What's new in scooters and retro motorcycles?
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Addicted
LXS 150
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 981
Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:19 am quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Have you ridden a flat twin ?

Bill x
'81 R100RS with a dual-plug conversion and oversized Mikuni slide carbs, bought in '05 and ridden for a few years and about 16,000 miles. Great bike for its time and still a hoot even a quarter-century later, but not designed for the vertically-challenged such as myself. The carb conversion made it a bit cold-blooded and fussy to start. It's been parked a long time awaiting restoration.

Wouldn't mind an RnineT Racer with a set of Helibars so I could actually ride it for more than 20 minutes without needing a chiropractor. It's just that when you no longer need to hang the cylinders out in the breeze to keep 'em cool anymore, there's no engineering reason except legacy image to do so. I mean, I do get that part of it, but it doesn't seem like quite enough. (I concede that's a personal opinion, and further concede it's coming from someone who owns a Vespa that despite being an homage to their classic smallframes, has a 4-stroke engine and a rubber-band transmission.)

Balance? KTM makes a 74HP, 690cc single that's reasonably smooth. Taming a parallel twin should be a much easier task -- and BMW already makes their share of them, too.

I've got a Husqvarna Svartpilen 401 (Duke 390 but with sensible styling and actually good ergonomics) and oddly it reminds me of the Airhead -- higher RPM, of course, but with half the cylinder count it works out about the same in terms of exhaust-pulse frequency. Similarly narrow, similarly torquey (well, after accounting for the much smaller displacement...). The Svart is a lot better at parking-lot/traffic jam speeds, the R100RS was a lot better at highway speeds (legendary fairing vs. no windscreen at all, plus about 30HP extra and on-rails handling at speed).
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1921
Location: North Jersey
Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:03 am quote
Re: Beaten
Bill Dog wrote:
I've dried.

I can't think of anything funny to come back with.

Bill x
Oh come on... you’re slipping man.
There’s gotta be a comment w/r/t a flat twin (or not a flat twin)
there somewhere.
(See what I did there?) 😉
Hooked
1980 Honda Twinstar and 2004 Yamaha V Star
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 478
Location: Akron, Ohio
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:55 am quote
Re: Beaten
Bill Dog wrote:
I've dried.

I can't think of anything funny to come back with.

Bill x
How about, "If there were plastic in there she would be more top heavy wouldn't she."
eeee-bip
Benelli TNT 125/Kymco AK550 I don't care. You can quote me.
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 17381
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:20 am quote
Quip
Yeah, not only have I let you down I feel like I've let myself down.

I promise you that it won't happen again.

Shameful.

Bill x
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 463
Location: Nebraska
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:03 pm quote
boxers
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Confortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.

I doubt that concept bike has less available lean angle than your average Harley. Somehow the Hoggers get by. Given that long, skinny intake tube, I bet it is a torque monster, but doesn't rev much.

Was reading an article on battery tech the other day, and ran across an interesting fact. Current batteries run around $200 per kWh. So an average 15 kWh battery pack for a bike is going to run around $3000. Until that improves, not going to see many cheap e-bikes.
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 463
Location: Nebraska
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:05 pm quote
Re: boxers
Jimding wrote:
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days. And valve adjustments were a snap.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Comfortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.

I doubt that concept bike has less available lean angle than your average Harley. Somehow the Hoggers get by. Given that long, skinny intake tube, I bet it is a torque monster, but doesn't rev much.

Was reading an article on battery tech the other day, and ran across an interesting fact. Current batteries run around $200 per kWh. So an average 15 kWh battery pack for a bike is going to run around $3000. Until that improves, not going to see many cheap e-bikes.
Hooked
'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam
Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 236
Location: Southcoast, MA
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:21 am quote
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...

bike.jpg

Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2032
Location: Finland
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:13 pm quote
Point37 wrote:
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...
Ahh... you had my favourite color. I was very close to buying a similar bike, I really liked the looks, even the alloy wheels somehow felt right.
Hooked
'13 Buddy 125 Seafoam
Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 236
Location: Southcoast, MA
Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:26 pm quote
RRider wrote:
Point37 wrote:
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...
Ahh... you had my favourite color. I was very close to buying a similar bike, I really liked the looks, even the alloy wheels somehow felt right.
the versions with the alloy wheels were a little more nimble than the versions with the spoked wheels...smaller tire size with the alloy wheels and the alloy wheels were lighter...didn't really look as classic but i didn't care
Addicted
LXS 150
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 981
Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:50 pm quote
Re: boxers
Jimding wrote:
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Confortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.
...
Yeah, hear ya on the footwarmer bit. I recall riding in Utah's mountains in the fall and having to cut my stops short so I could get back on the bike to warm up again.

Of course, in the summer I'd ride with my feet on the passenger pegs whenever possible.

Man, if they came out with a RnineT variant with a 70s-80s RS-style fairing, or even RT... and it's not like they haven't reprised a few of their classics on that platform already.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2032
Location: Finland
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:23 pm quote
China only, unfortunately:

Honda CBF190TR, made in China for the local market. Modern tech as such.

The power is in Suzuki VanVan territory, but the looks... a bit like a more modern take on Ducati Scrambler?

cbf190tr 2.jpg

Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 463
Location: Nebraska
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:53 am quote
I wish
Rusty J wrote:
Man, if they came out with a RnineT variant with a 70s-80s RS-style fairing, or even RT... and it's not like they haven't reprised a few of their classics on that platform already.
The main virtue in my mind was the light weight. Replaced it with an FJR, which is way heavier, although a better bike in almost every other respect. Not sure they could replicate the light weight with modern frames, engines, suspension, etc. Frankly, a modern 600cc engine would put out the same or better power. So probably could downsize it. I'd even be willing to give up the boxer configuration.

I mentioned elsewhere that I expect the weight to become a problem in the not too distant future as I age, and that I'll be looking to move down to a lighter bike. Gotta think there are plenty of other older riders in the same boat. Never gonna get a trike. Sure seems like the MC companies might be well-served to develop some new sub-400 lb. bikes to serve that developing market. Or maybe it is just me.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1942
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:18 am quote
No ... you're not the only one to think so ...
It is a reflection based on long-term choices, BMW has not by chance opened its brand to scooters; has expanded the user base by offering a wide range, by weight, power and type of use.
Now you can afford a "muscular" (and expensive) model to pull the brand but to re-launch it had to first expand the offer.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Modded Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 5815
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:14 am quote
Attila wrote:
No ... you're not the only one to think so ...
It is a reflection based on long-term choices, BMW has not by chance opened its brand to scooters; has expanded the user base by offering a wide range, by weight, power and type of use.
Now you can afford a "muscular" (and expensive) model to pull the brand but to re-launch it had to first expand the offer.
BMW in Europe is apparently happy with sales of the C range and consider it a valuable addition to the Motorrad division. Sales here in NA suck but I’m sure they knew that going in. Though the guys here won’t call the C650 a scooter and most like the manager yesterday just consider it a step through motorcycle. Honestly I think there is a market for larger displacement bikes with a step through design and CVT transmission. Good for the city but also plenty of power to handle the interstate highways. Not surprisingly many bling term riders I talk to say they had no idea such a thing existed.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1942
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:03 am quote
...really..? I didn't think things were so different ...
This happens because Italian motorcycle magazines do not describe what happens in the other markets in the world, yet it would be interesting to communicate to readers the sales strategies used.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1942
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:12 pm quote
Ossessionato
1991 T5 Pole Position, 2008 LXS 125, 2013 Peugeot Metropolis RS
Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 3266
Location: Staffordshire UK
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:37 am quote
Liking the new little Honda ADV

youtu.be/I6lshn7FPxQ
Hooked
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 463
Location: Nebraska
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:13 am quote
Kinda
In a 'kinda' retro move, the new Tenere700 will have no driver aids other than ABS, and that can be shut off. Looking forward to sitting on one. Smaller engine than most of the ADV bikes, lighter weight, smaller, simpler. Cheaper, too. No 'ride-by-wire', and the clutch uses an old-fashioned cable. Maybe hearkens back to the older 'do-everything' bikes, with emphasis on dirt capability. Maybe a bit tall for some, but might be my 'step-down' bike. Plush suspension and upright seating should be good for bad backs, and the ability to stand on the pegs periodically should help the kneees and hips. Plenty of power for road cruising, but good ground clearance if you want to explore a trail or dirt road. Hopefully will show up on time (after a long wait) sometime next summer.
Hooked
1980 Honda Twinstar and 2004 Yamaha V Star
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 478
Location: Akron, Ohio
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:04 am quote
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2

b760b4_6ed580a4737c4dd3b56c25b7f9eb38e6_mv2_d_4928_3280_s_4_2_1024x1024@2x.jpg

Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2032
Location: Finland
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:21 pm quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
Can't help it, looking at this picture, all I can see is one the most popular Finnish 50cc (we call them mopeds, although no pedals) bike, a brand called Tunturi, especially this Super Sport model.

Engine was a 2-stroke from the Austrian Puch.

Dare I say this... I actually think Tunturi's choise of the frame looks better than that of the bobber-chopper

97eb8a7e29688737294e39345862a436.jpg

Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1942
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:30 pm quote
... there is an aesthetic affinity between chinese and finnish motorcycles ... taking nothing away from the genius of the respective countries.
Molto Verboso
2009 GTS 250, 2013 Buddy 125, 2014 Triumph Bonneville
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 1921
Location: North Jersey
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 am quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
The forks look almost toothpick thin. I wouldn’t want to hit a pothole come spring thaw time with that.
Enthusiast
Vespa Sprint 150
Joined: 17 Jan 2019
Posts: 71
Location: Portland OR
Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:51 pm quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
That's a fairly decent S90 clone.
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