Vespa GTS 300 super vibrating on take off.
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Hooked
2016 Vespa GTV300 with ABS, 2015 GSX-r600, 2015 CB300F
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 359

Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:08 pm quote
My new GTS super 300 vibrates and rattles quite a bit on take off until I get going a bit. I really notice it under load if I start off from a stop going up a hill. The scooter seems to idle fine and on the stand there is minimal vibration even if I open the throttle a bit, but when riding at very slow speeds it vibrates too much. This is my second 300ie. My first was a 2010, this is a 2012, so I know something is off cause the other scooter didn't do this. Any ideas? I have 500 miles on it.
Addicted
Vespa lxv 125 vie dell moda Chianti
Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 790
Location: Cheshire
Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:19 pm quote
Would that be something tho do with the variator maybe one of the rollers sticking ? Or the clutch not done anything mechanical but these are the two things that will be affected by take off acceleration.
Ossessionato
Vespa GTS Kymco AK550
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 3196
Location: London UK
Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:23 pm quote
Re: Vespa GTS 300 super vibrating on take off.
dkw12002 wrote:
My new GTS super 300 vibrates and rattles quite a bit on take off until I get going a bit. I really notice it under load if I start off from a stop going up a hill. The scooter seems to idle fine and on the stand there is minimal vibration even if I open the throttle a bit, but when riding at very slow speeds it vibrates too much. This is my second 300ie. My first was a 2010, this is a 2012, so I know something is off cause the other scooter didn't do this. Any ideas? I have 500 miles on it.
The scooter hasn't been ridden in yet but I suspect it is more than that-Have you checked your shock adjustment yet?-I'm thinking your symptoms could be caused by the shocks being set to different levels.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38731
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:44 am quote
You'll never notice if the shocks are set to different levels. Remember - some replacement shocks (Fournales) are a single shock instead of the stock dual ones.

It may just be the clutch shoes need to bed in - so no slow starts for the time being, give it some beans on take-off.
Hooked
vespa gts 300i super
Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 326
Location: England uk
Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:36 am quote
Instead of asking questions on here, you would be better off taking it back to shop its while its still under warranty,

if you mess with it you could end up with no warranty,
assuming it was new when you bought it

scoot should have a smooth take off with no rattles
Lurker
2008 GT200
Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:54 am quote
Vibration During Acceleration from Stopped/Idle Position
This may be an "apples and oranges" comparison. My 2008 GT200 tends to vibrate when accelerating from a stopped position. It feels like the belt chattering, which I believe is what it really is. The humidity in the air here at the coast is a great contributor. Rains especially magnify the "chattering". It's not a noisy chatter. It's only felt after the scooter has been parked all day in a humid environment. Once I've run a mile or so, stopping and starting are as smooth as can be. At about 6K miles, I decided to replace the belt and the rollers to try to prove or disprove that theory that the belt might be "chattering". Everything was inspected and cleaned. Nothing out of the ordinary was found other than some normal residue from the clutch pads, and possibly some belt residue, although the belt looked very much like the replacement belt. So nothing real conclusive. The "chatter" did reduce a great deal, so not a total loss. I did make one very serious error due to a misunderstanding about the torque spec for the spring-washer/nut on the crankshaft. The service manual I believe has a low spec for this nut. I had been advised to use an air wrench, and tighten the (new) nut as "snug" as it would go, then, add a couple of quick bursts of the gun. This, after applying Loctite to the shaft, of course. You really don't want to know what happened after a couple hundred miles All I dare say is that I gained a whole lot of experience tearing down the engine..........all the way.......to replace the crankshaft. Now, at 9K miles, it's been running flawlessly. My "error" was missing the one parameter for torquing that spring-washer/nut. In hindsight, I found the source of how to tighten that nut was based on an electric gun......set to roughly 125 foot-pounds. Mine was an air wrench supplied with an estimated 80 psi at the time. Not even full tank pressure. That thought never occurred to me! Although my air gun was set to the highest torque setting, using a much lower pressure really made a case of apples and oranges between the electric gun and my air gun when tightening that nut. Believe me, that was a painful learning experience, but also a good experience in rebuilding an engine. I dare say that if I had it to do again, I wouldn't hesitate to do it. Purchasing a new crankshaft, gasket kit (which contained gaskets for 2 different models) and other O-rings that didn't come in the kit was very expensive. One particular oil seal/ring used on the crankshaft was only available in a quantity of 20. That in itself was $150, or thereabouts, for the 20. I suppose I have a lifetime supply of those oil-seals. I did have to borrow some special tools for the tear-down and rebuild. What I couldn't find, I made myself. It was all worth it in the end. The greatest gratification was when I re-installed the engine/ transmission/ rear axle unit back into the scooter. It started up the first time, and purred like a kitten. That made my day! And lesson well learned about that spring washer/nut. I didn't know at the time that the nut is a one-time use ONLY. I now have a couple of new ones. I'm sure that I'll need them down the road.
Oh, by the way, I'm not a mechanic by trade. If I can rebuild an engine, anyone can
But, bottom-line, humidity seems to be the culprit of the belt "chattering". I retained my "old" belt since it was hardly worn at all.
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:59 am quote
This is the classic symptom of dust in clutch bell. I can't imagine that being the case with so few miles on it unless you have been consistantly taking off from a stop too slowly. As Jimc said, gun it on take off. You can blow it out with compressed air behind the round chrome cover on the transmission housing. I would not personally use brake cleaner.

FAQ: Shudder, graunching noise on take-off? Sealion?

@TommyLee52 - use a torque wrench to re-torque the variator nut.
Lurker
2008 GT200
Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:37 am quote
Vibration During Acceleration from Stopped/Idle Position
Many thanks Hachi. I would never use a solvent, or anything even remotely oily in there as well. Any residue could be a trap for moisture, or particulates which can accelerate wear of the components, and also cause slippage. I do keep the intake air vent clean on the housing, as well as keeping an eye on the clear tube/indicator for dust accumulation in the housing. It's not very scientific, and can be misleading. I'm keeping my eyes open for the pulley stop-wrench, or a similar spanner wrench used to tighten the driving pulley lock nut. Surely cheaper than the alternative! I may even have one made.
Getting on the throttle from a dead stop hasn't been real helpful, in general. I have to believe that humidity plays a part as a warm rainy day really magnifies the "chattering" feeling. On rainy slick surfaces, I tend to be very conservative about getting on the throttle at all. In the summer, that's almost every day I do give its share of getting on the throttle when conditions permit, but I'll give that a little more focus.
Thanks again Hachi.
Oberlehrerhaft
GTS 250 w/ 43,000 mi
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1462
Location: Deceased, (MV member 2006 - 2014).
Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:39 am quote
Re: Vespa GTS 300 super vibrating on take off.
dkw12002 wrote:
My new GTS super 300 vibrates and rattles quite a bit on take off until I get going a bit.
Is this accompanied by the sound of a sea lion in heat?
Hooked
2016 Vespa GTV300 with ABS, 2015 GSX-r600, 2015 CB300F
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 359

Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:47 am quote
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll mention it to the dealer at the 600-mile oil change. I do think it is clutch/idle related though. The shuddering is similar to what you would find if you tried to climb a hill on a motorcycle in too high a gear. Like I say, going up an incline is where you really notice it. Once the RPMs and speed pick up, it's smooth riding.
Member
2012 300 GTS Super , 2005 ET2 2T
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 35
Location: Vancouver, BC
Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:38 pm quote
So, did you figure out what the issue was?

I too am having a similar problem.

ONLY happens in the first10 kmh range and then its fine.

I have almost 6k on my 2012 GTSie Super.

It has always done this.

Problem is that I cannot drive slow because it is embarrassing with the violent clunking, and it just does sounds like the whole engine is about to explode.

It happens, and then it smooths out as though nothing happened at all.

This is a regular occurrence.

Has anyone figured this issue out yet?
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:54 pm quote
anjosef, when you accelerate slowly from a stop the clutch slips and tends to glaze the pads and bell and causes dust to accumulate. If you remove the round chrome cover on the transmission housing and blow it out thoroughly with compressed air you will be able to tell a difference. Otherwise you can remove the transmission cover and scuff up the bell and pad with some semi-course sandpaper and blow everything out while you are in there. This is a known issue and can be minimized by accelerating quickly from a stop.
Hooked
2016 Vespa GTV300 with ABS, 2015 GSX-r600, 2015 CB300F
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 359

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:09 pm quote
I know this was mentioned, but why would you have dust on a new scooter which mine was? No, I never got it taken care of. I just got used to it. Actually, it may be a little better. My experience with motorcycles and scooters is that when you notice something weird like this, it can never get fixed. Worse yet, some dealers act like they don't know anything is wrong. I've been through rough running scooters, this problem, clunky forks, stalls, etc, that never get fixed and eventually I trade it in and hope for the best on the next one. This applies to cars too generally. That is my experinece. When you get a bike and it runs good......hang onto it cause it will run good a very long time. That's my nutshell take on scooter problems and how to deal with them.
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:16 pm quote
dkw12002, Did your scooter do this when it was brand new or after you had 500 miles on it? I assure you that dust does accumulate in the clutch bell and transmission housing. Did your dealer ever inspect the transmission?
Hooked
2016 Vespa GTV300 with ABS, 2015 GSX-r600, 2015 CB300F
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 359

Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:25 pm quote
When it was brand new...leaving the dealer or at least under load going up my driveway and launching from traffic lights...still does. I either gun it to get past the vibration or do the opposite, take off slowly and then it's not so noticeable. I have not brought it up to the dealer though. If you ever felt a motorcycle with a clutch when you are going too slow in a gear, it's like that. I figured maybe the rollers are not rolling properly.
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:13 pm quote
dkw12002, I am sorry that you are having problems with the clutch. I have read on here that while the clutch is "bedding in" it can show similar symptoms. How much longer before your first belt change is due? If the shop does it right, and cleans out the clutch,etc., then you will notice a big improvement.

I have had these exact same symptoms and blowing out the transmission has helped dramatically. I avoid slow take offs but still have to blow it out occasionally. I just blew it out last week for the heck of it and got quite a bit of dust.(It is like brake dust)
Member
2012 300 GTS Super , 2005 ET2 2T
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 35
Location: Vancouver, BC
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:51 am quote
Hachi wrote:
dkw12002, I am sorry that you are having problems with the clutch. I have read on here that while the clutch is "bedding in" it can show similar symptoms. How much longer before your first belt change is due? If the shop does it right, and cleans out the clutch,etc., then you will notice a big improvement.

I have had these exact same symptoms and blowing out the transmission has helped dramatically. I avoid slow take offs but still have to blow it out occasionally. I just blew it out last week for the heck of it and got quite a bit of dust.(It is like brake dust)
Hachi,

thank you for your reply.

I did more research and found a very helpful, previous discussion about this:

That good 'ol clutch shudder...


courier68 mentioned:

".....or get a Dr Pulley HiT clutch. No clutch judder, no slippage, no increasing revs and then waiting for the back wheel to catch up. Just instant acceleration and gobs of torque across the rev range.
And no, I have no affiliation, I just love my HiT Clutch!"


Would replacing the clutch solve this issue?


It seems unreasonable to have to blow out dust, or use brake cleaners, or deglaze/scuff the bell every couple of hundred km. That violent of a shudder must be having some impact on something else inside there.

I would prefer to simply repair the issue instead of clean it until it breaks, and then get another and repeat. This issue just seems ridiculous considering the cost of a brand new 300 GTS. This issue started from day 1 and has not improved or gotten worse in the 5000kms Ive driven it in the last 5 months.
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:46 pm quote
anjosef, I don't know anything about that clutch or whether it will solve your problem. With the exception of Dr Pulley sliders everything else in my transmission is stock.

How often do you take your scooter out on the highway or do you use it mostly in town?

Here is a quote from my 2005 owner's manual which I would think applies to your scooter also, "If you need to stop on a hill gradient (traffic lights, stops signs etc.) restrain the vehicle with the brakes alone (engine should be idling). Using the engine to hold the vehicle can cause the clutch to over heat. Overheating is caused by prolonged slipping of the centrifugal clutch. Apart from the example above, the clutch will tend to slip when tackling very steep gradients with a heavily laden vehicle."

Avoid prolonged slipping. It is the nature of the beast to glaze over from slipping the clutch. Avoid slow take offs. Get out on the highway to keep it blown out. Inspect the air inlet filter and make sure that isn't too dirty or clogged with leaves or other debris.

You said, "It seems unreasonable to have to blow out dust, or use brake cleaners, or deglaze/scuff the bell every couple of hundred km."

I have a small compressor at home and I bet that I can take the round chrome cover off, blow out the dust and put the cover back on in less than a minute. I try to do this every thousand miles or so or if I hear it start to shutter. You can also take the front inlet cover off and blow in there and also through the outlet hole at the bottom. I usually don't have to because most of my miles are at higher speeds(which helps keep the transmission dust blown out) and I avoid slow starts and travelling less than about 15mph.

Just make sure that at every belt change the clutch "shoes" and bell are properly scuffed up and try to avoid slipping the clutch.

I hope everything works out for you!
Ossessionato
2005 GT 200
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2083
Location: Montgomery,Alabama
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:56 pm quote
anjosef wrote:
This issue started from day 1 and has not improved or gotten worse in the 5000kms Ive driven it in the last 5 months.
I'm afraid I missed this part. Why not complain to the dealer and tell him there is something wrong with your clutch. He should repair it under warranty and give you better advice than I ever could.
Hooked
2016 Vespa GTV300 with ABS, 2015 GSX-r600, 2015 CB300F
Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 359

Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:49 pm quote
Traded in my 2012 300 super with 2400 mi. for a new 2014 300 GTS. This is the 3rd one I've owned now and the best of the 3. No vibration on takeoff. I never dealt with trying to get that fixed on the other bike. The mechanic said it was probably rollers not all moving out at the same time.

Funny though how you can often discover in the first few seconds of riding a bike something that you like or don't like about it and how that often stays with you the entire time you have a bike. Luck of the draw, I guess.
Member
Px200, Gts300SS
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia, Dubrovnik
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:05 pm quote
Did anyone manage to sort out this juddering issue? Is there any performance/aftermarket clutch that will work better? I have read in some post that after installing a J-costa vario, juddering disappeared...is that possible?
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