meaning sequential gear change. No mention of an actual gearbox. Either way, it is only a hypothesis, not a fact.

"Tra le ipotesi figurano la disponibilitÓ del cambio sequenziale come optional"
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:11 pm quote
Quote:
Despite having a lump sum at the last show in Cologne, where he was waiting along with the already announced Aprilia Caponord 1200 and Moto Guzzi California 1400 and not submitted to the German event, the Vespa 350 is in the pipeline. In fact, should - and the conditional is a must - to be unveiled at the Milan Show, scheduled for next November, while marketing will start during the next spring.

However, it may be submitted directly to the next year, by the end of June, with an event dedicated as happened with the previous GT, GTS and GTS Super 250ie engine with the engine 300i. In the meantime, we should summarize the assumptions and rumors of future Vespa 350ie with the unit from 33 hp.



Although the current 'Big Shell' may adopt the new engine line Quasar, in the longer of only 6 mm compared to the 300 engine, the Vespa 350 is totally new. It should be marketed as GTS Rally, but the premium brand of Pontedera could opt for the initials GTR. In addition, the range of the new Vespa GT 500 should also include the version that will debut later.

The new 'Big Shell', then, should take the front tires from 13 inches sizes 120/70 and rear 12 inches sizes 140/70. Among the hypotheses include availability of a sequential gearbox as an option and CBS combined braking system for the standard version, while the version that is top of the range will certainly propose the ABS system with ASR traction control.
Google translate.... sounds cool.
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:33 pm quote
Need more 4 speed
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Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:58 pm quote
I'm another one hoping ABS makes it across the pond.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:54 am quote
946 production annoucement imminent in Milan?
Yesterdays buzz about a 350 GTR also included some verbiage about a Quarantesi production launch annoucement in Milan. Anyone see the details? Whats the news?
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:09 am quote
heinlein wrote:
XLR8 wrote:
I strongly suspect that the wobble problem has a lot to do with the one-sided suspension combined with the extra weight and larger tires/wheels on the large frame Vespas.

I've also never seen a one-sided fork on a motorcycle and most are heavier than the large frame Vespas that weigh around 325 pounds.
I had a motorcycle with single side front suspension. It was a great bike. I wish they had continued to improve the concept. James Parker has put a lot of time and effort into it over the years; but it would have meant more with Yamaha's marketing clout. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/smart_money/122_0801_1993_1994_yamaha_gts1000/
They don't all wobble. Mine doesn't, unless I take my hands off the bars. Then I can sometimes feel a small wobble, not as bad as some bicycles with regular forks I've ridden. But then I don't have a top case.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:57 am quote
Anyone know why an Italian website that needed translating is quoting power output in BHP rather than Nm or Kw?
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:32 am quote
Quote:
They don't all wobble. Mine doesn't, unless I take my hands off the bars. Then I can sometimes feel a small wobble, not as bad as some bicycles with regular forks I've ridden. But then I don't have a top case.
I know that they all don't wobble because my wife and I have owned two GTS' and a GTV that did not wobble. I looked at the website re. the RADD, single fork front ends and it looks like all of them had an additional brace to counter the potential for wobble. (see sample picture below) This is exactly why I believe that the large frame Vespas have the potential for wobble. Piaggio should either go to a conventional, double fork or develop an additional brace.

122_0801_07_z+GSX_RADD+.jpg

El Macho
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:53 am quote
The piaggio Vespa stand at intermot must have been the most uninteresting ever. Nothing new at all and nothing worthy of taking a pic.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:06 pm quote


Thanks for trying Doug!
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:19 pm quote
Arno1 wrote:
vintage red matthew wrote:
The most intriguing thing I saw apart from ABS and traction control was "sequential gearbox as an option". That would be great but I doubt it. Maybe they were refering to an electrically operated variator like in the Burgman that can be used as a pseudo-manual with up and down "shift" buttons but still a CVT at heart.
Don't know where the translation comes from, but the source text says "cambio sequenziale", meaning sequential gear change. No mention of an actual gearbox. Either way, it is only a hypothesis, not a fact.

"Tra le ipotesi figurano la disponibilitÓ del cambio sequenziale come optional"
Am I missing something or isn't every gearbox sequential in that they are designed to move up and down through the gears in a set sequence? Then again I guess you can switch through from say 1st to 3rd and skip gears on a manual gearbox. So I wonder if in everyday parlance 'cambio sequenziale' actually means automatic because the gears are definitely used in sequence?
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:03 pm quote
brown_beret7 wrote:
Arno1 wrote:
vintage red matthew wrote:
The most intriguing thing I saw apart from ABS and traction control was "sequential gearbox as an option". That would be great but I doubt it. Maybe they were refering to an electrically operated variator like in the Burgman that can be used as a pseudo-manual with up and down "shift" buttons but still a CVT at heart.
Don't know where the translation comes from, but the source text says "cambio sequenziale", meaning sequential gear change. No mention of an actual gearbox. Either way, it is only a hypothesis, not a fact.

"Tra le ipotesi figurano la disponibilitÓ del cambio sequenziale come optional"
Am I missing something or isn't every gearbox sequential in that they are designed to move up and down through the gears in a set sequence? Then again I guess you can switch through from say 1st to 3rd and skip gears on a manual gearbox. So I wonder if in everyday parlance 'cambio sequenziale' actually means automatic because the gears are definitely used in sequence?
I think they use the term sequential, meaning for every (identical) actuation of the shift lever, the box goes up one gear, vs. say a manual shifter in a car where specific detents are the different gears.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:35 pm quote
DougL wrote:
The piaggio Vespa stand at intermot must have been the most uninteresting ever. Nothing new at all and nothing worthy of taking a pic.
(which is what the Italian source text says. That "lump sum..." stuff is google translate fabrication. It really says: "Notwithstanding the fact that the new Vespa 350 was a no-show at the Intermot K÷ln [...], it is just around the corner.")
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 pm quote
Lothar wrote:
brown_beret7 wrote:
Arno1 wrote:
vintage red matthew wrote:
The most intriguing thing I saw apart from ABS and traction control was "sequential gearbox as an option". That would be great but I doubt it. Maybe they were refering to an electrically operated variator like in the Burgman that can be used as a pseudo-manual with up and down "shift" buttons but still a CVT at heart.
Don't know where the translation comes from, but the source text says "cambio sequenziale", meaning sequential gear change. No mention of an actual gearbox. Either way, it is only a hypothesis, not a fact.

"Tra le ipotesi figurano la disponibilitÓ del cambio sequenziale come optional"
Am I missing something or isn't every gearbox sequential in that they are designed to move up and down through the gears in a set sequence? Then again I guess you can switch through from say 1st to 3rd and skip gears on a manual gearbox. So I wonder if in everyday parlance 'cambio sequenziale' actually means automatic because the gears are definitely used in sequence?
I think they use the term sequential, meaning for every (identical) actuation of the shift lever, the box goes up one gear, vs. say a manual shifter in a car where specific detents are the different gears.
I think so too. You have to go sequentially 1-2-3-4 and 4-3-2-1, and you cannot jump, say, from 4 to 1, like you could in a fully manual.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:10 pm quote
Not to micturate on anyone's parade (including mine, as i would LOVE the 350 GTR to be real), but browsing around that site strongly suggests that it belongs to some dude with a minor track record of automotive writing, with minimal if any access to real insider info. Pretty much a rumor site, like you can find hundreds about things like Apple products, videogames etc. I would not hold my breath.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:12 pm quote
jimc wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
About the title: What does the R in GTR would stand for?
New Proposed Rule: Must Read First Post Before Replying
My bad! The Italian article made not pay attention to the post itself which is as I see now the translation. How nice! Thanks Max.
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:17 pm quote
Max6200 wrote:
About the title: What does the R in GTR would stand for?
Rally
Graham
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Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:51 pm quote
slomojoe wrote:
Not to micturate on anyone's parade (including mine, as i would LOVE the 350 GTR to be real), but browsing around that site strongly suggests that it belongs to some dude with a minor track record of automotive writing, with minimal if any access to real insider info. Pretty much a rumor site, like you can find hundreds about things like Apple products, videogames etc. I would not hold my breath.
Mmmmm.

Credit to Bill Dog on this one...

"refuse to blow a fuse, don't believe the hype.."

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:36 am quote
Now i will have to postpone trading my GTV again in the forlorn hope of something "better"
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:53 am quote
My Italian is very rusty: Did I see 13" front wheel?

If so, that would be a big improvement for handling/stability without losing too much leg room!!!

Nice.

P.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:04 am quote
slomojoe wrote:
Not to micturate on anyone's parade (including mine, as i would LOVE the 350 GTR to be real), but browsing around that site strongly suggests that it belongs to some dude with a minor track record of automotive writing, with minimal if any access to real insider info. Pretty much a rumor site, like you can find hundreds about things like Apple products, videogames etc. I would not hold my breath.
Do you mean like the weeks and weeks worth of unauthorized speculation about an iPhone 5 Apple wasn't making any noise about?

Till they introduced it, anyway....
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:08 am quote
gogogordy wrote:
slomojoe wrote:
Not to micturate on anyone's parade (including mine, as i would LOVE the 350 GTR to be real), but browsing around that site strongly suggests that it belongs to some dude with a minor track record of automotive writing, with minimal if any access to real insider info. Pretty much a rumor site, like you can find hundreds about things like Apple products, videogames etc. I would not hold my breath.
Do you mean like the weeks and weeks worth of unauthorized speculation about an iPhone 5 Apple wasn't making any noise about?

Till they introduced it, anyway....
Yep, the iPhone 5 rumours were far more than idle speculation - there were pretty much no surprises at all for the launch, other than just how shit the new maps were.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:20 am quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
gogogordy wrote:
slomojoe wrote:
Not to micturate on anyone's parade (including mine, as i would LOVE the 350 GTR to be real), but browsing around that site strongly suggests that it belongs to some dude with a minor track record of automotive writing, with minimal if any access to real insider info. Pretty much a rumor site, like you can find hundreds about things like Apple products, videogames etc. I would not hold my breath.
Do you mean like the weeks and weeks worth of unauthorized speculation about an iPhone 5 Apple wasn't making any noise about?

Till they introduced it, anyway....
Yep, the iPhone 5 rumours were far more than idle speculation - there were pretty much no surprises at all for the launch, other than just how shit the new maps were.
So, there'll never be an iPhone 6?
Apple has finally created the last and best iteration of iPhones ever.

Same with Vespa. The 300 is it.
After 66 years, the last and best Vespa ever has been built. A collective sigh of relief can finally be breathed by one and all.

There's nothing else to see here. Ever.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:25 am quote
gogogordy wrote:
Same with Vespa. The 300 is it.
After 66 years, the last and best Vespa ever has been built. A collective sigh of relief can finally be breathed by one and all.

There's nothing else to see here. Ever.
Unfortunately, in the PTW world, "newer" almost always means "bigger", not "better".

Last edited by jess on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:55 am quote
jess wrote:
gogogordy wrote:
Same with Vespa. The 300 is it.
After 66 years, the last and best Vespa ever has been built. A collective sigh of relief can finally be breathed by one and all.

There's nothing else to see here. Ever.
Unfortunately, in the PTW world, "newer" almost always means "bigger", not "better",
The new 125 with the 3 valve engine is newer but not bigger and from all the published info I suspect it is also "better". It also looks like the BV 350 is replacing the 500 so would that be a "better" scoot that isn't "bigger"? Maybe Piaggio is bucking the trend of bigger = better.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:05 am quote
cdwise wrote:
The new 125 with the 3 valve engine is newer but not bigger and from all the published info I suspect it is also "better". It also looks like the BV 350 is replacing the 500 so would that be a "better" scoot that isn't "bigger"? Maybe Piaggio is bucking the trend of bigger = better.
The new 350 engine certainly carries with it some notable improvements, specifically 100hp per 1 liter of displacement and a nice clutch design. But the GTS frame doesn't need 33hp. It needs perhaps 26hp. Stuffing the current BV350 engine into the GTS will mean that, effectively, the frame will need to change to accommodate the increased HP. Bigger brakes -- and thus a larger front wheel -- seem imminent.

And so the trend continues.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:22 am quote
jess wrote:
And so the trend continues.
eventually we will end up back at this and we can start over.

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:54 am quote
Been Told Before
louswheel wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
About the title: What does the R in GTR would stand for?
Rally
Graham
Thanks Graham. Granturismo Rally sounds a bit like a oxymoron. I hope they call it GTS Rally instead.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:03 pm quote
But we know the 350 engine in a GTS chassis isn't possible (or ideal) so I'd expect it to have a different name to go with the new body.

GTR sounds good. GLS might also work....
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:07 pm quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
But we know the 350 engine in a GTS chassis isn't possible (or ideal) so I'd expect it to have a different name to go with the new body.
I do expect the chassis to change. Not because of the engine dimensions so much as the immense power. The BV350 engine would almost certainly fit into the current GTS frame with very little modification if the swingarm were shorter.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:10 pm quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
But we know the 350 engine in a GTS chassis isn't possible (or ideal) so I'd expect it to have a different name to go with the new body.

GTR sounds good. GLS might also work....
Expect it to be a whole new scooter. A stamped steel Vespa, but a new Vespa stem to stern.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:19 pm quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
But we know the 350 engine in a GTS chassis isn't possible (or ideal) so I'd expect it to have a different name to go with the new body.

GTR sounds good. GLS might also work....
For those of us old enough to remember, GLS will always be connected to 1980's Fords - Cortina, Granada, Sierra etc

Sounds like the door is now open on a 'what should it be called' thread...

images.jpg

imagesCA9XRDMR.jpg

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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:21 pm quote
jess wrote:
Bigger brakes -- and thus a larger front wheel -- seem imminent.
Ahhh, no love for twin discs.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:56 pm quote
Oxford Baggs wrote:
Ahhh, no love room for twin discs.
Fixed that for you.
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:09 pm quote
All this negative vibe towards a larger engined GT sounds like the same trad bashing of the original auto Vespa's to me........I personally love progress even if I don't always buy it
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:12 pm quote
jess wrote:
Oxford Baggs wrote:
Ahhh, no love room for twin discs.
Fixed that for you.
Oops, my bad. I forgot that you are a Piaggio / Vespa engineer. They couldn't even put a disc on the fork side of a PX though could they. Buffoons I tell ya!
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Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:20 pm quote
Pepy27 wrote:
All this negative vibe towards a larger engined GT sounds like the same trad bashing of the original auto Vespa's to me........I personally love progress even if I don't always buy it
I love progress too. More HP, even.

Bigger is not progress, though.
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