Vespa vs Chinese Scooters
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Addicted
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T / 2009 Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 726
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:36 am quote
Um ... again Iím just not having that experience. I really really like the ZNEN.

Iíve now owned and ridden the ZNEN, the P200E, the Genuine Buddy 170, Stella 4T and most recently an Aprilia Sportcity.

Granted, the ZNEN was ďhigh endĒ Chinese, but with 8K miles so far, it runs better than it did new. I paid around 2k brand new with a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty. I think a lot of the problems people have with them is they buy online, have them shipped to their home with some assembly required. I bought from a reputable dealer who did the PDI before I ever took the bike.

People can hate them if they want, but they are easy to work on, parts are cheap and abundant. An out of all the bikes I have ridden, the ZNEN is hands down the most comfortable and easy to ride out of the bunch.

Now, comparing it to the Aprilia I have a couple of observations. The Sportcity really feels well built. From an engineering standpoint, it appears that the designers were either drunk or the Italians still havenít forgiven us for our involvement in WWII. No offense intended. Itís really nice that the oil drain plug is right out in the open on the side of the case, but did you really have to run the exhaust right in front of it making it impossible to get a socket on it? And the rear gearoil plug. Thank you for placing it center rim. I can see the spark plug, but getting to it? Thatís another story.

Still, so far I love the bike. Itís quiet and smooth and polite. Everything the P200 wasnít.

So, for anyone reading this thread, donít be discouraged if you are considering a Chinese bike for your first ride. Wolf, Bintelli, Lance and others are making great bikes. If you arenít sure if riding is for you, I would highly recommend talking to a dealer and getting into a Chinese bike to start. If you feel the need to buy a Vespa 946 at some point, great.

Again, ride what you love, love what you ride.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:58 am quote
I recently sold two of my Chinese bikes in an effort to lighten my load. Both of them ran great and were solid citizens. The 2008 Bashan had near 10,000 miles and would have lasted for many more.

I kept the 1983 Kawasaki, 1991 Nighthawk 250 and the CF Moto 250. The CF Moto is highly practical with a large top box and a trunk out back but doesn't have the speed of the other two. Someday another China scoot will come. Reviews on the Lance 200 models are favorable.
Lurker
Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 06 Jun 2019
Posts: 3
Location: Kentucky
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:09 pm quote
Any Scooter Is Better Than No Scooter
I have a TaoTao 50, Znen 150 and a Vespa 300 GTS Super. They each fill a niche. If I want to ride to the golf course on an iffy weather day, I ride the Znen and take a raincoat. For days when the weather is perfect, I ride the Vespa. For short trips to town and for when I need to navigate through a crowd, the 50 works like a charm.

Now, if I had to choose between them, I'd definitely keep the Vespa. But, with the other two as options, I can keep the GTS looking better for a long time with minimal additional costs.

Snobs are a dime a dozen in our society, be it watches, clothing, or bikes. Ride what you like and enjoy the satisfaction of being able to forego the car for most trips. All scooters are fun!

BV
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Granturismo 218
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Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:47 pm quote
seamus26 wrote:
Granted, the ZNEN was ďhigh endĒ Chinese, but with 8K miles so far, it runs better than it did new. I paid around 2k brand new with a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty. I think a lot of the problems people have with them is they buy online, have them shipped to their home with some assembly required. I bought from a reputable dealer who did the PDI before I ever took the bike.
It's more accurate to say it's a fairly well built second tier scooter. The State owned companies like QJ get the first pick of the parts and make the real high end Chinese scooters. One of the biggest problems with Chinese scooters continues to be the cost of labor in China. Using people is cheaper than robots, and a lot of the welding and other work that is done by robots in Japanese and European factories, is still done by hand in most of the Chinese plants. The life expectancy of the GY6 in the Chinese bikes is about 12-15k, so you've still got quite a bit of use to look forward to. If this was your only means of transportation, and you take into consideration all the miles you've driven in total since you got it, how much work do you think you would have missed?
Addicted
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T / 2009 Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 726
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:04 am quote
Motovista wrote:
seamus26 wrote:
Granted, the ZNEN was ďhigh endĒ Chinese, but with 8K miles so far, it runs better than it did new. I paid around 2k brand new with a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty. I think a lot of the problems people have with them is they buy online, have them shipped to their home with some assembly required. I bought from a reputable dealer who did the PDI before I ever took the bike.
It's more accurate to say it's a fairly well built second tier scooter. The State owned companies like QJ get the first pick of the parts and make the real high end Chinese scooters. One of the biggest problems with Chinese scooters continues to be the cost of labor in China. Using people is cheaper than robots, and a lot of the welding and other work that is done by robots in Japanese and European factories, is still done by hand in most of the Chinese plants. The life expectancy of the GY6 in the Chinese bikes is about 12-15k, so you've still got quite a bit of use to look forward to. If this was your only means of transportation, and you take into consideration all the miles you've driven in total since you got it, how much work do you think you would have missed?
Considering Iím two miles from work now not much, but I get your point.
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Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:10 am quote
https://youtu.be/9dNPnKrH-a4

Living with a TaoTao YouTube playlist

Scooter 911 YouTube playlist
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:12 pm quote
I subscribed to this. It will be very interesting to see how it works out with a better owner. I don't know who his customers are but no ten inch tire lasts 6,000 miles. At least not a Chinese rim protector.
Enthusiast
Piaggio BV350
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
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Location: Dahlonega, GA
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:13 am quote
LOL. I like how he says , "I have never seen a chinese scooter wear out a tire before the engine died"

Well... I happen to have one! At 1200 miles , the back tire is bald. Not only that, when I look at that tire it has no brand, no date, no top speed rating! I just replaced the tire and then... a week later.. .it has sprung an oil leak!

I don't know what that oil leak is all about yet, but I wore out the back tire before the engine cropped up with problems!

The difference in quality of scooters can only truly be appreciated after riding an extended period of time on a one scooter, and then riding an extended period of time on another. If you learn and ride a chinese scooter first, then the first higher quality scooter (for me, a Honda Reflex) will seem like , "WHOA! I had no idea that these things could be so smooth!". In reverse, riding on a high end scooter and then getting on a Chinese makes you wonder if the thing is safe!
Addicted
Joined: 21 Apr 2014
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Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:29 am quote
https://youtu.be/DEmgN9jb7JM

TaoTao Thunder 50 has slightly more stable 12" wheels . . and gas tank cap is located under the seat, which prevents rainwater from wicking around cap and contaminating gas.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11652
Location: Oregon City, OR
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:40 am quote
About 30 years back, I remember reading an article titled "When is a brand new car not worth $3995 - when its a Yugo." There are still similar situations today which make the same point.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:01 pm quote
Picking a Tao Tao as a target is pretty easy.. Tarring all Chinese scooters with the same brush is a mistake. What this long term test of a Tao Tao will reveal is that it's biggest problem are the owners. One the videos shows how a simple valve adjustment restored one to health. How many people dumped them over this? It's no secret to anyone who has kept up with Chinese scooter forums that the exhaust valve stretches. It took my CF Moto 10,000 miles to do it but it happened. A simple adjustment and it was restored to health.

Last edited by kz1000ST on Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:18 pm quote
kz1000ST wrote:
Chinese scooter [edit] biggest problem are the owners.
this. so much this. while there is a metric ass load of substandard horse shit out there, it really comes down to the owners. most are cheap asses that forgo general service or any kind of preventative maintenance, run the bikes well over service intervals, or just in flat ass disrepair, ignore the big ugly sounds and wind up just twisting the throttle more.

then, when it comes time to repair, they want to do the absolute minimum with the cheapest parts available.

wash. rinse. repeat.

-g
Addicted
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T / 2009 Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 726
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:04 am quote
Funny, I'll hit 10K miles with my ZNEN 150 this summer. It hasn't been trouble free, but it's been a great bike. Still runs great. And I've done a lot of maintenance because I like to tinker. Growing up on VWs taught me that this is an integral part of vehicle ownership. Thank you, John Muir.

Having said that, there is a different feel to my Aprilia. I call it a feeling of "well made-ness". Even though there's plastic, and I can see some cheapness in areas, the overall feeling of the bike is better quality. I still only have about 2K miles, but hope for many more.

There are varying degrees of freedom in everything, I suppose. But, there's also the economic side. Someone who spends five grand on a scoot is more likely to invest time and effort into maintaining it than someone who spends less than a grand. A used Mercedes is usually in better condition than a used Cavalier.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:12 am quote
I had to go see what a Cavalier is and ... Ouch!

I often attend Vespa rallies also because they are the only ones dedicated only to scooters in my area and therefore I often see models that are particularly difficult to maintain but still in good condition and well running, one of the rare but not too old models is the Vespa PK 125 Automatica.
Last year I saw one with 90,000 km and it looked like it was new from the factory ... This is how we started a discussion on the maintenance of difficult models, we came to the same conclusions and that is that if treated with love, unless there were no serious initial manufacturing structural problems, there could be all the conditions for a long life; there were also some Vespa GT 200s well kept in memory of the fact that survival over the years is possible. Apart from recent Kymko, at the gathering there were no scooters of other Chinese brands that we did not sell in Italy.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:47 pm quote
In case you wonder how much a China scooter is supposed to be prepped watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVbLC7aW6Uc

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:44 am quote
I am also a member of the Thailand Tricity club forum and i know how much asians take to prepare their scooters ... well, maybe the thai people are more maniacs than the chinese.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:43 am quote
What I enjoyed as him having realizations about other owners as he worked on the scooter. "They come in with the steering head loose" or "I wonder if others changed the oil as directed and instead ran shipping oil in the scooter"

His indications that he would adjust tire inflation was telling. Unlike the usual people who assemble them with pliers and a screwdriver he has his stuff together.
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black (donated)
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Location: Northern Virginia
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:09 pm quote
I'm enjoying this. We'll see how well he does, but at least the scooter will be properly serviced and maintained. I think it was telling though in the first episode he thought he would get 5000 "trouble free" miles although he said an electrical problem would appear at 3000 -- interesting use of the term trouble free. Note he also said he never saw one of these scooter have the engine outlast the original tires.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:16 pm quote
griffin1108 wrote:
I'm enjoying this. We'll see how well he does, but at least the scooter will be properly serviced and maintained. I think it was telling though in the first episode he thought he would get 5000 "trouble free" miles although he said an electrical problem would appear at 3000 -- interesting use of the term trouble free. Note he also said he never saw one of these scooter have the engine outlast the original tires.
His lack of confidence is based on what he has heard from other owners. He's expecting broken exhaust pipes, electrical problems and a 6,000 mile life span because that's what he's heard. What he's going to find is that he's not the average owner and that his knowledge will have that scooter humming for the entire time. Many 50cc GY6 engines have continued to run over 20,000 miles. His could be one if he keeps it that long.

Last edited by kz1000ST on Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
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Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:20 pm quote
The Entry-Level Porsche? A Used One
Greetings:

I've been very lucky, or perhaps patient. To me the best affordable scooter is a low-mileage used Vespa. Punkin (2010 S50) was purchased with <60 miles on it and ISO (2003 ET4) had 541. Don't get me wrong, I still love my modded 2001 Honda, but there's no comparison to the Vespa in terms of looks, quality and feel. The 2005 Reflex I owned was smooth, nice-looking but a bit of a Pig on Power-to-Weight. Vespas are way more fun to ride.

Owning Honda scooters since 2008, I picked up a few skills (and tools...) that allow me to do my own Vespa maintenance, mods and repairs when the time comes. My S50 runs almost as fast as my 150, albeit takes a lot longer to get up to that speed. Still debating the point of the Malossi 187 Kit for ISO.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:49 pm quote
Talk about fastidious. 180 miles and he's doing a deep dive into the scooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfVDz6Ba3Fg&t=0s
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:07 am quote
This just gets deeper and deeper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgI0e4YbLJQ&t=40s
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Granturismo 218
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Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:02 pm quote
kz1000ST wrote:
His lack of confidence is based on what he has heard from other owners. He's expecting broken exhaust pipes, electrical problems and a 6,000 mile life span because that's what he's heard. What he's going to find is that he's not the average owner and that his knowledge will have that scooter humming for the entire time. Many 50cc GY6 engines have continued to run over 20,000 miles. His could be one if he keeps it that long.
The amazing thing about Chinese scooters, and what is different about them compared to the first Japanese motorcycles and scooters in this country, is not that they keep finding ways to make them better, but that they are constantly figuring out new ways to make them even cheaper. This scooter will more than meet his expectations. What he's going to find out is that because he's not the average owner, he will get to experience the joy of constantly working on and rebuilding the engine, become an expert at trouble shooting shoddy electrical systems, and use hours and hours of his time and cheap low quality parts to keep it on the road long after it's safe to ride, while spending a great deal more than if he had bought a $1500 Kymco instead. That sure sounds like a lot of fun. If you buy a brand new Ruckus, Zuma, Kymco, maybe even a Fly, and do nothing more than factory recommended maintenance, the odds are that it will make it to 20K miles. Do you really believe there are Chinese 4 stroke scooters out there that will do the same? Unless you live somewhere where a guy on every street corner will fix a flat tire for a dollar, or change the belt for two, Chinese scooters are a horribly expensive undertaking.
There are a lot of cheap Chinese scooters that look like a Vespa. Znen makes a couple of them. There's your best of both worlds.
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
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Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:13 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
kz1000ST wrote:
Chinese scooter [edit] biggest problem are the owners.
this. so much this. while there is a metric ass load of substandard horse shit out there, it really comes down to the owners. most are cheap asses that forgo general service or any kind of preventative maintenance, run the bikes well over service intervals, or just in flat ass disrepair, ignore the big ugly sounds and wind up just twisting the throttle more.

then, when it comes time to repair, they want to do the absolute minimum with the cheapest parts available.

wash. rinse. repeat.

-g
Totally, fully agree.
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Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:19 pm quote
Stromrider wrote:
greasy125 wrote:
kz1000ST wrote:
Chinese scooter [edit] biggest problem are the owners.
this. so much this. while there is a metric ass load of substandard horse shit out there, it really comes down to the owners. most are cheap asses that forgo general service or any kind of preventative maintenance, run the bikes well over service intervals, or just in flat ass disrepair, ignore the big ugly sounds and wind up just twisting the throttle more.

then, when it comes time to repair, they want to do the absolute minimum with the cheapest parts available.

wash. rinse. repeat.

-g
Totally, fully agree.
But if you give the same negligent owner a Honda, Kymco, Yamaha or even a Piaggio and a Tao Tao or Boatan or Peace sport or redstreak or wildfire or ice bear or thunder chicken or znen or zongshen or geely or ..., the ownership experience won't be exactly the same. There are a lot of Chinese scooter owners who do all the maintenance and still need a new top end at 1500 miles, or ride in with the exhaust wired to the bike because the aluminum broke off the engine case where it attaches. If someone who doesn't have a lot of money and needs a scooter to get to and from work comes to you for advice, it is downright cruel to tell them that if they take care of it, a Chinese scooter will do the job.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3277
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:38 pm quote
seamus26 wrote:
Um ... again Iím just not having that experience. I really really like the ZNEN.

Iíve now owned and ridden the ZNEN, the P200E, the Genuine Buddy 170, Stella 4T and most recently an Aprilia Sportcity.

Granted, the ZNEN was ďhigh endĒ Chinese, but with 8K miles so far, it runs better than it did new. I paid around 2k brand new with a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty. I think a lot of the problems people have with them is they buy online, have them shipped to their home with some assembly required. I bought from a reputable dealer who did the PDI before I ever took the bike.

People can hate them if they want, but they are easy to work on, parts are cheap and abundant. An out of all the bikes I have ridden, the ZNEN is hands down the most comfortable and easy to ride out of the bunch.

Now, comparing it to the Aprilia I have a couple of observations. The Sportcity really feels well built. From an engineering standpoint, it appears that the designers were either drunk or the Italians still havenít forgiven us for our involvement in WWII. No offense intended. Itís really nice that the oil drain plug is right out in the open on the side of the case, but did you really have to run the exhaust right in front of it making it impossible to get a socket on it? And the rear gearoil plug. Thank you for placing it center rim. I can see the spark plug, but getting to it? Thatís another story.

Still, so far I love the bike. Itís quiet and smooth and polite. Everything the P200 wasnít.

So, for anyone reading this thread, donít be discouraged if you are considering a Chinese bike for your first ride. Wolf, Bintelli, Lance and others are making great bikes. If you arenít sure if riding is for you, I would highly recommend talking to a dealer and getting into a Chinese bike to start. If you feel the need to buy a Vespa 946 at some point, great.

Again, ride what you love, love what you ride.
Think you hit the nail on the head Seamus. Over here in the UK Chinese scooters and bikes are now very very good quality machines. We don't get the issues that some of those machines suffered 10 years ago. You can go buy almost any Chinese bike and it'll give great service. I've worked on a number of them regarding servicing, and no issues. My own nephew has a Sinnis Terrain 125 and it now has 18,500 miles on the clock in just over two years. No issues and it runs as good as any Japanese bike. In fact the engine is a Yamaha engine made under licence in China so it is no wonder it's great. No rust, no bad welds, it's got everything regarding the bikes features. Parts are easily available and cheap, yet good quality. However, it's important to say that it's built in the same factory as Yamaha, BMW and Suzuki bikes in China. And the firm that actually designed and specced them is British! But it's cheap as chips. And this is what is happening now, British engineers have been busy in China bringing the design and production processes up to date. The factory is fully automated just as any state of the art factory is these days.

The Chinese built Sinnis Terrain 125.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-JJezDyIJo

However, China does no doubt still produce some less than adequate bikes. They seem to all go to the States. So choose carefully. We don't really get that problem over here though. Move to the UK and enjoy the Chinese bikes!
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:36 am quote
And yet, according to his spreadsheet he's at 600 miles and the bike is running fine and the compression is building.

It's the owner, not the bike. Most maintenance is done while you're riding, not in the shop.

He even found that the exhaust mounts had loosened in the first 200 miles. How many people who bu these scooters would check that?

No. this will show that a well cared for China scooter will last.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:26 am quote
kz1000ST wrote:
No. this will show that a well cared for China scooter will last.
....longer than one which is not cared for. That is not the same thing as lasting as long as a better designed and better constructed scooter put together with better quality components.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:30 pm quote
Here is his service log. It makes for interesting reading.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jthNJ0TVLXvj9A_vST70fJF0aN-bwLcwtO36E_AYNII/edit#gid=177351472
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:15 pm quote
Remember that the same thing happened years ago with scooters made in Taiwan, then everything changed ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:57 pm quote
Attila wrote:
Remember that the same thing happened years ago with scooters made in Taiwan, then everything changed ...
And even earlier with Japan. It is fair to remember that many Countries which once had a poor reputation for motor vehicle construction have quite turned that opinion around through time. Today, who would speak poorly of a car from Korea, or a motorcycle from Japan, or a scooter from Taiwan. Who is to say what China or India may accomplish in the future.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
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Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:00 pm quote
Indeed Dooglas. As I mentioned earlier, you cannot buy a bad Chinese bike over here. There has been a see change in that respect. I do think that in the States there are a lot of Chinese bikes that none of us in Europe have heard of from tiny companies and sold in the States by tiny importers. It's more likely that some of those are the culprits still giving Chinese bikes a bad name. These days, in the main, emissions, homologation and build standards are higher here in Europe than in the States. Therefore you guys tend to get the stuff that no one else is able to take. There's bound to be some dodgy stuff in there from time to time and this tarnishes them all with the same brush.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:14 pm quote
Let me give you an example in Italy ... Bianchi, the famous bicycle brand, was acquired by the Swedish group Cycleurope AB some time ago and since then it has produced little in Italy and everything else outside; but the quality is excellent and the prices good, obviously you have to pay for the quality and you know that paying too little for a product is not good, you know it is of low quality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianchi_(company)
Hooked
'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam
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Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:09 am quote
these are the only companies i would buy from here in the US...

genuine
honda
yamaha
piaggio/vespa
aprilia
suzuki
sym/lance
kymco
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Posts: 11652
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Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:45 pm quote
Point37 wrote:
these are the only companies i would buy from here in the US...

genuine
honda
yamaha
piaggio/vespa
aprilia
suzuki
sym/lance
kymco
Genuine, unlike the others on your list, is an importer. Most of their scooters are built by PGO in Taiwan which has an excellent reputation. They previously sold Stellas built by LML in India (some issues there), and currently sell several models built in China from multiple manufacturers. The Royal Alloy seems to be getting a good reception. The Venture and some other 50s are built to a price. The Niu electrics are quite new. An importer's products are as good as their quality control and determination to maintain good standards.
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Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:17 pm quote
kz1000ST wrote:
And yet, according to his spreadsheet he's at 600 miles and the bike is running fine and the compression is building.
600 miles, and it still runs? Time to call Guinness. That's a milestone few scooters ever achieve. To put it in terms of human achievement, that ranks right up there with, "I skipped breakfast AND lunch and didn't die of starvation."
You ever wonder how much higher the compression would be if he used Amsoil.

And BTW, whatever happened to the cult of Amsoil? They seem to have packed the tent in the wagon and gone on to the next town.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:26 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
kz1000ST wrote:
And yet, according to his spreadsheet he's at 600 miles and the bike is running fine and the compression is building.
600 miles, and it still runs? Time to call Guinness. That's a milestone few scooters ever achieve. To put it in terms of human achievement, that ranks right up there with, "I skipped breakfast AND lunch and didn't die of starvation."
You ever wonder how much higher the compression would be if he used Amsoil.

And BTW, whatever happened to the cult of Amsoil? They seem to have packed the tent in the wagon and gone on to the next town.
...digs digs, behind every technical progress there is someone with italian ancestors ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8718
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:47 am quote
Motovista wrote:
And BTW, whatever happened to the cult of Amsoil? They seem to have packed the tent in the wagon and gone on to the next town.
Hang out on a diesel engine forum, they are there.
Lurker
GTS300SS, PX150.
Joined: 17 Jul 2020
Posts: 2

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:20 pm quote
If you have to ask you definitely donít get it. One word. Brand.
Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1096
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:18 am quote
The Tao Tao pilot noted on Twitter this morning that it blew a front brake hose. He's waiting for parts. I advised him on a reputable parts source although I don't know if he's going to take it.
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