Lambretta BV500 Project
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Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:24 am quote
So I decided to put a BV500 engine in a lambretta. I received a lot of discouragement, telling me how bad the idea was, so I decided I had to do it.

People kept telling me that it had been done once and that it was a disaster. I then found the bike they were talking about and though: "really?". It had to be possible to do a better job than this....



So I started with what I thought was one of the biggest problems... The front wheel.













Next I sent the wheel to Rocky's wheel works and had it re-trued and once back, powder coated.








Next started working on splicing forks into frame with new bearing cups and shortening fork tubes two inches.







Chop chop on frame, using stock BV motor mount.




Frame tubes bent and start to mock up











Shorten forks, to get rid of the "chopper" look


Original springs vs. new springs for two inch reduction in height.



New height with body first mock ups



widening starts.



And that brings us up to date.

Next I will be finalizing the installation of the bv bearing cups and front end connections. This will allow me to finalize connections of front frame to rear frame.
Ossessionato
Jeep 4dr. Rubicon, Hard Rock
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 2529
Location: Olympia, WA
Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:53 pm quote
Going to be very interesting!!!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:57 pm quote
putting in the effort




could make a nice tourer , should fairly float eh
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:07 pm quote
what forks are you running? stock bv?
piaggio typhoon forks fit pretty well under a stock horncast if the edges are grinded down a little. j/s

great project though.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Reprehensible Misinformant
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 7566
Location: Winchester, California
Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:40 pm quote
Thats gonna be quite a marriage!
Well done.

And those that say "it can't be done" really mean they couldn't do it!

Cant wait to see the finished product....should be quite a goer.
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:51 am quote
bigben wrote:
what forks are you running? stock bv?
piaggio typhoon forks fit pretty well under a stock horncast if the edges are grinded down a little. j/s

great project though.
I went with the stock BV forks, as they interface nicely with the bv hub and disks. Didn't want to get into modifying all of that.

Also wanted the FU factor of having dual front disks.

All I had to do is change the springs for shorter stiffer ones, to shorten the forks. Wasn't happy about widening the front fender at first, but proportionally, it works better with the wider rear end.

One problem I am having now is that i need the metering module, where all the brake lines intersect. Not easy to find.
Enthusiast
LI's and a Jet
Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 76
Location: Petaluma, CA
Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:13 am quote
Glad those panels are out of my garage! Kick ass project too.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:19 pm quote
cool project mate
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:00 pm quote
Well this is very exciting to watch go together. Thanks for taking the pics and showing us what's what as you're doing it. Very cool!
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:25 pm quote
great project, i'll watch intently. its also nice to see more vintage auto projects stateside. if you're not on the series six forum i'd advise it.

what's your intent with accomodating the engine lengthwise? widening the frame past around the tail light/behind the panels or fabricating a huge bridge piece to cover the cylinder?
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:40 pm quote
lambretta projects
If you like this conversion have a look at some of the the completed projects on here http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:52 pm quote
@quaddiekev I am pretty aquatinted with that site.

@bigben what is the series six forum. is it the 300 piaggio engine in the lambretta frame??

Regarding putting the engine lengthwise... I did that to keep the gas tank and air box under the bodywork. I will sink the cylinder head into the floorboards and create a cover for the head. I am trying to minimize the presence of the head, where your feet are. Shouldn't be too much.

@derek m Thanks for the great deal on those panels. I won't hack them up....

here are the latest pictures. I am working on widening the front fender. I also lowered the top frame plate, which was drilled off of the body. I will be creating a "can" consisting of the side covers and center body. This will be on a pivot, like a car hood.












Ride height set at 29.5"

Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:45 pm quote
did a bunch of filling on the body can today. Actually got more done than pictured.

I also modified the frame back to create a resting point for the body can. it will make sense when you see the final.

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Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:46 pm quote
yes and no. the series six forum is an extension of lambrettainnovations site which in turn makes the scomadi TL 250/300 that you're talking about

http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/index.php?mforum=seriessix

but its generally not available through the main gateway, i tend to sneak in through the sub forums

http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10&mforum=seriessix

a huge bridge piece looked like the smartest way to go. if you're great with welding, i may start up a convo with you as i'll likely look to get a customized glovebox setup for my own project, a gts250 engine in a lambretta frame
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:59 pm quote
quick update
doing an update on the forks graft.

Ended up deciding to weld in the cups, vs. brazing and spot welding the tubes. I did this becuase I noticed the connection being a little compromised and didn't want to take any chances.

I did the bottom welding and part of the top tacking, with the forks in place, but i am getting some slight binding in the last 10 degrees of rotation to the right. Frankly it probably wouldn't make much difference, but I might try a little copper hammer on the top cup, to shift it ever so slightly.

Really starting to try and consider how to jig for the connection to the rear.

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Member
Vespa PX125E - Vespa T5
Joined: 28 Dec 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Lisbon - Portugal
Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:28 am quote
Great Project.

Continued.

Cumps.
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:06 pm quote
please tell me you're using a lammy headset and not BV handlebars.

looks good though, a bit wide for my tastes but innovative nonetheless. beats another restoration thread anyday.
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:37 pm quote
bigben wrote:
please tell me you're using a lammy headset and not BV handlebars.

looks good though, a bit wide for my tastes but innovative nonetheless. beats another restoration thread anyday.
The only part of those handle bars I'm using is the neck clamp. I will be drilling out the lambretta tubes and replacing them with new 7/8" tubes, which will connect with the BV bars neck clamp. Just connecting these bars to move the front wheel temporarily.

Did some more work today... Front meets back. These pictures are getting close to final positioning of body. As you can see, you won't have much head to deal with, or much extension to the back.

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Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:21 pm quote
little bit of metal finishing moving forward. I must say that I am pretty rusty.

No pun intended.

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 17006
Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:35 pm quote
quality
them bars look vega-ish
Ossessionato
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 3319
Location: Bromsgrove, UK
Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:32 pm quote
Looking good!
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:54 pm quote
Man, you are a BOSS!

Awesome project thats gonna set the standards man.

kia kaha!
Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 666
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:47 pm quote
pm'ed you btw
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:40 am quote
update
Let me start by saying Geometry sucks. It has taken a week of screwing around to finally come up with a configuration that will allow the shocks and engine to travel.

So photoshop modeling wasn't working out and I tried the Disney method.

Then I finally, with the help of a more skilled frame builder, established the method of deciding where to mock the frame for weld. That is the median point of shock travel. With that I welded on a mock wire for shock end position. Now I could rotate the frame can and establish clearance.

Once i have moved the frame components about 300 times, I found the sweet spot.

With that I was able to do some initial tacking. Now I take this first part of the assembly to a real welder to have it straightened and welded.
Next I will do the nominal mock up for connecting the front to the rear.

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Nominal riding position

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Maximum shock compression.

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This obviously isn't how the bike will be connected. The rear is still independent and this is showing maximum shock compression.

Hooked
GTS 250 a.b.s.
Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 447
Location: Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:11 am quote
I wish I had a workshop like that this build rocks my socks off..!!!

Oh and one other thing..:
That front-brake.. hahha that will sure stop this bike, the disk looks massive on that small wheel.
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:37 pm quote
Bommes wrote:
I wish I had a workshop like that this build rocks my socks off..!!!

Oh and one other thing..:
That front-brake.. hahha that will sure stop this bike, the disk looks massive on that small wheel.
Funny you should say that, about the brakes, I am a little concerned. Might be a little too much stopping power. I just couldn't resist the dual 10 inch disks.

Small update: Shot a laser across the rear wheel today, for reference, and now the first part of the frame goes in for welding tomorrow. With this first section welded, I can connect the rest and weld the side covers on.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Reprehensible Misinformant
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 7566
Location: Winchester, California
Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:44 pm quote
BVbretta
One of the most intriguing projects ever!
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:51 pm quote
quick update. have established extension length and patching in filler. Looks a little messy, but should grind up nice.

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:19 pm quote
blackboard
.duster

Last edited by joshzingzing on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:05 am quote
update.

Dropped first part of frame to be welded. When I went to check, everything crooked, so I spent a couple hours giving the welder a crash course in how to make something straight.

I put the first section in and it was still a bit twisted, so I had to heat the main tube and rotate it a couple of degrees.

I discovered that BV500 rear shocks are offset, so I had to weld up the left bracket and relocate the hole so that the shocks line up.

Next step is to install the shock mount on the rear, then set it with a temporary spacer, to allow for the frame to finally be connected. I have laid in the tube and it looks good.

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Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 am quote
shocks finally getting connected to frame

IMG_20140130_211055.jpg

Hooked
PX200Arcobaleno, Granturismo200L
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 155
Location: Croatia, Europe
Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:26 am quote
Following this one
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:44 pm quote
finnaly arrived at the connection length. The only issue is that the engine mounting bolt is 2/3rd covered. Will work it out.

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Member
PX200 / PX210 / GP125 / RALLY200
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 41
Location: PARIS / FRANCE
Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:02 am quote
It's going to be a rocking Bretta !
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:12 pm quote
I'm lovin' it.. the front wheel/disc brake setup you did is killer! Very cool
Addicted
GTS250
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 507
Location: Trowbridge - England
Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:05 pm quote
brilliant, amazing work.
Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:47 pm quote
struggling with multiple issues. wheel alignment, frame rail twists..... Damn it.

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Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:45 pm quote
We are officially on wheels

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Enthusiast
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 50

Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:46 am quote
after about 100 hours of online research, I have arrived at how I am going to address the hydraulics.

Originally I was going to get remote reservoir levers and put the reservoirs inside the headset. The only financially viable options were in china and I wasn't confident about that.



So I decided go go with a cable activated Remote master cylinder.

Next I looked at remote master cylinders, like the Grimeca. The problem is that the stock bv has a 12mm piston master cylinder and the Grimeca is 11mm:



Next I looked at Karting cylinders, which have bigger pistons, but they are very large and can only be mounted in horizontal direction:



I finally stumbled across this. It is 12.7mm (larger), American, and the price is right.



SO!!!!!!! If anyone has the stock levers, shifter sleeve, and throttle for a GP headset. PLEASE hook me up!! Also need the headlight and ring.
Molto Verboso
07 LX50
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 1977

Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:51 pm quote
What a job! Hey try here .

http://www.scootersoriginali.com/
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