Vespa 946 Owner notes and impressions
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Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:35 pm quote
I wonder how hard a GTV 300 engine swap would be. I mean, after cleaning up all the cerebral matter off the walls after the purists would hear about it...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11615
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:54 pm quote
Blipvert wrote:
I wonder how hard a GTV 300 engine swap would be.
Well, as someone has observed - darned near anything can be done. It is a matter of time, cost, and effort. The Leader engine in the 946 and the Quasar engine in the GTS are two different designs. They are different physical dimensions, have different mounting points, and the 300 is liquid cooled. It is nothing like a drop-in. Major frame modifications.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:00 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
Blipvert wrote:
I wonder how hard a GTV 300 engine swap would be.
Well, as someone has observed - darned near anything can be done. It is a matter of time, cost, and effort. The Leader engine in the 946 and the Quasar engine in the GTS are two different designs. They are different physical dimensions, have different mounting points, and the 300 is liquid cooled. It is nothing like a drop-in. Major frame modifications.
I dunno. The swingarm points look pretty close. Is the 946 FI or carb?

(edit):

I suspect it'd be something like this: Rosebud LX200 Super Special

I'd need salvage bikes for both. And a lot of beer.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11615
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:17 pm quote
Blipvert wrote:
I dunno. The swingarm points look pretty close. Is the 946 FI or carb?
All Vespas have been fuel injected for quite a while now.
Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 5

Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:25 am quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's white with a red seat, registered late 2014, and it looks to have a larger seat but no rear luggage rack. The seller describes it as a Belissima, but I've only seen pictures of those in silver or blue, so is it really one of the first production run? This is the UK, in case that makes a difference.
Itís a 946 Ricordo Italiano not a Bellissima. Ricordo is white or black. Bellissima is silver or dark blue metallic.
Ossessionato
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 3337
Location: Bromsgrove, UK
Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:18 am quote
torig wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
It's white with a red seat, registered late 2014, and it looks to have a larger seat but no rear luggage rack. The seller describes it as a Belissima, but I've only seen pictures of those in silver or blue, so is it really one of the first production run? This is the UK, in case that makes a difference.
Itís a 946 Ricordo Italiano not a Bellissima. Ricordo is white or black. Bellissima is silver or dark blue metallic.
Thanks. That confirms what I thought.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 188

Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:28 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
Blipvert wrote:
I dunno. The swingarm points look pretty close. Is the 946 FI or carb?
All Vespas have been fuel injected for quite a while now.
Didn't know HOW throwback the 946 dared to get.
Hooked
Vespa 946
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 106
Location: Kent UK
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:33 am quote
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
I've seen a 946 pop up for sale near me for what doesn't seem an entirely unreasonable price [1] so I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here.

It's white with a red seat, registered late 2014, and it looks to have a larger seat but no rear luggage rack. The seller describes it as a Belissima, but I've only seen pictures of those in silver or blue, so is it really one of the first production run? This is the UK, in case that makes a difference.

Unlike a lot of 946s, this one has been used at least moderately, so is there anything to look out for in particular? Is rust as much of a concern as on the regular models?

[1] Ok, it's still crazy for a 125, but not bad for a 946.
Is this the 7,100 mile bike ?
Ossessionato
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 3337
Location: Bromsgrove, UK
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:44 pm quote
Wish wrote:
Dr Zoidberg wrote:
I've seen a 946 pop up for sale near me for what doesn't seem an entirely unreasonable price [1] so I thought I'd ask a couple of questions here.

It's white with a red seat, registered late 2014, and it looks to have a larger seat but no rear luggage rack. The seller describes it as a Belissima, but I've only seen pictures of those in silver or blue, so is it really one of the first production run? This is the UK, in case that makes a difference.

Unlike a lot of 946s, this one has been used at least moderately, so is there anything to look out for in particular? Is rust as much of a concern as on the regular models?

[1] Ok, it's still crazy for a 125, but not bad for a 946.
Is this the 7,100 mile bike ?
Yep, itís local to me.
Hooked
Vespa 946
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 106
Location: Kent UK
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:47 pm quote
Itís the highest mileage one I know. Are you going to buy it ? I spoke to the guy bank in March April time but didnít end up doing s deal.
Ossessionato
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 3337
Location: Bromsgrove, UK
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:05 pm quote
Wish wrote:
Itís the highest mileage one I know. Are you going to buy it ? I spoke to the guy bank in March April time but didnít end up doing s deal.
I donít know. Iím tempted to go and have a look, which usually ends badly for my bank balance.
Lurker
Vespa 946
Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Posts: 1
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:00 pm quote
946 Valve Cover Leak
Hello all,
I'm very new to the site, but have owned this scoot since new in April 2015, with a Mfg. date of May 2014. Only have 1300 miles on her, due to the following condition. When we acquired 500 miles, we put her in the shop for the first maintenance. Since this is not our only "toy", we don't pay her enough attention, obviously. Roughly a year ago, I noticed a small spot of oil on the garage floor. Upon further diagnosis, it was determined to be coming from the valve cover. So, I removed the cover, purchased a new gasket, and reinstalled the cover. She still leaks. It appears that the difference in the "groove" that the formed gasket sits in, and the gasket itself, is a mere .003in. difference. This is not enough to form a seal. I'm curious if anyone out there has experienced this same problem. I noticed a thread from (Scoot) back in 06/17 about something similar, but his issue apparently was a corroded cover(?), which caused his leak. I'd be grateful to anyone with history in this regard! Thank you to all who may have some incite as to what may be the culprit. Peace
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:23 pm quote
Bit late to the party.. 946
HI everyone. I got my 946 (2013 white/red) used in 2018 but never got around to posting. It was like new when I got it, only 625 mi. Now about 3 years later and Iím up to ~6850mi and still loving it. Iím not 100% sure what Ďversioní I have as Iíve seen contradictory posts about US vs Other versions. Not sure about my engine size, and I have all the flat blinkers, so maybe its not US? Not sure how to tell. (And i like my flat blinkers)

I did (probably still do) have the wobbling/vibration issue at around 35-40mph. I noticed it pretty soon after riding regularly and was told it was tire pressure when I asked my dealer, which then took advantage of me and tried to charge me $100 to fill my tires.
I initially went to them with the wobbling and after telling me to Ďfill the tires according to the manualí, which I did; yet when it didnít get rid of the wobble I brought it back. They then filled the tires up to some arbitrary pressure, Ďtestedí it, and tried to charge me for that... (i had other issues with them on subsequent visits and wonít be patronizing them again)

Back to the wobble issue: Iíve spent way to much time trying to find the perfect tire pressures, I even bought a small tire inflator, and valve hose so I could troubleshoot this at home. None of that really panned out. I was able to get the wobble to stop occasionally but with changing weather, the nature of inflatable tires, and the sheer amount of time and effort etc. It was going to become something I was going to have to constantly worry about. Constantly checking pressure and filling etc.

So, I did what most people probably do, and just try to ignore it and live with it.. This has been made easier with the pandemic and me not riding it much this last year, but goes against my nature.

Long story short, i had some starting/battery issues recently, due to lack of riding, and started googling and found this site. Iíd seen it in the past (probably when shopping for scooters) but never really read it. (As i wasnít having issues).

So after reading a ton of posts (and learning a ton about the inner workings of my 946) I was able to narrow it down to a low battery, thankfully. So thanks for that Modern Vespa!

~Wobble Fix?~
I read this whole thread and saw many mentions of the wobble, but no specific fixes. Itís obviously a balance issue, but is it just tire pressure? Or does rider weight, other tire issues, weather, etc. have something to do with it?

I didnít even know about the tension adjustment shock thing, so I have no idea what mine is set to, and I donít know what 12.5G rollers are.. I saw many mentions of Ďrollersí and 12.5G vs other g weights, but NO clue what this refers to. Is this the tire size? The Rim? Something else? Iím not looking to ďmodĒ my 946 right now. I just want it to work properly.

Thanks and hereís a pic.

946.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 5053
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:42 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
Blipvert wrote:
I dunno. The swingarm points look pretty close. Is the 946 FI or carb?
All Vespas have been fuel injected for quite a while now.
The Euro anti-pollution legislation has eliminated the carburetor power supply from all vehicles approved for road use (those with license plate); currently only lawnmowers and small gasoline agricultural tools use it. Until three years ago it was only allowed on ATVs but then the legislation restricted the parameters.
Today in Italy (generally in the EU) only vintage vehicles (registered as such) with carburetor and oil / petrol mixture can be driven; the old vehicles with that system are now few and subject to such restrictions that using them is complex and expensive ... to clarify, they have to pass a very strict two-year inspection in special control centers and many do not receive the approval, plate and booklet of circulation are taken from the owner and the vehicle must be scrapped.
Obviously, this is part of a gradual but severe environmental pollution elimination policy.
FunkTion wrote:
I didnít even know about the tension adjustment shock thing, so I have no idea what mine is set to, and I donít know what 12.5G rollers are.. I saw many mentions of Ďrollersí and 12.5G vs other g weights, but NO clue what this refers to. Is this the tire size? The Rim? Something else? Iím not looking to ďmodĒ my 946 right now. I just want it to work properly.

Wow! How many new people with scooters (Vespa is better) on this forum.
Welcome (man or woman? Age? To understand the target of speech ...) from the city of Latina in central Italy.
The oscillations are often due to the lack of balance of the aluminum rim on which the tire is housed; there are balancing machines and small adhesive weights to be fixed inside the rim to eliminate oscillations .... this if the oscillation depends on the wheel.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6920
Location: New Zealand
Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:06 am quote
Re: Bit late to the party.. 946
FunkTion wrote:
I donít know what 12.5G rollers are.. I saw many mentions of Ďrollersí and 12.5G vs other g weights, but NO clue what this refers to. Is this the tire size? The Rim? Something else? Iím not looking to ďmodĒ my 946 right now. I just want it to work properly.

Thanks and hereís a pic.
Great looking scooter, welcome to MV.

Rollers are in the transmission. You can change the roller weights to tune the power delivery characteristics, or you can just be happy with what you have.

Regarding the wobble, quite likely a balance issue. Have you tried strapping a slab of beer to the rear carrier? I don't really think it will help but you'll have a slab of beer to drink when you get home.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2494
Location: Finland
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:49 am quote
Re: Bit late to the party.. 946
znomit wrote:
FunkTion wrote:
I donít know what 12.5G rollers are.. I saw many mentions of Ďrollersí and 12.5G vs other g weights, but NO clue what this refers to. Is this the tire size? The Rim? Something else? Iím not looking to ďmodĒ my 946 right now. I just want it to work properly.

Thanks and hereís a pic.
.

Regarding the wobble, quite likely a balance issue. Have you tried strapping a slab of beer to the rear carrier? I don't really think it will help but you'll have a slab of beer to drink when you get home.
.. after which [/i]you may have a balance issue, of course...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 5053
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:42 am quote
Re: Bit late to the party.. 946
RRider wrote:
znomit wrote:
FunkTion wrote:
I donít know what 12.5G rollers are.. I saw many mentions of Ďrollersí and 12.5G vs other g weights, but NO clue what this refers to. Is this the tire size? The Rim? Something else? Iím not looking to ďmodĒ my 946 right now. I just want it to work properly.

Thanks and hereís a pic.
.

Regarding the wobble, quite likely a balance issue. Have you tried strapping a slab of beer to the rear carrier? I don't really think it will help but you'll have a slab of beer to drink when you get home.
.. after which [/i]you may have a balance issue, of course...
Molto Verboso
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 1224
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:08 pm quote
The first time I saw a 946 I fell in love.
It is the sexiest scoot I have ever seen.
For a man of my stature living a mile high above sea level, it would have been a disappointment.

If / when Piaggio gets to build a strong electric scooter, putting it in a 946 body style will place it up front in the sales appeal stakes.
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:13 pm quote
So it turns out that my preload was set at 4 all this time!! I changed it to 2 and am out testing now.

When checking it out I also noticed that one of the screws holding on the air filter is gone!! Prob that same crappy dealer/serv. I had. Ugh

Ok back to test /ride. 👍🏻🛵
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:40 pm quote
Attila wrote:
Wow! How many new people with scooters (Vespa is better) on this forum.
Welcome (man or woman? Age? To understand the target of speech ...) from the city of Latina in central Italy.
The oscillations are often due to the lack of balance of the aluminum rim on which the tire is housed; there are balancing machines and small adhesive weights to be fixed inside the rim to eliminate oscillations .... this if the oscillation depends on the wheel.
Oh yes I apologize. Iím Sean, 51 , SF CA he/him 👍🏻

I specifically checked for weights on my rims as this was my first thought. I didnít realize they even had spin balancers for motorcycle and scooter wheels. This would be the logical fix, why is this never mentioned in posts or why didnít the dealer do/recommend it? Or is it too labor/$$ intensive that itís not worth it.

After my short unscientific test ride the wobble is still there. I didnít adjust the air pressure after changing my preload so it could still be that. Tomorrow Iím going to fill them to the psi recommended in the manual and go from there.

Thanks
Sean
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 5053
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:48 am quote
FunkTion wrote:
Attila wrote:
Wow! How many new people with scooters (Vespa is better) on this forum.
Welcome (man or woman? Age? To understand the target of speech ...) from the city of Latina in central Italy.
The oscillations are often due to the lack of balance of the aluminum rim on which the tire is housed; there are balancing machines and small adhesive weights to be fixed inside the rim to eliminate oscillations .... this if the oscillation depends on the wheel.
Oh yes I apologize. Iím Sean, 51 , SF CA he/him 👍🏻

I specifically checked for weights on my rims as this was my first thought. I didnít realize they even had spin balancers for motorcycle and scooter wheels. This would be the logical fix, why is this never mentioned in posts or why didnít the dealer do/recommend it? Or is it too labor/$$ intensive that itís not worth it.

After my short unscientific test ride the wobble is still there. I didnít adjust the air pressure after changing my preload so it could still be that. Tomorrow Iím going to fill them to the psi recommended in the manual and go from there.

Thanks
Sean
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:37 pm quote
So Iíve opened pandoras nightmare..
Thatís what I get for trying to fix something seemingly simple.

So after adjusting tire pressures, etc. I went to find a local shop to get service and possibly address the wobble. The one place I got it, I donít want to go back, and the other place I liked doesnít service Vespa. The only other place that does, said I would be a Ďtest caseí. ďNobody knows anything about these (946), there are so few aroundĒ I was told.

When I asked about the wobble and the service guy did a test ride, ugh.

-Rear tire is bald
-Rear brake lever doesnít active brake light or engine start (Iíve always used the right lever to start, didnít know left was supposed to also work)
-engine is chattery or clattery, asked about the valves being adjusted.
-front end is doing something odd, fork or shock kinda clunks or moves subtly when you grip the brake and push on it, or when going over a driveway or small curb at low speed. (Iíve noticed this but was told by the bad dealer it was nothing).
-crazy oil leak (his words) when we opened the battery area so he could see the tappan cover (sp) to adjust the valves. Iíd never looked at it before, I was very dirty and looked to have oil around the edge, but Iíve never, ever seen an oil drop on the ground where I park it. Again Iíve never looked at this part, but it did seem to be misaligned or the gasket showing or something. (Maybe thatís how it looks..)

But since Iíd be the test case and he didnít seem confident Iím not going to take it there either. I donít want them experimenting for the next month. To me service is a max 1 day w/o thing..

So now I have to find somewhere else to take it. He mentioned somewhere in the east bay, but that presents another set of logistic issues.

The more I think about it, most of the convenience of having a scooter/motorcycle over a car is voided by all the gear/prep/maint issues. /shrug

So any suggestions on a reputable, reliable, place to service a Vespa 946 in San Francisco (area).

Or anyone wanna buy a used 946?

P.S I do have some of those weights on my front wheel after all. (Maybe I should pluck them off)

EDIT: I ended up making a apt for the east bay service place tomorrow, The guy sounded like he def knows what heís doing and understood all of that up there... ^^. Prob going to be $1k though Iím guessing. /sigh
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6920
Location: New Zealand
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:52 pm quote
Looks like it needs some TLC and then youíll be good for another 6000 miles. Did it get a first service?
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:03 pm quote
znomit wrote:
Looks like it needs some TLC and then youíll be good for another 6000 miles. Did it get a first service?
Yes its had all its services, though the very first one was done before I took ownership. I was just told it was done. I did get an oil change at 2500-3500 miles I believe.

Iíve had a few issues with it since Iíve had it (3 years / ~6200 mi)and its showing a bit of wear, but its always been electrical related (aside from the wobble).

I just keep forgetting its really from 2013 even though it was rarely used for its first 5 years, so I guess some of these things are to be expected. Itís been super reliable though, but this last year its sat covered more than its been ridden given COVID.

Iím just excited to get it looked at/tuned up. Though Iím going to be stressed riding over there tomorrow, as this will be my farthest distance travelled on freeways, and that list of issues rattling around my head...
Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 310
Location: San Francisco
Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:32 am quote
Re: So Iíve opened pandoras nightmare..
FunkTion wrote:
So any suggestions on a reputable, reliable, place to service a Vespa 946 in San Francisco (area).
I get my service done at Revolution Moto in Santa Rosa. They used to offer free pickup/delivery in the Bay Area, but I think they charge $75 each way now. (I'm riding it up for service on Saturday to avoid the transportation fees.) Trustin seems to know his stuff. I've always been happy with the service, and they've got the best customer care of any shop I know of.

I get my tires at SF Moto, the local Honda dealer. Honda's miniMOTOs use the same rim size as the GTS, so they usually have tires in stock. The first time they didn't clean the old weight goo off my rim when they replaced the tire, then put weights on that disappeared within a few hundred miles. That annoyed me, but I like the combo of affordable and convenient enough that I gave them another shot. Tony in their parts department is friendly and knowledgable. They don't do major services on current models (though they might for your older one), but they do carry oil filters if you ever wanna change it yourself.

There was a white 946 that used to park next to my green GTS, but I haven't seen it in about a year.
Member
2013 946
Joined: 17 Feb 2021
Posts: 6
Location: San Francisco
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:02 pm quote
Re: So Iíve opened pandoras nightmare..
mayorofnow wrote:
FunkTion wrote:
So any suggestions on a reputable, reliable, place to service a Vespa 946 in San Francisco (area).
I get my service done at Revolution Moto in Santa Rosa. They used to offer free pickup/delivery in the Bay Area, but I think they charge $75 each way now. (I'm riding it up for service on Saturday to avoid the transportation fees.) Trustin seems to know his stuff. I've always been happy with the service, and they've got the best customer care of any shop I know of.

I get my tires at SF Moto, the local Honda dealer. Honda's miniMOTOs use the same rim size as the GTS, so they usually have tires in stock. The first time they didn't clean the old weight goo off my rim when they replaced the tire, then put weights on that disappeared within a few hundred miles. That annoyed me, but I like the combo of affordable and convenient enough that I gave them another shot. Tony in their parts department is friendly and knowledgable. They don't do major services on current models (though they might for your older one), but they do carry oil filters if you ever wanna change it yourself.

There was a white 946 that used to park next to my green GTS, but I haven't seen it in about a year.
Thanks for the info! Good to know.


My 946 is at service now. I have a good feeling about where I took it, they seemed very knowledgeable and engaged. Iím confident the wobble will be resolved after this as well. While its at service they are going to look at the front end, bearings, headset etc. and Iíll probably replace both tires just to be safe.

Iím feeling more and more like the original dealer that sold it to me lied about it, or just withheld information and something must have happened to the front end at some point.
Iíve noticed from day 1 that there was some extra movement /play on the front end, which could be replicated in many different ways. (Hold brakes while stopped and push forward, shock compresses and you can feel other movement, or slow speed approach a bump/curb/driveway and you can feel an extra bump).

I told the orig dealer this, and their service dept. yet they told me it was normal. Now 2 others in 2 days have confirmed what Iíve felt is not normal.

The service guys today also noticed/commented on the paint, which Iíve also noticed but chalked up to age, etc.
There is some odd bubbling near the very front and rear ends, which to me looks like its rusting/rusted underneath and was painted over.
Also the ďleg guardsĒ (vertical panels on the whole front end) seem to be misaligned with the main Ďnoseí down the center causing the paint to become wrinkled in a few places. It almost looks like it has a Ďwrapí or some other type of vinyl coating that has moved or squeezed and has wrinkled. They seemed to think the front fender and Ďnoseí were the same color/paint but the Ďleg guardsí were different. I always thought this was just because they are of 2 different materials, but now Iím thinking it may have been repaired/repainted.? /shrug

Just hoping when I get it back that it Ďfeels newí again. Or maybe feels new for the first time.
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