Gts throttle body HELP!!!!
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Member
VESPA GTS 125ie SUPER
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE
Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:59 pm quote
Help Anyone!!
My vespa Gts 125 Super ie 2010 plate refused to start after a petrol stop 3 mths ago , It turns over but wont start
I ended up taking it to my local main dealer to fix, After 3mths of them trying to find / fix the fault at my expense, (385 in labour upto now) They have now told me they "THINK" Its the throttle body unit.
Ive looked into these & the cheapest i can find is 315, I am abit reluctant to pay this when they only think its this!
I dont have that kinda cash to throw at a 2yr old scooter, just outta its warrenty. Has anyone else had the same problem or know of any 2nd hand units for sale for the above model?
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Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:51 pm quote
Easily checked by substitution with an un-programmed one (which you should not be charged for if that isn't the problem). A decent dealer will have one on the shelf, or be prepared to keep one there if it doesn't prove to be the culprit. All part of their diagnostic kit really.

They don't sound like a very clueful outfit, whoever they are...
Molto Verboso
'09 GTS 250 ie
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 1941
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:48 am quote
They think it's the throttle body? I assume they want you to foot the bill for their thinking? Recently, I remember folks thinking the world was going to end on December the 21st, my mother's birthday was the following day and did I ever get in trouble for not getting her anything. With their thinking, I thought...... .. ., who would have thought?
Member
VESPA GTS 125ie SUPER
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE
Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:58 am quote
Cheers for replies guys, yeah its mainly a motorbike shop but they are the main dealer for vespa in my city, i think they are just salesmen & dont have much knowledge re the scooter side
They dont seem to have any spare parts in store & everytime i speak to them i get the reply "we,ve asked piaggio!"
They,ve told me they had to take engine out to check whether the fuel pump was faulty, is that the case? does the engine have to come out (at a cost of 85) to check fuel pump? i dont know.
Molto Verboso
'09 GTS 250 ie
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 1941
Location: Midway, Kentucky
Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am quote
Definitely not. It either runs or it doesn't. Why would you need to take the motor out of the scooter to determine that it's not functioning. I think I would find someone else to have a look at your scoot.
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2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:10 am quote
No, the engine does NOT have to come out. With the centre-stand on a bit of 4x6, and the rear shocks released, the engine swings down enough to remove the fuel tank. Still quite a bit of work, but it's been documented enough times here that a pair of mechs working together can do the job of fuel pump replacement in 15 mins. One guy working alone? An hour's charge wouldn't be outrageous, but really it shouldn't take more than 30 mins.

This will be the not-so-well-reputed Dyrons I take it...

Look at this post, it explains all about the fuel tank removal:
http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6139
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 3929
Location: San Jose CA
Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:19 am quote
MOXSTER wrote:
Cheers for replies guys, yeah its mainly a motorbike shop but they are the main dealer for vespa in my city, i think they are just salesmen & dont have much knowledge re the scooter side
They dont seem to have any spare parts in store & everytime i speak to them i get the reply "we,ve asked piaggio!"
They,ve told me they had to take engine out to check whether the fuel pump was faulty, is that the case? does the engine have to come out (at a cost of 85) to check fuel pump? i dont know.
No need to remove the fuel pump to check it. That's silly.

I would run away from that shop.

IMHO

R
Addicted
GTS 125 I.E.
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 824
Location: Belgium (lies on the left from the moon)
Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:00 am quote
do you hear your fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition key ?

also, did you check the kill switch ? is it on and you just overlooked it or maybe the switch is faulty ?

why i ask ? because you never metioned that the scoot did weird before you stopped for fuel, a scooter can not have a major breakdown from running fine the first moment and at the next start does totally nothing anymore...

...sparkplug also comes to mind...
Member
VESPA GTS 125ie SUPER
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE
Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:53 pm quote
Yeah i tryed the spark plug before i took it to them, no joy, the fuel pump was also done on a factory recall, they checked & said yes pump was fine.
Apparently theyve had a vespa rep come down & its him thats saying he THINKS its the throttle body unit!
They,ve had it 3mths now.
Ive just today managed to find a unit for 225 from the Netherlands, website says its free shipping so if cant find a 2nd hand 1 soon might have to bite the bullet & get that
If that doesnt work them im gonna tell em to keep the fooking thing!!!!
Also going to try get the engine put back in for free as a good will guesture.
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2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:34 am quote
If you buy a new, unprogrammed throttle body, and *without programming it* prove the bike still doesn't start, then you can always sell it on, as someone else will want one, just like you.

If the bike starts (it won't go above 2,000rpm), then you know that was the problem and can then program it.

However IMHO the shop should take on this task - they could try one from a new scoot (just swapping the RFID chip in the brown keys).
Member
VESPA GTS 125ie SUPER
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE
Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:03 pm quote
Thanks for that, i,ll ask them about trying that, they did say it had to be exactly the same model though due to the pins being different? dont think they,ve got 1 in, all 300s i think .
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2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:07 am quote
It does have to be the same model, as apart from pins the parameters for injection, timing etc are all different.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GT200L
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 1393
Location: Charleston, SC
Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:03 pm quote
jimc wrote:
No, the engine does NOT have to come out. With the centre-stand on a bit of 4x6, and the rear shocks released, the engine swings down enough to remove the fuel tank. Still quite a bit of work, but it's been documented enough times here that a pair of mechs working together can do the job of fuel pump replacement in 15 mins. One guy working alone? An hour's charge wouldn't be outrageous, but really it shouldn't take more than 30 mins.
In the real world, you don't take a couple of techs, fill them up with crystal meth, point to a bike in the parking lot and say, Change the fuel pump as fast as you possibly can. Here's a block of wood, go to it.". The bike is brought into the shop, which takes time, placed on the lift, which takes time, the problem is diagnosed, which takes time, the job is done right and well, which takes time, and the bike is put back together and moved out of the shop, which takes time. Every time I hear that a job like this can be done correctly in half an hour, I offer to hire the person who says it. Charleston is a great place to live, and we've got a lot of work, and we are the highest paying shop in town. Come on down, and I'll pay you an hour every time you diagnose and change out a fuel pump.
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 31643
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:23 am quote
The "15 minutes" was quoting one of the major MV sponsor dealerships...

I'd be delighted to be paid an hour for changing a fuel pump by myself.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GT200L
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 1393
Location: Charleston, SC
Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:10 pm quote
jimc wrote:
The "15 minutes" was quoting one of the major MV sponsor dealerships...
Call them up, tell them you have a Vespa with a salvage title and you need a fuel pump changed. Two guys, fifteeen minutes, that's half an hour. See what they say.
Molto Verboso
GTS 250ie (Nicked) GTS300 Super (Locked)
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 1493
Location: London, England
Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:04 am quote
Even though you are just out of warranty, something like a throttle body should still not fail and you could argue that the bike was not fit for purpose under the Sale Of Goods act.

This would mean that the person who sold the bike to you (assuming they were a dealer/business) would be responsible for a large part (if not all) of the cost to fix that.

You could get some advice from Trading Standards local to the dealer as there are lots of twists and turns but you certainly should not have this sort of prolonged trouble/diagnosis.

The point is, regardless of a warranty length, an item can be expected to last a certain amount of time and if it does not you can claim costs for a repair outside of the warranty period (FWIW VW replaced part of my abs last week FOC "under warranty" even though the car is 8 years old and there was no recall).

"Last for a reasonable length of time in a reasonable condition

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 doesn't say exactly how long goods should last. The general rule is that goods should last for a reasonable time and in reasonable condition. For example, a new car should last for several years in a reasonable condition but you may need to replace some of its parts over time.

If goods don't last as long as they should, they probably weren't of satisfactory quality when you bought them. For example, if the sole on a shoe comes away after a few weeks of normal wear, this suggests that it was never of satisfactory quality.

You may need an expert's opinion on how long a particular item can normally be expected to last."
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