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@mvtroiano avatar
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Molto Verboso
MP3 500 'JAZZ'
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I am sick and tried of removing that ^%&*$% air box on my 500 or any other one for that matter! I finally went back to the K&N filter since I have to change my belt in less than 600 miles anyways. I also purchased the filter cover that matches the air cleaner, and it does tone the noise down quite a bit.

BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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@bigbadger avatar
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2008 Piaggio MP3 500ie
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UTC quote
What? No parts-list?
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
bigbadger wrote:
What? No parts-list?
Darn locals

Hugger fender - A&S motorsports $35
K&N air filter - RB 0500 about $25 amazon.com
K&N filter cover RU 0500PK- $18 amazon.com
JPEGS oil/air separator 52205 - $48 amazon.com

Misc crap: 2 feet 1/2 ID clear hose $0.37/ft
PVC coupling to join filter to intake bought at Lowes under $2

It was well worth it to drop that air box!
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
mvtroiano wrote:
BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
You're welcome! I like mine... Where do you route the outlet? I plumbed mine back into my K&N filter.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
Shanghai Dan wrote:
mvtroiano wrote:
BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
You're welcome! I like mine... Where do you route the outlet? I plumbed mine back into my K&N filter.
I ran a long tube uphill to an exit hole I created the first time I did this mod. I had a cracked piston at the time, and didn't know that was the problem ;( My tube exits just below the rear lights. I had a filter at the end, but it is hiding in my garage right now. I'll stop by the auto parts store tomorrow and pick another one up.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
mvtroiano wrote:
Shanghai Dan wrote:
mvtroiano wrote:
BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
You're welcome! I like mine... Where do you route the outlet? I plumbed mine back into my K&N filter.
I ran a long tube uphill to an exit hole I created the first time I did this mod. I had a cracked piston at the time, and didn't know that was the problem ;( My tube exits just below the rear lights. I had a filter at the end, but it is hiding in my garage right now. I'll stop by the auto parts store tomorrow and pick another one up.
Cool - thanks! Would be interested in any reports about how much oil you collect in your separator, see how it relates to what I collect...
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BMW K1600 sidecar racer
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UTC quote
K & N Filter
As you said "... I also purchased the filter cover that matches the air cleaner, and it does tone the noise down quite a bit." K & N filters are only good for filter large stones out of the air stream and the very high induction noise levels is the entry card to the "Loud Noise Is A Nusiance Club along with HD straight pipe crowd. Glad you got tired of the noise and racket on an otherwise good ride.
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UTC quote
I'd be concerned about Water Spray, from the rear tire... might choke off the filter with water and/or mud.

Seems to me that some sort of Shield is needed, to prevent that. But that's just me, because I ride rain or shine.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
Very cool. I'll have to take a look at your setup someday soon. Maybe you can take a break from cleaning the garage?
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
ALEXB wrote:
I'd be concerned about Water Spray, from the rear tire... might choke off the filter with water and/or mud.

Seems to me that some sort of Shield is needed, to prevent that. But that's just me, because I ride rain or shine.
I ride everyday to work, and have for the last three years. I would not do this mod without the hugger fender. I also have a cover that is hydrophobic to help keep the water out. So that problem is solved.
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Fuoco
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Fuoco
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UTC quote
ALEXB wrote:
I'd be concerned about Water Spray, from the rear tire... might choke off the filter with water and/or mud.

Seems to me that some sort of Shield is needed, to prevent that. But that's just me, because I ride rain or shine.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
I've also been running this setup for 15,000miles now.

If you don't have the rain cover on then it does choke a little. But with the rain cover never had a problem even in torrential downpours!

I also tried fashioning a 3/4 shield from the bottom of a 2ltr water bottle. It made no difference
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
As an extra "last gap measure" I purchased a universal 3/8" fuel filter, Duralast FF3-8DL, for under $4 to place at the end of my line to catch any oil that may get that far. Since my rebuild at 9,000 miles, I have thrown very little oil into the air box.
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UTC quote
Looks Good!

I'm in the process of plumbing mine in an enclosed Carbon Fiber tube with adjustable lengths of pipe in and out the back. Working on a solution that is not only fairly quiet but "tunable" for sound based on how much length of 2 /3 inch pipe you slide inside the tube holding the filter.

Almost done, have to finish ASAP so better half can fit her Shelby back in the garage! It's all these mods that made me give it a shot.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I just came back from a 100 mile round trip highway ride. All looked and held up just fine. Best part was that there was no oil in the separator either

I checked the tube this morning and found what I would consider one drop of oil colored liquid. It was as fluid as water but the color of oil. Not bad. The Oil/air separator does work!
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I didn't get much of a chance to ride this summer due to a big trip back east. I finally got a chance to get rid of a full tank of gas as of today. Normally I go 117 miles, three round trips work-home, but this time I saw a good amount of fuel remaining so I got adventurous.

I actually got more miles then usual this time before the trip meter went back to zero for reserve. I had a total of 156.6 miles with a fantastic mileage result of 79.7 mpg.

This mod is now allowing me to get an entire extra day of travel now. Pretty nice for an MP3 500
⬆️    About 6 months elapsed    ⬇️
UTC

Enthusiast
Piaggio MP3 500
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UTC quote
Cool mod! I'd like to do a similar mod to my 500. Can you post a picture of the ID clear hose , PVC coupling and 3/8" fuel filter and show me where everything goes? Thanks in advance!
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
alenlin wrote:
Cool mod! I'd like to do a similar mod to my 500. Can you post a picture of the ID clear hose , PVC coupling and 3/8" fuel filter and show me where everything goes? Thanks in advance!
Look back through the thread, and you will see very clear pictures where I have placed each item. Sorry no fuel filter change here.

You'll need to bring your filter with you to see which pvc pipe will fit the best.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
mvtroiano wrote:
...I ran a long tube uphill to an exit hole I created the first time I did this mod. I had a cracked piston at the time, and didn't know that was the problem ;( My tube exits just below the rear lights. I had a filter at the end, but it is hiding in my garage right now...
Dumb Question here: What's the purpose of the Air/Oil Separator? Can't you simply run the tube (w/o a separator) to (in your case) below the rear lights, and put a simple fuel filter on the end to prevent entry of any air into the engine? That tube is used to Remove air from the engine, right? (eg Like a typical breather tube on most old engines)... in which case, it would not even need a filter on the end.
⚠️ Last edited by ALEXB on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
[quote="ALEXB"][quote="mvtroiano"]
Shanghai Dan wrote:
mvtroiano wrote:
...I ran a long tube uphill to an exit hole I created the first time I did this mod. I had a cracked piston at the time, and didn't know that was the problem ;( My tube exits just below the rear lights. I had a filter at the end, but it is hiding in my garage right now...
Dumb Question here: What's the purpose of the Air/Oil Separator? Can't you simply run the tube (w/o a separator) to (in your case) below the rear lights, and put a simple fuel filter on the end to prevent entry of any air into the engine? That tube is used to Remove air from the engine, right? (eg Like a typical breather tube on most old engines)... in which case, it would not even need a filter on the end.
On the 500s, under heavy, sustained load (like 90%+ throttle for an hour on a freeway), I get a LOT of oil blow-by. Like 10-15 cc of oil. I use the separator to trap the oil, and let the other fumes recirculate by piping it back into my intake. That way I don't blow oil all into my intake.

Theoretically I could just pipe it out the bottom or rear of the scoot, but I don't want to spray oil, and I don't like getting some dripping on the bike. So I use the JEGS filter to trap the oil and then pipe the gases back into the engine, like a normal PCV system.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
Shanghai Dan wrote:
...On the 500s, under heavy, sustained load (like 90%+ throttle for an hour on a freeway), I get a LOT of oil blow-by. Like 10-15 cc of oil. I use the separator to trap the oil, and let the other fumes recirculate by piping it back into my intake. That way I don't blow oil all into my intake.

Theoretically I could just pipe it out the bottom or rear of the scoot, but I don't want to spray oil, and I don't like getting some dripping on the bike. So I use the JEGS filter to trap the oil and then pipe the gases back into the engine, like a normal PCV system.
So basically you could just pump that air/oil mixture straight into the atmosphere. Yet, by using your Oil Separator, it gathers the oil in a way that's convenient for disposal; and perhaps even gives you an indication of how much oil you're going to need to Add to the crankcase, to make up for the loss?
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
After having the cracked piston replaced my oil blow by is practically at 0. Since I drive at mostly highway speeds it does cause the oil to mist. I have about 3 drops of very light oil in the collection bulb after 5-6 full tanks. Not bad at all.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
ALEXB wrote:
So basically you could just pump that air/oil mixture straight into the atmosphere. Yet, by using your Oil Separator, it gathers the oil in a way that's convenient for disposal; and perhaps even gives you an indication of how much oil you're going to need to Add to the crankcase, to make up for the loss?
Unfortunately, if you fill your engine oil to the "fill" line (not advisable) and run hard, the air/oil mixture dos not dissipate into the atmosphere. The oil gets all over the place on that side. Before the addition of he JEGS separator, I just had a filter on the blow-by tube. Lottsa spray. With the separator, I just put the trapped oil back in the engine. And I moved the filter to a tube on the out flow of the JEGS. I only did this last summer, so I don't have a lot of time with the JEGS, but I think it's a winner. Got a second scoot last spring and used it a lot.
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
ALEXB wrote:
Shanghai Dan wrote:
...On the 500s, under heavy, sustained load (like 90%+ throttle for an hour on a freeway), I get a LOT of oil blow-by. Like 10-15 cc of oil. I use the separator to trap the oil, and let the other fumes recirculate by piping it back into my intake. That way I don't blow oil all into my intake.

Theoretically I could just pipe it out the bottom or rear of the scoot, but I don't want to spray oil, and I don't like getting some dripping on the bike. So I use the JEGS filter to trap the oil and then pipe the gases back into the engine, like a normal PCV system.
So basically you could just pump that air/oil mixture straight into the atmosphere. Yet, by using your Oil Separator, it gathers the oil in a way that's convenient for disposal; and perhaps even gives you an indication of how much oil you're going to need to Add to the crankcase, to make up for the loss?
Precisely. And I do not have to worry about spewing oil over the road or even on my bike (side winds and such).
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UTC quote
mvtroiano wrote:
...JPEGS oil/air separator 52205 - $48 amazon.com ...
FYI, I found a cheap oil/air separator at Harbor Freight for just $7.99
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

They also sell a Mounting Bracket for it (as shown in following image) for ~$3
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


The Oil/Air Separator requires an easy modification to the drain...
It is constantly Open, hence you need to make it so that it is
constantly Closed (and opened manually, only during servicing
to drain the collected oil)... simply replace the drain screw with
a suitable Bolt/O-ring (to seal)/Wing Nut(to open).

I installed mine this past week, mounted on the right side
(using existing mount holes in the under-seat pan, from the
removed smog equipment)... have only ridden a 100 miles or so,
but it's already collecting oil/sludge. I'll post an update after riding
it some more.
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2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
mvtroiano wrote:
I am sick and tried of removing that ^%&*$% air box on my 500 or any other one for that matter! I finally went back to the K&N filter since I have to change my belt in less than 600 miles anyways. I also purchased the filter cover that matches the air cleaner, and it does tone the noise down quite a bit.

BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
Nope... Don't like it...
I think the Piaggio Engineer's know more about this sort of thing...
I would stick with Stock.
Computer makes constant Adjustments with O2 Sensor.

Keith
Marietta, GA
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UTC quote
Re: K&N mod revisited
klaborde wrote:
mvtroiano wrote:
I am sick and tried of removing that ^%&*$% air box on my 500 or any other one for that matter! I finally went back to the K&N filter since I have to change my belt in less than 600 miles anyways. I also purchased the filter cover that matches the air cleaner, and it does tone the noise down quite a bit.

BTW I can't remember who it was, but a big THANKS goes out to the first brave soul to try that JEGS oil/air separator.
Nope... Don't like it...
I think the Piaggio Engineer's know more about this sort of thing...
I would stick with Stock.
Computer makes constant Adjustments with O2 Sensor.

Keith
Marietta, GA
My oil blowby is the same as I had, before I put the K&N mod on. It's inherent in the bigger displacement engines (the local Vespa mechanic even said "hey, nice fix for the oil blowby" when he saw my Jegs oil separator - all the Vespa guys know about it with the big engines). However, with the wide-open intake, I do have considerably more pickup and go... Of course, having 16 times the air intake (40mm tube versus 10mm) only helps things...

For your 250 it might not make much of a difference, but when you're slinging about twice the displacement it does make a big difference. I think the fact that oil blows out of the engine with sustained higher-speed running shows that the Piaggio engineers never really considered how such a scooter (500cc) would be used in a place like the US, where 100+ miles at a shot at 100+ KPH is not uncommon.
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UTC quote
Well I think its a great solution to a known problem and im planning on doing it myself while its down.I love jegs and with the 2 of us riding at the same time at 70 + out on the highway im shure we are pushing oil I can allways use the extra power.
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
I got to meet Honey Badger today, and he brought up a valid point. He had put an air scoop on his air box, and a shop told him to remove it because it was making his engine run hot.

Steve said that running hot will cause your muffler to patina and might cause the valves to burn out. Granted my muffler isn't as brightly chromed as others, but I don't notice any temp increase on my radiator, nor feel excessive heat when I get off of the scoot.

Any opinions on this idea?
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UTC quote
mvtroiano wrote:
He had put an air scoop on his air box, and a shop told him to remove it because it was making his engine run hot.
???

I don't recall any air scoop related overheating issues on the '60s muscle cars with functioning air scoops.
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UTC quote
mvtroiano wrote:
I got to meet Honey Badger today, and he brought up a valid point. He had put an air scoop on his air box, and a shop told him to remove it because it was making his engine run hot.

Steve said that running hot will cause your muffler to patina and might cause the valves to burn out. Granted my muffler isn't as brightly chromed as others, but I don't notice any temp increase on my radiator, nor feel excessive heat when I get off of the scoot.

Any opinions on this idea?
Sounds pretty bogus to me... The amount of forced extra air would be very little and should not even get close to running lean. Heck, double the air through the airbox (equivalent to a turbo at 15 PSI) and you're still at just 1/8th the amount of air my mod can gulp - and it's never run hot at all (muffler still the same color).

I'd like to know their rationale for that. I guess driving in a 45 MPH sidewind is also a danger for running hot?
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2007 GTS
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2007 GTS
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UTC quote
mvtroiano wrote:
I got to meet Honey Badger today, and he brought up a valid point. He had put an air scoop on his air box, and a shop told him to remove it because it was making his engine run hot.

Steve said that running hot will cause your muffler to patina and might cause the valves to burn out. Granted my muffler isn't as brightly chromed as others, but I don't notice any temp increase on my radiator, nor feel excessive heat when I get off of the scoot.

Any opinions on this idea?
only 1 way to know for sure is to do a plug check. Compare the colors to the NGK site.
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MP3 500 (2) MotoGuzzi California 1400
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UTC quote
Hi all.

It was a year ago that I undid the Kydex Ram air scoop on my air box. The scooter ran very well, but then I had a different issue that forced me into Rockridge Twowheels.

Their lead mechanic and shop manager noticed the muffler was discolored from extreme heat, with the patina of burned metal. They took off the muffler, and it rattled with loose debris inside. They said my catalytic converter was disintegrating. They checked my valves, and they were fine. We checked my plugs, and they were discolored from running lean. The excess air was probably the cause for it running extremely hot. There wasn't the proper fuel ratio to keep the combustion temps manageable.

The only thing that had changed since my last service was the air scoop mod. I had it on for only a month. (+/-1000 miles) The Rockridge Twowheels guys recommended that I revert the air box back to normal.

I removed the scoop and patched the air box. I wasn't thrilled about doing so, because I was liking the boosted performance and it looked cool. However, I didn't want to risk any major damage to the scooter. I agree with Shanghai, that it seems odd that a scoop could cause a harmful condition, because I've always modified the air intake and exhaust on every vehicle I've owned with no bad effects, but this time, I'll listen to the mechanics so I don't kill my favorite ride.
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
HoneyBadger wrote:
Hi all.

It was a year ago that I undid the Kydex Ram air scoop on my air box. The scooter ran very well, but then I had a different issue that forced me into Rockridge Twowheels.

Their lead mechanic and shop manager noticed the muffler was discolored from extreme heat, with the patina of burned metal. They took off the muffler, and it rattled with loose debris inside. They said my catalytic converter was disintegrating. They checked my valves, and they were fine. We checked my plugs, and they were discolored from running lean. The excess air was probably the cause for it running extremely hot. There wasn't the proper fuel ratio to keep the combustion temps manageable.

The only thing that had changed since my last service was the air scoop mod. I had it on for only a month. (+/-1000 miles) The Rockridge Twowheels guys recommended that I revert the air box back to normal.

I removed the scoop and patched the air box. I wasn't thrilled about doing so, because I was liking the boosted performance and it looked cool. However, I didn't want to risk any major damage to the scooter. I agree with Shanghai, that it seems odd that a scoop could cause a harmful condition, because I've always modified the air intake and exhaust on every vehicle I've owned with no bad effects, but this time, I'll listen to the mechanics so I don't kill my favorite ride.
what spark plug where you running? any pics?
@honeybadger avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
MP3 500 (2) MotoGuzzi California 1400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1675
Location: SF Bay/Roseville CA
 
Molto Verboso
@honeybadger avatar
MP3 500 (2) MotoGuzzi California 1400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1675
Location: SF Bay/Roseville CA
UTC quote
I've always run NGK's. And unlike me, this time I didn't take any pics. They were singed black on the end of the threaded body, and ashy white on the electrode and metal tip.
UTC

Member
MP3 LT 500 ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 32
Location: France
 
Member
MP3 LT 500 ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 32
Location: France
UTC quote
Just a second thought...Did they eventually checked the oxygen sensor (Lambda sensor)? Could be that it wasn't giving the right feedback to the ECU as well...Other than this, which temperature range are your spark plugs (it's the number on the PN that defines that)?
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
HoneyBadger wrote:
I've always run NGK's. And unlike me, this time I didn't take any pics. They were singed black on the end of the threaded body, and ashy white on the electrode and metal tip.
what number?
@honeybadger avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
MP3 500 (2) MotoGuzzi California 1400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1675
Location: SF Bay/Roseville CA
 
Molto Verboso
@honeybadger avatar
MP3 500 (2) MotoGuzzi California 1400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1675
Location: SF Bay/Roseville CA
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
what number?
I believe they were 8's. They were previously installed by Rockridge at a service interval.

I don't mean to upset the apple cart about air filter mods, but I can only relate my experience...burned plugs, disintegrated cat (resulting in a blocked muffler and blowing out the exhaust header), and being warned by the guys at Rockridge about possible eventual valve issues. For those running the modifications, just be mindful of possible issues. YMMV

The best part of all of it was getting an Akropovic to replace the stock muffler with.
OP
@mvtroiano avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
MP3 500 'JAZZ'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1211
Location: Not on my MP3 ;( - Folsom, CA. -
 
Molto Verboso
@mvtroiano avatar
MP3 500 'JAZZ'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1211
Location: Not on my MP3 ;( - Folsom, CA. -
UTC quote
I tried to post pictures, but my darn camera can't take a good enough close ups Crying or Very sad emoticon I have about 1,000+ miles with this mod on. Since I had some down time today, I decided to pull the plugs. Honestly they look normal as can be. If I was overheating my insulator would be white, and it was a nice speckled tan color. I run mostly at highway speeds for most of my commute.

Right now I feel pretty good with this mod. If others with this mod have the time to pull their plugs, please do and lets compare notes.
OP
@mvtroiano avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
MP3 500 'JAZZ'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1211
Location: Not on my MP3 ;( - Folsom, CA. -
 
Molto Verboso
@mvtroiano avatar
MP3 500 'JAZZ'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1211
Location: Not on my MP3 ;( - Folsom, CA. -
UTC quote
I took a long ride on Friday, and I can no say that my original muffler is no longer chrome but a goldish color. Is that showing that my exhaust is running supper hot? Is this condition good, bad, or even neutral for the scoot?

I also needed to add that my exhaust gasket is shot. I'll replace that at the end of the month with the new tire just in case that too is causing the discoloration.
@heinlein avatar
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Ossessionato
MP3 500, Ducati ST4s, Honda Silver Wing
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Posts: 2649
Location: Roseburg, OR
 
Ossessionato
@heinlein avatar
MP3 500, Ducati ST4s, Honda Silver Wing
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2649
Location: Roseburg, OR
UTC quote
mvtroiano wrote:
I also needed to add that my exhaust gasket is shot. I'll replace that at the end of the month with the new tire just in case that too is causing the discoloration.
I should be back in NorCal by the end of the month and I have a couple gaskets. Let me know if you want them.
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