Why would you want to remove the evap system?.
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Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:16 pm quote
I suspect that the system would have to be "inspected" as part of a/the yearly safety inspection -eventually (maybe ?) I have read that it can make noises ( no big deal there, as far as I am concerned ). Why do some owners remove theirs? Weight or space savings?. Thanks for your replies.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:48 pm quote
There's no need to - unless it gets clogged and causes problems. Up until now (though this may change) the Rest Of The World has got along fine without it.

It only takes an inadvertent overfill or two to render a scoot equipped with an Evap Crap system subject to stalling, difficulty to start, you name it in fuelling-related symptoms.

So the first thing to do in NA if you have one of those symptoms is to disconnect the Evap Crap. Some people who then find their scoot works just fine will then remove it altogether. Some Piaggio scoots also then recover valuable storage space.

The idea is good, the Piaggio implementation isn't the best, as they have (so far) only had to do it for the North American market - not their most immediate concern. This will change I understand with new EU mandates and the fallout from COP21.
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Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:19 pm quote
California at the moment doesn't have motorcycle inspections so a missing evap system is undetected. Don't know about other states tho.

Best
Miguel
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:18 am quote
Listen, I like being green as much as the next guy. Unfortunately Piaggio was quite lazy in their evap design. Overfilling or even laying the scoot down can clog the system.

Once clogged you have hard starting, poor (or no idling), rough running. I suppose the canister can be dried out somehow, but I don't know how.

I ran my evap system as stock for 5 years, but when I started having issues, first thing I checked was whether it was coming from the system. Definitely was, as disconnecting the hose from the tank fixed everything.

I left my system in situ but bypassed it with an overflow hose running all the way to the bottom.

As far as inspections, that varies by State, in RI a "safety inspection" required every 2 years consists of a check of the lights, brake light, blinkers, horn and tires. I can't imagine in Texas it's more strict.

P.
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:34 am quote
Thanks for your replies. I had forgotten about the canister gas soak problem.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:40 pm quote
Texas does require motorcycle inspections but it consists of going to an authorized inspection station (look it up by zip code on the web). Mine is the local shop I use for oil changes and other repairs on my cars. Ride up with your insurance card and fill out your basic info and wait until called. The you will ride the scoot up to the inspector and brake when he signals you to do so. Then you honk the horn, turn on the signals and apply the brakes when asked so they can make sure all your lights work and horn works. After that they enter the info in your record and you can renew your registration. No more sticker required with the "one sticker registration" the state switched to earlier this year.
Sponsor
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:55 pm quote
The Evap cannister takes up a lot of storage room on the BV350 and a lot of customers remove it to free up extra space in their underseat storage area. Same with the new Primavera and Sprint.
Moderatus Rana
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:01 pm quote
When I had my mp3 250 I noticed a hissing when I removed the gas cap and sometimes the cap was very hard to get loose. Reading about the evap problem here I removed the canister and the roll over valve. My issue went away. As it turned out it was the roll over valve sticking.

So when I got the 500 the first thing I did was remove the system to avoid any issues that might come up. Issues that usually happen when you are 400 miles from home or the nearest shop.
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:45 pm quote
because its a rinky dink POS system that WILL fail and cause you all kinds of headaches.
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Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:07 pm quote
old as dirt wrote:
its a rinky dink POS system that WILL fail and cause you all kinds of headaches.
That is perhaps somewhat overstated. I have owned 6 Piaggio products with an evap system. None of them have ever malfunctioned. I'm talking years of operation and 10s of thousands of miles of service. I think the main thing is the riders ability to distinguish an evap malfunction from other types of problems. If the system malfunctions, you can remedy it by draining any liquid gas from the charcoal canister or by replacing a malfunctioning valve or clogged tubing. Or you can disconnect the system if that is what you choose. All cars and light trucks have a similar system so living with it is not all that big a cross to bear.
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Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:22 am quote
The euro 4 emissions standards for motorcycles include a limit on evaporative
emissions. Maybe if Piaggio has to put an evap system on all their bikes, they
will design one that works well and is not just tacked on.
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Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:33 am quote
I had problems from day one with the BV500. Poor mileage, hard starting after a long run in hot weather, intermittent stalling, etc.

I removed the evap system on a whim and all the above problems disappeared.
The greatest benefit was the increased under seat storage, The next best was the increased mileage, about 10 to 15 %.
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:47 pm quote
Getting curious on this side of the pond - how does this system look like? What does it actually do?
Molto Verboso
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Location: Minneapolis USA
Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:19 pm quote
Vehicle / Scooter Inspections
I have previously posted on this subject. The State of Minnesota
eliminated mandatory vehicle condition/emission inspections because 99.9%
of all those inspected (Modern Technology) passed.

So, to all you States, Countries and Governments that worship at
the altar of bureaucratic and administrative junk-o, God Bless
each and everyone of you.

Bob Copeland
Member
GTS300 Super
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:01 pm quote
bv 500
EN82pg wrote:
I had problems from day one with the BV500. Poor mileage, hard starting after a long run in hot weather, intermittent stalling, etc.

I removed the evap system on a whim and all the above problems disappeared.
The greatest benefit was the increased under seat storage, The next best was the increased mileage, about 10 to 15 %.
I had a BV 500 a few years ago and it started having issues so I took it in. A few months later i decided to remove the canister and discovered that the shop had disconnected the evap system. Got a kick out of that.
Hooked
2005 ET4 150
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:09 pm quote
Re: Vehicle / Scooter Inspections
Bob Copeland wrote:
I have previously posted on this subject. The State of Minnesota
eliminated mandatory vehicle condition/emission inspections because 99.9%
of all those inspected (Modern Technology) passed.

So, to all you States, Countries and Governments that worship at
the altar of bureaucratic and administrative junk-o, God Bless
each and everyone of you.

Bob Copeland
Lots of nice things to say about Minnesota, add another one



Thanks
Foiled
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1240
Location: Naples
Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:42 pm quote
Every modern scoot I have had needed the evap removed, except my wife's LX150 and her S150. Riding style must matter. I think if you ride hard gas gets up in the canister and causes issues. It's a simple procedure.
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:05 pm quote
old as dirt wrote:
because its a rinky dink POS system that WILL fail and cause you all kinds of headaches.
That is a good reason.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:48 pm quote
RRider wrote:
Getting curious on this side of the pond - how does this system look like? What does it actually do?
Basically it is structured like this (carbed LX system shown) and is supposed to prevent gasoline vapor from venting into the air. (ozone layer, global warming, all that stuff)

LX150 evap_diagram.jpg

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Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:13 am quote
Thanks Dooglas, now I got it. Seen something like this in cars, but never dreamed of seeing these in two-wheelers. Quite a lot of hassle for the realistic amount evaporation.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:25 am quote
RRider wrote:
Thanks Dooglas, now I got it. Seen something like this in cars, but never dreamed of seeing these in two-wheelers. Quite a lot of hassle for the realistic amount evaporation.
I believe euro 4 emissions standards in Europe will mandate fuel evaporation control.
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New 300 GTS
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Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:56 pm quote
I have a Victory big twin MC. the tank vents out through a hose down by the swing arm (also the over flow). I know that this is somewhat crude, but works Ok. My concern is on a hot day you can smell the gas fumes (if you right at the hose end) NOT just after a fill up either. probaby not enough to worry about- but if I were parking in a garage-that had a gas operated water heater I might feel a little nervous. gas fumes stay low to the ground. Just an observation on that system (1999). SO if the Vespa system evap is defeated the fumes no longer go through a charcoal canister. Do you have to leave a vent hose open ?.or does tank hose get plugged? I assume the gas cap works as a one way valve-lets air in-not out. Just wondering, should I need to "repair my evap system".
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:23 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
RRider wrote:
Thanks Dooglas, now I got it. Seen something like this in cars, but never dreamed of seeing these in two-wheelers. Quite a lot of hassle for the realistic amount evaporation.
I believe euro 4 emissions standards in Europe will mandate fuel evaporation control.
Euro 4 should be easily OK without this, it focuses more on what comes out from the exhaust pipe. Totally other thing is, that just to make their life simple, manufacturers may harmonize their global offering while adjusting the vehicles to euro 4....so we may be lucky to get these "improvements" here too
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:06 am quote
kawzak wrote:
I have a Victory big twin MC. the tank vents out through a hose down by the swing arm (also the over flow). I know that this is somewhat crude, but works Ok. My concern is on a hot day you can smell the gas fumes (if you right at the hose end) NOT just after a fill up either. probaby not enough to worry about- but if I were parking in a garage-that had a gas operated water heater I might feel a little nervous. gas fumes stay low to the ground. Just an observation on that system (1999). SO if the Vespa system evap is defeated the fumes no longer go through a charcoal canister. Do you have to leave a vent hose open ?.or does tank hose get plugged? I assume the gas cap works as a one way valve-lets air in-not out. Just wondering, should I need to "repair my evap system".
There's a "how-to" in the wiki section.
Hooked
GT200
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:08 am quote
on a large frame Vespa one of the first things you have to learn is to fill the tank SLOWLY with spout pointed towards the rear. If you don't do that it's pretty easy to splash gas in the "pet carrier" and do that just a few times and the auxiliary charcoal filled gas tank (otherwise know as the evaporate canister) can fill causing some odd behaviors in an otherwise perfectly fine running bike. An evap exorcism is seriously unlikely to cause the end of western civilization as we now know it but it just may reduce your random usage of expletives. YMMV.
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:24 am quote
Location of the canister
In cars, there is plenty of space to locate the canister above the level of the fuel tank where it can never become saturated. Some scooters also have this arrangement, but the modern two-wheeled Vespas have the canister below the fuel level. You can be working against gravity here after overfilling the tank.

Cheers,
Bob
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:18 am quote
kawzak wrote:
SO if the Vespa system evap is defeated the fumes no longer go through a charcoal canister. Do you have to leave a vent hose open ?.or does tank hose get plugged? I assume the gas cap works as a one way valve-lets air in-not out. Just wondering, should I need to "repair my evap system".
If the evap system on a Vespa is removed, the tank must be vented to the atmosphere. The fuel cap on a modern Vespa with evap system is NOT vented. Just for discussion, removing the evap system also removes the rollover valve which is intended to prevent liquid fuel for running out on the ground when a scooter is laid on it's side in an accident.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:55 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
kawzak wrote:
SO if the Vespa system evap is defeated the fumes no longer go through a charcoal canister. Do you have to leave a vent hose open ?.or does tank hose get plugged? I assume the gas cap works as a one way valve-lets air in-not out. Just wondering, should I need to "repair my evap system".
If the evap system on a Vespa is removed, the tank must be vented to the atmosphere. The fuel cap on a modern Vespa with evap system is NOT vented.
In the rest if the world, the cap isn't vented either - but the same vent tube that connects to the evap system is run across the top of the tank and then down to vent just below the transmission.
Quote:
Just for discussion, removing the evap system also removes the rollover valve which is intended to prevent liquid fuel for running out on the ground when a scooter is laid on it's side in an accident.
A correctly routed vent tube (as above) doesn't need a roll-over valve, as the tube always has a part higher than the tank even when the bike's on its side.

DIY evap crap removal should always ensure the vent tube is properly re-routed.
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2:6
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:49 am quote
it's odd, The SYM HD200 got away with just a rollover value and nothing more.

On my bikes I have left the evap in place and not had an issue even with quite a few overfills. That said as soon as it does act up, out it will come. But I would leave a rollover or check valve in place on the vent line.
Petty Tyrant
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:30 pm quote
1) The Piaggio evap system is a piece of shit and prone to failure (though obviously not everyone has experienced this. yet.)

2) Removing it saves weight.

3) It's a piece of shit.

4) Its presence on all Piaggio bikes sold in North America is solely due to California regulations. No other states, AFAIK, require it.

5) It's a piece of shit.

6) Until very recently, nobody else anywhere in the world required an evaporative system on motorcycles.

7) It's a piece of shit.
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:19 pm quote
I've never had a problem with mine, it's in the local landfill
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:22 pm quote
I removed mine from my 250GTS and it starts easier, runs better and gets better milege.
Resident Grump
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:38 pm quote
Restored mine for the sale, but it ran better without. Why wouldn't you remove it!
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Piaggio BV350
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:52 pm quote
jess wrote:
1) The Piaggio evap system is a piece of shit and prone to failure (though obviously not everyone has experienced this. yet.)

2) Removing it saves weight.

3) It's a piece of shit.

4) Its presence on all Piaggio bikes sold in North America is solely due to California regulations. No other states, AFAIK, require it.

5) It's a piece of shit.

6) Until very recently, nobody else anywhere in the world required an evaporative system on motorcycles.

7) It's a piece of shit.
WOW! Just three more and you'd catch up with Moses.
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Piaggio BV350
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Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:53 pm quote
I removed mine today and I'll let you know how it effects my B350.
Hooked
Severl Scooters
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Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:36 pm quote
rkcoker wrote:
I removed mine today and I'll let you know how it effects my B350.
Any updates?
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Piaggio BV350
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Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:45 am quote
Sorry! Oldtimers Syndrome!
No effect on the running of the scoot. No more cow mooing or groaning after shutoff. Did open up more volume in the pet carrier. All positive as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, make sure the gas tank vent opens outside the under seat.
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New 300 GTS
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Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:51 am quote
Are symptoms or operation of the evaporate system any better/ worse (after a few overfills) for the fuel injected models- vs- a carbureted Vespa ?.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:52 am quote
rkcoker wrote:
No effect on the running of the scoot.
rkcoker wrote:
All positive as far as I'm concerned.
In other words, no benefit to operation of the scooter?
The positive, I presume, was a bit of space in the pet carrier?
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Piaggio BV350
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Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:49 am quote
The positive, I presume, was a bit of space in the pet carrier?

And no cow mooing! Very important!
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