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@bennythedroid avatar
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LX150
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Location: Tacoma, WA
 
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@bennythedroid avatar
LX150
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Hello All,

It's been at least three years since the brake fluid was changed in my 150 and I've never done it myself, so I was unpleasantly surprised when a seemingly simple task took a turn for the worse.

I sucked out the old fluid from the reservoir and put in the new, and had my one way valve tube stuck on the brake valve thingy (I suck with mechanic terminology) with the 10mm wrench ready to turn the valve and start the bleeding process. I thought I made the quarter turn ok to open it up, but I didn't see any fluid going into the tube when I started applying pressure to the brake lever. Turns out it didn't open at all. With just one turn attempt the nut on the valve was basically just deteriorating under the pressure of the wrench. I don't know if the previous mechanic wrenched it down ungodly tight, if the thing is just corroded beyond help, or a combination of both.

Really hard to get pics since I don't have any fancy macro-capable cameras but here's a couple with as little blur as I could manage:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

With one turn attempt the wrench just bit into the threading and started wearing off the nut corners like it was nothing. I didn't take it from a bad angle or with excessive pressure. It just kind of gave way with the one turn attempt. The nut is such now that the wrench doesn't feel snug enough to turn without just wearing it away even more. Is the part still usable? Should I get some lockable pliers and just force that thing open? Should I try WD-40 or some other solvent first to help get it open or could that do bad things to the brake components?

Thanks so much in advance
@fledermaus avatar
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@fledermaus avatar
2007 LX150 2015 GTS (on the bench) 2017 BV 350
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Not sure my opinion is worth much, but first, even though WD-40 may or may not do much, I doubt it can hurt.

Though the best thing is to get a new piece, I think the locking pliers route would be worth a try...it's gotta come loose one way or another. My best guess is you could make it work until next time, which would give you plenty of time to locate a new part. Don't know why it would be unusable...if you can torque it enough to loosen it, should be able to get it tight the same way....likely less than it is now.

I bow to anyone else's superior knowledge an experience.
@nightwing avatar
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2007 LX 150 (memories)
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What style wrench were you using? Adjustable (bad), open end, 12 point box, 6 point box (best)?
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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If I understand you the brakes are still working, they just need to be flushed. If it were mine I would first obtain a new bleed screw and a 6 point socket. It will probably need to be a deep socket. Have locking pliers handy. You will probably need to tap the socket onto the partly rounded screw. Make sure the socket is straight as you turn it. If it rounds off completely then have a go with the pliers. Plan C would be a screw extractor but those can be tricky. You do not want to damage the bleeder seat. If still no luck I would probably just forget about it until you need break pads. Then it might come down to replacing the caliper.
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Hooked
piaggio hexagon
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Try penetrating oil rather than WD40, let it soak in overnight, then use (preferably) a six point ring spanner gently putting pressure on in an alternating loosening and then "tightening" action. It is difficult to try to explain how much force to use in a situation like this, but remember, gently does it. Fit a new bleedscrew with a smear of coppergrease on the threads.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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I've had several bleed valves that were stuck. One just sheared, the other two wouldn't come loose even with 'extreme heat' etc being applied. The lesson learned was to turn them every few months to ensure they stayed free. It saves having to buy a new caliper.

As above - always use a six-point socket to initially open them. This actually applies to most nuts and bolts to keep them pristine. My old 12-pointers are very rarely used these days.
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scooterless
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scooterless
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6-point socket x3.

At this point will have to tap it on to get past the damage, but will get you out of this jam.
@pigletpilot avatar
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Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Mia, 2017 Vespa Primavera 70th Anniversary 150ie, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
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@pigletpilot avatar
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Make that 6 point socket x 4. Have found over many years the more you spend on a socket the less it costs you in damage.
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@bennythedroid avatar
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LX150
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bluecloud wrote:
6-point socket x3.

At this point will have to tap it on to get past the damage, but will get you out of this jam.
Sad thing is I have plenty of sockets, for the life of me I don't know why I thought to just go straight at it with a spanner, but I did. Scratch that, I guess the reason I started with the spanner was to keep the bleeder tube on so I wouldn't leak fluid. I ended up leaking a bunch anyway, so the moral of the story is to always start with the 6 pointer, always always.

I ended up having to gently and gradually tap a socket down over the bolt, it went over smoothly enough. As soft as the nut seems to be, as easy as it was to strip it, it was just about as easy molding it back. The nut is still scuffed of course but it's still functional. Got everything put back together and back on the road.
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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Thanks for the followup. Glad it worked out. You may still want to order a new bleed screw the next time you are getting parts. Put a little anti-sieze on the threads but be careful not to get it on the tapered end. You do not want it to contaminate the fluid.
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bennythedroid wrote:
Sad thing is I have plenty of sockets, for the life of me I don't know why I thought to just go straight at it with a spanner, but I did.
We've all been there, you only do it once.
@brian_m avatar
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where to get a replacement bleed screw
I'm running into the same problem and am reluctant to go much further without a replacement screw at hand. Is it a common size that I could get at an auto parts store? I don't see the screw offered separately at Scooter West. Any info appreciated, thanks!

-brian
@madison_sully avatar
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@madison_sully avatar
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UTC quote
bluecloud wrote:
bennythedroid wrote:
Sad thing is I have plenty of sockets, for the life of me I don't know why I thought to just go straight at it with a spanner, but I did.
We've all been there, you only do it once.
Only once. Riiigghhtt...
Been there, done that. Did it again. And....


Still cheaper to DIY!
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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Re: where to get a replacement bleed screw
brian_m wrote:
I'm running into the same problem and am reluctant to go much further without a replacement screw at hand. Is it a common size that I could get at an auto parts store? I don't see the screw offered separately at Scooter West. Any info appreciated, thanks!

-brian
I've got a spare caliper with a bleed screw. PM me your address and I'll mail it to you. You can mail it back if you don't need it.
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scooterless
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brian_m wrote:
Is it a common size that I could get at an auto parts store? I don't see the screw offered separately at Scooter West.
Yeah, no separate part number from Vespa.

Should be able to source one at autoparts but will need to take it in for matching, not gonna have a Vespa listing. Another option is a used caliper from ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/08-Piaggio-Vespa-LX-150-Front-Left-Brake-Caliper-TESTED-SEE-VIDEO-/301323051651?hash=item462840e283&vxp=mtr
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The bleeder screw is probably made of brass. Why? Because most of them are made of brass as it is a relatively soft metal which is good for sealing and slow to corrode. Of course, this makes it very easy to strip. The six point socket is a good idea, and will work, but the proper tool to use is a line wrench. Most people are not going to buy such a tool for infrequent use, so the socket will serve you in a pinch. Good for you.
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I don't know the size of the screw, but it should be an everyday metric bleed screw available at any auto parts store.
@great_lake_roller avatar
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2011 GTV 300 ie 2007 LX 150 2002 Suzuki Volusa
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@great_lake_roller avatar
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Also if space and safety permit you can give the screw a shot of heat from a torch, this helps a lot too.
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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@vintage_red_matthew avatar
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Location: Sedgwick, Kansas
UTC quote
great lake roller wrote:
Also if space and safety permit you can give the screw a shot of heat from a torch, this helps a lot too.
I don't think I would do that. Yes, a quick shot from a propane torch would probably be OK and maybe helpful but I would be afraid of melting the seals. As far as I can tell they are not replaceable and a new caliper is not cheap.
@brian_m avatar
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2008 Vespa GTS 250
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UTC quote
Re: where to get a replacement bleed screw
Quote:
I've got a spare caliper with a bleed screw. PM me your address and I'll mail it to you. You can mail it back if you don't need it.
Matthew, thank you for the kind offer. I tapped a 10mm socket onto it last night and was able to crack it open and bleed the brake. Haven't ridden it yet, but the lever still seemed a bit soft. More investigation is needed. I used the Mity-vac pump, really makes things easy but you can quickly drain the reservoir if you're not paying attention...

If I end up needing to mess with it much more, I'll just take the screw off and try sourcing it at an auto parts store. Since they're not listed separately it would probably be best for you to keep it with the caliper for future use.

Thanks again for the offer!

-brian
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