What's new in scooters and retro motorcycles?
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eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:10 am quote
Been to Alabama. Does that count ?

Bill x
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:43 am quote
Re: Smash
Bill Dog wrote:
but it's only going to appeal to people who want to remain stationary or go backwards.
Basically anybody reading threads titled "What's new in scooters and retro motorcycles?"
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:45 am quote
Shine
I like irony, don't you ?

Bill x
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:16 am quote
I do think design team has worked miracles though. You rarely saw Enfield Bullets on the road before because they were unreliable, slow, and looked like something only your grandfather would want to own. Great for that trip across India but not for a daily commute. I certainly wouldn't of looked twice at one but when I saw the Classic I just thought wow! It's still slow but it's reliable enough to commute on. It's always an attention grabber, I've had everyone from other bikers, busses, trucks, pedestrians and even the local druggies shout out and say what a great bike it is. The look and feel of the bike is brilliant (as long as you're happy with slow) and I think the original Design team are responsible for that.
tdrake wrote:
I'd love to read something about the RE design team -- imho they really just nail the aesthetic vibe of everything they put out
The new R&D team are based in the UK in Leicester. Here's a small article on them.
Ossessionato
2006 GT200
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Location: Moscow, Idaho
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:29 am quote
Re: List
Bill Dog wrote:
Been to Alabama. Does that count ?

Bill x
Indeed it does. Double, possibly.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:39 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Often the term Retro is associated with Royal Enfield but I think it's a misnoma as it suggests that we're going back in time but Royal Enfield has never really ( until very recently ) moved on.
I'm with Bill on this. The reason that Enfields look retro is because they have never looked like anything else. What has brought them into the 21st Century is not new styles, but complete mechanical redesigns. The Indian-built Enfield no longer leaves you at the side of the road, as it used to with astonishing regularity.

Now, I'm not knocking this new design exercise. It will be interesting to see if it ever makes it to production.
Ossessionato
2006 GT200
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:46 am quote
robinm wrote:
I do think design team has worked miracles though. You rarely saw Enfield Bullets on the road before because they were unreliable, slow, and looked like something only your grandfather would want to own. Great for that trip across India but not for a daily commute. I certainly wouldn't of looked twice at one but when I saw the Classic I just thought wow! It's still slow but it's reliable enough to commute on. It's always an attention grabber, I've had everyone from other bikers, busses, trucks, pedestrians and even the local druggies shout out and say what a great bike it is. The look and feel of the bike is brilliant (as long as you're happy with slow) and I think the original Design team are responsible for that.
tdrake wrote:
I'd love to read something about the RE design team -- imho they really just nail the aesthetic vibe of everything they put out
The new R&D team are based in the UK in Leicester. Here's a small article on them.
Ok, that's the missing link - the Leicester facility. I know Bill's right, that they're basically just cranking out old stuff, design-wise, but that's what I like, and somehow they're just utterly nailing it, for me, and maybe it's simply the willingness to tilt toward the old instead of "new retro" or some such hybrid.

Everyone else is cranking out second generation Camaros and Mustangs, which utterly leave me cold.

With my obsession with taking pics, if I were gonna buy a new bike right now simply on the basis of looks, it'd be their Interceptor 650.

Which, unfortunately, is about as well adapted to Idaho riding conditions as another Vespa.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:05 pm quote
Twin
Please don't misunderstand me, I like the Royal Enfield product because it's never been about power, performance and cutting edge tech and I like that.

Until recently they've never moved on because they've never had to.

It's about a simple, reliable thumper that's going to keep going in a tough environment where high numbers and performance aren't a requirement.

Without the need to evolve it's development has come at a glacial pace and I'll bet if there wasn't a Euro 4 Standard they wouldn't have bothered with EFI and ABS.

It's a product that can't consciously hark back to an era because it didn't progress enough to go backward. It just stayed where it was cranking out the same old bike because many people wanted that, especially the Indians.

My complaint is to keep selling units they have chosen the cheapest tactic which is to just simply paint it in a new range of new and exciting colours.
Once again I'm being ironic.

New suspension, clocks or lights ? Na.....

It reminds me of a car manufacturer finishing off a the run of a model by filling the final models full of cheap accessories and calling it a special edition to clear the factory.

I can't knock it because it seems to be working.

Bill x
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:09 pm quote
robinm wrote:
I do think design team has worked miracles though. You rarely saw Enfield Bullets on the road before because they were unreliable, slow, and looked like something only your grandfather would want to own. Great for that trip across India but not for a daily commute. I certainly wouldn't of looked twice at one but when I saw the Classic I just thought wow! It's still slow but it's reliable enough to commute on. It's always an attention grabber, I've had everyone from other bikers, busses, trucks, pedestrians and even the local druggies shout out and say what a great bike it is. The look and feel of the bike is brilliant (as long as you're happy with slow) and I think the original Design team are responsible for that.
tdrake wrote:
I'd love to read something about the RE design team -- imho they really just nail the aesthetic vibe of everything they put out
The new R&D team are based in the UK in Leicester. Here's a small article on them.
What I've also gathered is that the singles, including the continental GT are by the "old" team + partners like Xenophya in the UK (for the design)....and now the new gen should be boosted by the Leicester team - to me it's unclear what has been the new UK team's role with the new twins, their work or not yet?
Ossessionato
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Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:14 am quote
Re: Twin
Bill Dog wrote:
It's a product that can't consciously hark back to an era because it didn't progress enough to go backward. It just stayed where it was cranking out the same old bike because many people wanted that, especially the Indians.

Bill x
I was thinking of the new 650 models and Himalayan, not the older models.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:16 am quote
List
When they bring out a 650 version of the Himalayan I think I'll go looking for one.

The 410 is too slow on the highway for me to be practical.

Bill x
Ossessionato
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Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:50 pm quote
Re: List
Bill Dog wrote:
When they bring out a 650 version of the Himalayan I think I'll go looking for one.

The 410 is too slow on the highway for me to be practical.

Bill x
Yep, ditto. The 410 is allllmost just right for me, but not quite.

Pretty settled on a used DR650 for this coming spring so I can get out on the gravel a bit more, and then I'll wait a few years to see what else is coming down the pike because it seems like we're about to see an explosion in small bike options.
Molto Verboso
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Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:02 pm quote
Re: Twin
Bill Dog wrote:
My complaint is to keep selling units they have chosen the cheapest tactic which is to just simply paint it in a new range of new and exciting colours.
Bill, they've done quite a bit of development. In the last ten years they've produced:
    * The UCE engine which is a massive improvement in reliability over the older design of engine which separated engine, gearbox and clutch. Much improved oil flow, bearings, aluminum head, EFI etc. Much better reliability, ease of maintenance etc.
    * The Himalayan is a completely new design for Enfield and fills a need for those wanting to travel/tour off the road as well as on. It's not fast on motorways but it's not meant to be. It has a huge range. It's simple with very little to go wrong, it's good for luggage and, best of all, it's cheap.
    * The engine in the Himalayan is a completely new LS410 engine designed in house with long stroke piston, SOHC, oil coolers etc.
    * The Interceptor is a new bike wrapped around a completely new Engine.
    * The KX-Concept (if they make it) is all new again.
Considering this is from a Company that hadn't changed anything for 60 years, I think that's quite impressive. Now they're selling more motorcycles than anyone else world wide. What more do they have to do to get Bill's seal of approval?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:13 am quote
What was the question?
Jawa 42
https://www.jawamotorcycles.com

gallery-j42-1.jpg

Hooked
GTS 300ie Touring
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:49 am quote
A beautiful classic looking motorcycle
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:29 am quote
znomit wrote:
Jawa 42
Yummy!
Ossessionato
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:36 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
znomit wrote:
Jawa 42
Yummy!
Yup, nice looking bike. I have to say I like the looks way more than the recent offering by Genuine Scooters (motorcycle).
Molto Verboso
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:22 pm quote
That is a lovely looking bike! It took me ages to find out the basic details though - it's just under 300cc, 27Hp and 26Nm torque so it's unlikely to appeal to many folk over here and in the states. Personally I'd prefer a larger engine and shaft drive like they had on the older Jawas. I'd also prefer to see that speedo as part of the headlamp - one of their models has it and it looked great.
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm quote
robinm wrote:
Personally I'd prefer a larger engine and shaft drive like they had on the older Jawas.
Sounds like you need a Moto Guzzi my friend.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:53 pm quote
I've had quite a few of those (2 Cali's, a quota and a Le Mons) and loved them all. I live the design of the Jawa and I can see how it would appeal to those in India but for those of us with a scoot already it doesn't make much sense as 300cc doesn't do anything their scooter can.
Hooked
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:01 am quote
robinm wrote:
I've had quite a few of those (2 Cali's, a quota and a Le Mons) and loved them all. I live the design of the Jawa and I can see how it would appeal to those in India but for those of us with a scoot already it doesn't make much sense as 300cc doesn't do anything their scooter can.
It would be interesting to see which would be fastest in a 0-60 drag race
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:08 am quote
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Hooked
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:24 am quote
znomit wrote:
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Ossessionato
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:47 am quote
znomit wrote:
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Think Apache and not Hindu. Don't think native Americans are known for their fine take away cuisine.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:01 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
znomit wrote:
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Think Apache and not Hindu. Don't think native Americans are known for their fine take away cuisine.
A motorcycle from India.

Heck, I only just discovered Jawa was Czechoslovakian. Whats the takeaway of choice there?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:19 am quote
And now for the bad news

In October 2016,Mahindra and Mahindra (M&M), through its subsidiary Classic Legends Private Limited (CLPL), signed a licensing deal to launch motorbikes under the JAWA brand name in India and other East Asian countries.

Jawa-Motorcycles-15.jpeg

Ossessionato
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:07 am quote
znomit wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
znomit wrote:
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Think Apache and not Hindu. Don't think native Americans are known for their fine take away cuisine.
A motorcycle from India.

Heck, I only just discovered Jawa was Czechoslovakian. Whats the takeaway of choice there?
KFC, Burger King and McDonald's . I know shocking, eh?
Molto Verboso
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:46 am quote
znomit wrote:
And now for the bad news

In October 2016,Mahindra and Mahindra (M&M), through its subsidiary Classic Legends Private Limited (CLPL), signed a licensing deal to launch motorbikes under the JAWA brand name in India and other East Asian countries.
Uggh...I do like bobbers, kind of nicer way to be un-practical than say, cafe racer....for an older geezer at least....but this thing is just horrible
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:05 pm quote
RRider wrote:
robinm wrote:
I do think design team has worked miracles though. You rarely saw Enfield Bullets on the road before because they were unreliable, slow, and looked like something only your grandfather would want to own. Great for that trip across India but not for a daily commute. I certainly wouldn't of looked twice at one but when I saw the Classic I just thought wow! It's still slow but it's reliable enough to commute on. It's always an attention grabber, I've had everyone from other bikers, busses, trucks, pedestrians and even the local druggies shout out and say what a great bike it is. The look and feel of the bike is brilliant (as long as you're happy with slow) and I think the original Design team are responsible for that.
tdrake wrote:
I'd love to read something about the RE design team -- imho they really just nail the aesthetic vibe of everything they put out
The new R&D team are based in the UK in Leicester. Here's a small article on them.
What I've also gathered is that the singles, including the continental GT are by the "old" team + partners like Xenophya in the UK (for the design)....and now the new gen should be boosted by the Leicester team - to me it's unclear what has been the new UK team's role with the new twins, their work or not yet?
I'll answer to my own question as the answer was given in the latest Bike (UK) magazine: the Himalayan can be credited mainly to the Indian side of affairs, whereas the new 650 twin mainly by the UK side.

Bike magazine test rode the new twin and quite liked it...I'd not say they are always the most objective bunch of motoring journalists, but an interesting review altogether.
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:34 pm quote
Another one to consider. Norton Atlas Nomad 650. UK price 9995 pounds. 84 bhp (62kW). Dry weight 178 kgs. 18 inch front/17 inch rear wheels.

norton-atlas-650.jpg



Last edited by Sledge on Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:52 pm quote
Harbinger wrote:
znomit wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
znomit wrote:
How come there's no curry hook on an Indian Motorcycle?
Think Apache and not Hindu. Don't think native Americans are known for their fine take away cuisine.
A motorcycle from India.

Heck, I only just discovered Jawa was Czechoslovakian. Whats the takeaway of choice there?
KFC, Burger King and McDonald's . I know shocking, eh?
As long as they all serve Pilsner Urquell I'm ok with that.

Norton is hot too.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:46 am quote
Sledge wrote:
Another one to consider. Norton Atlas Nomad 650. UK price 9995 pounds. 84 bhp (62kW). Dry weight 178 kgs. 18 inch front/17 inch rear wheels.
I like the looks AND the specs! But...can't see myself really riding that, for the same reason cafe racers or out from my selection - my arms/wrists and back are not good for these bikes anymore....on that note, there's quite a bit of the new Husqvarna in the design, this is just a tad more traditional.k
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Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:25 am quote
This is just a concept, but no reason why it should not be easy to make into production too:

Mahindra promotes this under Peugeot brand (Peugeot Motorcycles being now fully owned by Mahindra)....one more of these "neo retros", whatever that means. Looks cool, if somewhat identical with all the others in this league....and there's a cafe racer version too, as it seems to be mandatory these days

Actually, I should not be joking about cafe racers - I just read about a recent study, where most of the young(ish) people placed design/cool appearance of a car as the primary purchasing criteria. Practical things came after that, including environmental facts (which was quite important too). So, perhaps a way to lure youngsters to bikes is to focus on coolness-factor and leave the practical GSs of the world for their grandparents....

image.jpeg

Molto Verboso
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Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:28 am quote
RRider wrote:
This is just a concept, but no reason why it should not be easy to make into production too:

Mahindra promotes this under Peugeot brand (Peugeot Motorcycles being now fully owned by Mahindra)....one more of these "neo retros", whatever that means. Looks cool, if somewhat identical with all the others in this league....and there's a cafe racer version too, as it seems to be mandatory these days

Actually, I should not be joking about cafe racers - I just read about a recent study, where most of the young(ish) people placed design/cool appearance of a car as the primary purchasing criteria. Practical things came after that, including environmental facts (which was quite important too). So, perhaps a way to lure youngsters to bikes is to focus on coolness-factor and leave the practical GSs of the world for their grandparents....
BTW - what's with the golden forks nowadays....
Addicted
Steeellaaa!!
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Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:17 pm quote
Another variation of the Shineray xy400, the Bristol. Bristol is based in the Philippines.

https://www.motopinas.com/motorcycle-news/bristol-motorcycles-debut-in-the-philippines.html

post11197_5.jpg

eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:29 am quote
Clang
I think that my issue with Cafe Racers and Bobbers is that it's a bike that you make and modify yourself not buy off the shelf.

Lets face it it gives the designers a day off doesn't it ?

Bobber style you say ? coming right up !

Bill x
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Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:30 am quote
Re: Clang
Bill Dog wrote:
I think that my issue with Cafe Racers and Bobbers is that it's a bike that you make and modify yourself not buy off the shelf.

Lets face it it gives the designers a day off doesn't it ?

Bobber style you say ? coming right up !

Bill x
As opposed to sport-bikes or the Harley Davidson clones that are so abundant? Trends come and go. The Manufacturer's follow the tends that buyer's want. It's pretty obvious the street fighter and transformer style bikes are loosing popularity and the designers are moving to a late 80's early 90's style inspired by resto-mods for some models. Even the cafe racer thing is slowing down. There's just so many on craigslist these days and the asking price's are less than what they were 5 years ago. The new Suzuki Katana is one of the first late 80's style bike to come out but not the last. I'm cool with that. Those bikes looked good to me.
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125 "Bean Alley" Kymco AK550 The War to end all Wars
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Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:37 am quote
List
Of course trends come and go, that's why they are called trends.

I'm saying that it's a cop out to copy a style born from customising then mass produce your own.

It's lazy.

Bill x
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Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:00 pm quote
Re: Kawi is back in business
RRider wrote:
And if they'll have a cafe' , it shouldn't take much to un-cafe it and have a w800 proper available again?

https://m.kawasaki.com/product/details/2019-W800-Cafe?cm_re=VEHICLEDETAILS-_-NFV-_-2019-W800-Cafe
...and as could be guessed, there's also a decaf version called Street.

image.jpeg

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Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:08 pm quote
On the Peugeot bikes. Stay away.
The Django is sold here and it's horrifically bad. By all reports they are breaking down and having all sorts of issues with the electrics.
Stay away from Peugeot/Mahindra.
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