Am i Crazy?
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Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:31 pm quote
Found a cheap Vespa VBB, seems to be rust free with a few dinks here or there but that side of things I'm comfortable with.

The other side is that the engine is completely apart and in boxes.

The seller is advertising it as
"THE ENGINE HAS BEEN SPLIT, CLEANED & SOME NEW SEALS & BEARINGS HAVE BEEN REPLACED.
I HAVE ALSO BOUGHT A NEW CLUTCH & CRANKSHAFT, BUT NOT YET FITTED.
SINCE LOSING MY GARAGE I HAVENT BEEN ABLE TO CARRY ON."

Now I'm no mechanic and this is my first project.

Am i crazy to be taking this on and assembling the engine myself?

What sort of cost would it be to get someone to put it together?

Any advice greatly appreciated
Banned
62vnb , 71 sprint ,1974 vespa90
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 650
Location: Idaho falls
Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:47 pm quote
A vbb is one of , if not the most simple of Vespa motors . Parts are easy to find and are inexpensive . On the other hand vbb is the most common bodge ( poorly built aftermarket crap ) , a picture would help a lot , to have a true opinion .
Ossessionato
PX200, Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Classic
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Posts: 2112
Location: Sydney, Australia
Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:54 pm quote
I'm contemplating the same with a PX. Not overly mechanical either. Got Scooter Techniques DVD, Haynes manual and found lots of info online and can ask here when I get stuck. As the saying goes, "Bite off more than you can chew and chew like buggery". As far as cost goes, I don't know but surely more than you think.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7054
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:00 pm quote
I'd ask the seller first if it was original when he started taking it apart and also if it's essentially all there. Good answers would keep me going, but without experience, putting it back together if you didn't take it apart would be challenging. But not crazy.

A pic of the body and the price he's asking will likely get you some further opinions.

Last edited by V oodoo on Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 3903
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:00 pm quote
If you have the patience, tools, money, space to work (hopefully heated) and the desire to see it through, then yes, you could do it.
Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Love-Hate Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1810

Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:10 pm quote
Quote:
If you have the patience, tools, money, space to work (hopefully heated) and the desire to see it through, then yes, you could do it.
Unless the frame is already a bodge, in which case it's probably not worth the trouble.
Hooked
86' Vespa PX 200, 59' Lambretta LD 150
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 108
Location: Brazil
Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:53 pm quote
It's simple but the parts are turning hard to find like brand new...
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7054
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:17 am quote
Quote:
...
IMPORTED FROM PAKISTAN.
...
It's like Russian roulette, but with only one chamber empty. Are you feeling lucky?
Molto Verboso
1966 Bluebadge, 1974 Super 150
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 1117
Location: New York City
Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:33 am quote
Looks like a Super? VBC, not VBB.
Hooked
86' Vespa PX 200, 59' Lambretta LD 150
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 108
Location: Brazil
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:07 am quote
The front mudguard look strange for me.
Hooked
'80 Bajaj chetak, '05 LML
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Sydney
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:20 am quote
Not a good idea.

Wait for something better to come along.
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:24 am quote
id say give this one a miss, theres a lot of work involved and money to be thrown at that. In its current state its just not a great project to start off with.
Personally for me its not even borderline. it would be a no.

its not a vbb, i also think its a vbc
Hooked
'80 Bajaj chetak, '05 LML
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Sydney
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:30 am quote
Can't see how folks think it's a vbc. Looks like a vbb to me. (Or maybe a bajaj equivalent).
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:39 am quote
yeah could be bajaj, the reason i dont think its a vbb is because it hasnt get the round tail but rather the flat area where the number plate sits. but im not an expert, although i have owned 1 vbb

*EDIT* doh, no i owned a vba not vbb the vba had the round tail (been a few years)

The vbb does have the flat piece like that, im mistaken. pardon.

Still wouldnt get it though
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:58 am quote
Forget it. I think he has been done and is wanting to stitch someone else up. Its not exactly a desirable scooter either. I could be wrong but I do not think VBB were every in Europe, I think they were only exported to Asia. Someone will hopefully clarify this, but its only recently they have been seen and used over here, UK that is.
Im not saying they are all bad, as I have seen some beautifully done VBB with very expensive paint jobs. Its just now they are coming from every where and anywhere. If it was my first project I would get one with a British registration number.
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:57 am quote
Ok well that's confirmed it! Thanks guys!!
Molto Verboso
many
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 1042
Location: NY
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:40 am quote
I love my 1963 VBB, in fact I think it's one of the best looking
Vespas(even with 8 inch wheels).

It is true the the most BODGES ive seen are
VBB, Super, and Sprints.






Rob
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2147
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:56 am quote
I wouldn't touch that VBB you posted, but I also wouldn't be scared off of a VBB in general.

Still, but I found rebuilding my LML (PX) motor to be MUCH easier than rebuilding the VBB motor.

They're not that different mechanically, but I found LML motor to be MUCH easier to rebuild. That may be because the VBB was my first full rebuild, but so many aspects of it are just a plain pain in the ass (e.g. the crank bearings).

The VBB motor was clearly designed around ease of machining & manufacturing its parts. By the time the P series rolled around, though, considerations about what made sense for maintainability were clearly playing a much larger role in design decisions.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:05 am quote
Yes, "desirable" probably was not the best word to use. I was referring to the fact that everyone has reservations when one of these comes up for sale, due to the amount that are being imported from Asia.

Would also agree, building a PX engine or LML engine first would be a better start for a first time project.
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:03 pm quote
yes do keep looking for a vba/vbb or whatever your into, its just a numbers game really. one will pop up one day for you.

definitely dont get put off looking around for one and good on you for asking before you excitedly bought.

Ive said it before and some have agreed and others dont, but the more money you have to spend on outlay, the greater the pool of scooters to choose from. The benefit of getting an unmolested scooter project is you start with a known good frame, even though the money you may end up spending on the engine will be about the same as you might for that pile up there. In saying that there are still bargains to be had and barn finds to be uncovered, it just takes effort further than ebay towards looking.

best of luck and keep us posted with your searching
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:10 pm quote
Another one for you Guys.

Seems in a lot better shape (actually like the paint job and body to have some original patina) with just some engine issues which i know could be a number of things.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vespa-vbb-1965-/111611147077?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

One thing though it does seem to clean....Asian rep? I've asked so we shall see.
Molto Verboso
No moar Vespas...sold them all
Joined: 09 May 2012
Posts: 1087
Location: Denver City Denver
Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:17 pm quote
I'd avoid this one too....looking bodgy again. That P(X) floormat is a dead giveaway for an asian import usually. A VBB never would have come like that.
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 559
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:26 pm quote
Hmmmm? My two cents
FYI
that first e bay pic shows a VBC front guard cos I can see the split in it..VBB have a one piece
Def VBC hubs also....and they wont fit on a VBB

she smacks of a bogerigar.
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2147
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:27 pm quote
Walk away. 10" wheels on a vbb means much mechanical hackery.

Definitely not what you want. The 8" wheels are half the fun of a vbb.
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:28 pm quote
just avoid all vbbs with px floor runners and you should be sweet.

You could try asking around a local scooter club. You really want a bike with a bit of known history. Otherwise you could take someone with you that knows the pitfalls to view it. Again though, its a "dont get that one"
Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Love-Hate Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1810

Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:22 pm quote
I know a trustworthy person selling her silver 80 P200. Something went wrong several years ago and it holed the piston so it's not currently running. It's been sitting in her garage ever since and she's made a decision. (This bike did the Canonball a few years before). Price is good and I'd snap it up if I had the space and time.
Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:37 pm quote
i see in your sig youve already got a VBB, so why might you want another?

i like my scoots because i have got all the whitworth or px tools and when i got them they were cheap, also i dreamt of all my mates and i going for a ride on the fastest old school scoots you could find. It kinda worked
My favourite scooter is still my first 175 tigress 2T. Ive looked and ive only found about 5 advertised in the last 18 years. Thank god no one bothered to bodge them up or idve been in a world of shit. Where im getting at is... diversify your results while still keeping check of your dreams. if your dream is to have your girlie or mates ride with you, either buy one ready or compromise. Similarly for another personal project, no point fishing through ebay looking for the needle, while all the hipsters are paying a top dollar to snap the labels up. Youve got yours so what gives? Even i know you cant ride 2

... just having a few rum and coke and sayin
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:37 am quote
I don't currently own a VBB or any Vespa but the dream is to have one for a while and to keep for as long as I'am Alive.

Regarding the centre rubber mat, I have even seen a Douglas lately for sale that has this.
Is it really a tell tale sign of an asian import?
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:47 am quote
Its the DVLA that register most Vespas in the UK as Douglas and so when this is on the V5, the owners always refer them or call them Douglas Vespa. They think that it gives them that little more authenticity. Unless of course it is a genuine Vespa Douglas straight from Bristol, but you would be able to tell that from the registration number. Pictures are always a great help.

Why don't you try popping round to Retrospective, yes there finished scooters are well over priced but he sometimes has original untouched scooters for sale. It will also give you an idea what you are getting for your money. Remember he is a retail shop so 20% + London fees apply.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:28 pm quote
Those look beautiful but I'd imagine very far out of my budget!
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:17 am quote
Wow what a day so after chatting to the guy about these ones

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VESPA-1959-ITALIAN-CLASSIC-project-/121587155568?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item1c4f28c270

Me and my friend have placed a deposit down! Him on the White VBA and myself got the blue 1965 VBB.

So we pick them up in the coming weeks and will no doubt be on here asking lots of questions!
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:38 am quote
Excellent.

Are the two scooters running?
Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:00 am quote
Blue one starts up on the first kick and sounds great just needs the new loom wired in for the lights, horn etc.

White one came with 2 engines, one on it kicks over but hasn't started in a year then it came with another VBA engine that's all ready to rock and roll! Just needs the engine cowl painted and the trim back on

image.jpg

Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:01 am quote
White one

image.jpg

Hooked
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 128
Location: London
Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:50 pm quote
Regarding the blue one - the owner (italian) assures me that it came from Italy has a Nova certificate etc but the chrome trim is concerning me that it is an asian/india import.

What do people think? Have left only a very small deposit so don't want to go and pay the rest if people think i'am being lied too.

The white one also came with the same chrome side trim on the legshields and fender but are currently diss-assembled off the bike.
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Posts: 17
Location: United Kingdom
Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:27 am quote
To the top
I'm the other guy involved in these bikes so would appreciate your feedback on them.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GS150, Messerschmitt GS150
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1060
Location: Glasgow
Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:53 am quote
The colours look ok, yes the blue one has been repainted, looking at the white one along the edge of the floor where the runner is missing looks to be fine, if there was any welding it would show up around there, but its very difficult to be 100% sure from pictures. I would go and see them and take a few magnets and run the magnets all over the body work, this will give you an idea of large pockets of filler on the frame, check underneath the floor, take the panels off, especially the battery side, look for the chassis number, if it is perfect and very easy to read I would be asking questions. Check under the rear wheel arch, feel for the shock mount on the frame, be positive and dare I say it aggressive in the inspection, do not let them do it. Let the scooter run for as long as you can, checking for any oil leaks. There seems to be a bracket on the white one, that shouldn't be there on the stand bolts, I would be asking to take that off, its from a pair of panel crashbars. The leg shield & mudguard bars are not original. If possible ask to remove the speedometer and check the forks.
Everything is repairable, its the chassis and the chassis number that definitely have to be given a proper inspection.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:04 am quote
not for me unless really cheap
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