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Hi All,

Looking to get an older MP3 (ideally 250 as I just want something for kicking around town), but I'm new to all things fewer-than-four-wheels, and I remember someone telling me that, all things being equal, a five-year-old motorcycle will be in worse shape than a five-year-old car. (Something about engine vibrations?)

It sounds like the plural of anecdote to me, but I don't know enough about bikes to dismiss it out of hand.

Any thoughts?


Thanks.
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I have a 2008 400 and it is holding up well. I have about 37000km's on it and it runs great. It is all about how well the previous owner did with maintenance. Make sure that you can verify all the work done and you should be ok.
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Re: How Well Do Older MP3s Hold Up?
rcinla wrote:
Hi All,

Looking to get an older MP3 (ideally 250 as I just want something for kicking around town), but I'm new to all things fewer-than-four-wheels, and I remember someone telling me that, all things being equal, a five-year-old motorcycle will be in worse shape than a five-year-old car. (Something about engine vibrations?)

It sounds like the plural of anecdote to me, but I don't know enough about bikes to dismiss it out of hand.

Any thoughts?


Thanks.
It depends if you are a Rider that does your own Maintenance.

I personally consider the MP3/250 as a "Collector".

It has the traditional 250cc Engine found on many other Vespa/Piaggio/Aprilla Scoots, so parts will be easy to obtain for years.
You can also find parts on ebay.com but be careful not to overpay for them. Compare the Dealer/Online Seller Price vs what it can be obtained as New...

The body parts are easy to replace once you understand the "Banana Pealing" mentality of how it all goes together. May be hard to find here in the US over time, but plentiful on Europe because the Body Style is similar to the MP3/400, so I think parts will be available for a long time New and Used.

My personal experience...
I used to have two MP3/250's, then traded the oldest for a New MP3/500 Sport. So I have a Pair, and also a GTS 300 Sport.
I like the MP3/250, so I have a lot of spare parts from sellers on ebay that sold them at prices that I don't mind spending money on where I may never need them, but I can always re-list them on ebay and get my monce back.
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Re: How Well Do Older MP3s Hold Up?
rcinla wrote:
Hi All,

Looking to get an older MP3 (ideally 250 as I just want something for kicking around town), but I'm new to all things fewer-than-four-wheels, and I remember someone telling me that, all things being equal, a five-year-old motorcycle will be in worse shape than a five-year-old car. (Something about engine vibrations?)

It sounds like the plural of anecdote to me, but I don't know enough about bikes to dismiss it out of hand.

Any thoughts?


Thanks.
I have seen a lot of 50 year cars and motorcycles in better condition than one 3-4 years old. ya think its got anything to do with how one cares and maintains them?

So that someone could be a little bit WRONG.

My Mp3 is one of the first 500's in the USA and it is just fine. Also the 250's vespas that are older than the first 250 mp3 do just fine as long as they are cared for properly. Now if you want to rag one out, yeah couple years and its toast IMO.
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My 2008 MP3 400 is one of first in the United States (number eleven) and is still going strong as my daily rider with 25,000 miles on it. The key is keeping up with proper maintenance and (if needed) repair.
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My `07 250 MP3 I bought from OAD 8? years ago is still doing just fine, even tho I don't put synthetic oil in it. It all depends on how they are treated by their owners. I do my own maintenance, but up to now that's not much.
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norCal Randy wrote:
My `07 250 MP3 I bought from OAD 8? years ago is still doing just fine, even tho I don't put synthetic oil in it. It all depends on how they are treated by their owners. I do my own maintenance, but up to now that's not much.
No, you don't understand WHY synthetic is required. It will run fine till hot oil passages get blocked by the varnish that is building up from using dino oil. You will find that out at some point if you put enough miles on it.
It makes no sense when a synthetic oil change cost $8 and a dino oil change costs about $5 or $6. So you're saving a whole damn $2-$3 an oil change for an oil that is 100x inferior. That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you spin it.
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WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
My `07 250 MP3 I bought from OAD 8? years ago is still doing just fine, even tho I don't put synthetic oil in it. It all depends on how they are treated by their owners. I do my own maintenance, but up to now that's not much.
No, you don't understand WHY synthetic is required. It will run fine till hot oil passages get blocked by the varnish that is building up from using dino oil. You will find that out at some point if you put enough miles on it.
It makes no sense when a synthetic oil change cost $8 and a dino oil change costs about $5 or $6. So you're saving a whole damn $2-$3 an oil change for an oil that is 100x inferior. That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you spin it.
$8 cost is for use of Rotella T6 at $22/gallon at Walmart. AGIP oil is $15/quart not including shipping so AGIP oil change can easily be $30+ with shipping included.

Do you think the $30+ cost to go with a class 4 AGIP oil is worth the 4x cost compared to the $8 to go with a class 3 Rottela T6? Is the class 4 synthetic that much better than the class 3 synthetic for 4x the cost?
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Volusiano wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
My `07 250 MP3 I bought from OAD 8? years ago is still doing just fine, even tho I don't put synthetic oil in it. It all depends on how they are treated by their owners. I do my own maintenance, but up to now that's not much.
No, you don't understand WHY synthetic is required. It will run fine till hot oil passages get blocked by the varnish that is building up from using dino oil. You will find that out at some point if you put enough miles on it.
It makes no sense when a synthetic oil change cost $8 and a dino oil change costs about $5 or $6. So you're saving a whole damn $2-$3 an oil change for an oil that is 100x inferior. That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you spin it.
$8 cost is for use of Rotella T6 at $22/gallon at Walmart. AGIP oil is $15/quart not including shipping so AGIP oil change can easily be $30+ with shipping included.

Do you think the $30+ cost to go with a class 4 AGIP oil is worth the 4x cost compared to the $8 to go with a class 3 Rottela T6? Is the class 4 synthetic that much better than the class 3 synthetic for 4x the cost?
Not talking types of synthetic here, we are talking dino or synthetic. Dino oil = standard NON synthetic oil, because that is what he uses.

And I just bought a case of AGIP and it was only $11 a qt.

I use AGIP because I know it's a better oil for motorcycles. T6 is a great oil for diesels and it is rated for these motors, but because of the high soot protection needed in a diesel it's not the best for our motors, nothing wrong, just better oil out there and I choose to use the better.

And yes, class 4 will be a better oil than class 3, that it why there is a price difference. Always prefer a true synthetic over a hydro cracked oil.
And you're comparing the lowest cost you can get T6 at to the highest cost you can find AGIP at. Go buy a qts of T6 and it's $7 a qt. and cheapest AGIP is only $11 so nowhere near 4 times the cost.
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WEB-Tech wrote:
Volusiano wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
My `07 250 MP3 I bought from OAD 8? years ago is still doing just fine, even tho I don't put synthetic oil in it. It all depends on how they are treated by their owners. I do my own maintenance, but up to now that's not much.
No, you don't understand WHY synthetic is required. It will run fine till hot oil passages get blocked by the varnish that is building up from using dino oil. You will find that out at some point if you put enough miles on it.
It makes no sense when a synthetic oil change cost $8 and a dino oil change costs about $5 or $6. So you're saving a whole damn $2-$3 an oil change for an oil that is 100x inferior. That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you spin it.
$8 cost is for use of Rotella T6 at $22/gallon at Walmart. AGIP oil is $15/quart not including shipping so AGIP oil change can easily be $30+ with shipping included.

Do you think the $30+ cost to go with a class 4 AGIP oil is worth the 4x cost compared to the $8 to go with a class 3 Rottela T6? Is the class 4 synthetic that much better than the class 3 synthetic for 4x the cost?
Not talking types of synthetic here, we are talking dino or synthetic. Dino oil = standard NON synthetic oil, because that is what he uses.

And I just bought a case of AGIP and it was only $11 a qt.

I use AGIP because I know it's a better oil for motorcycles. T6 is a great oil for diesels and it is rated for these motors, but because of the high soot protection needed in a diesel it's not the best for our motors, nothing wrong, just better oil out there and I choose to use the better.

And yes, class 4 will be a better oil than class 3, that it why there is a price difference. Always prefer a true synthetic over a hydro cracked oil.
Do you mind sharing where you bought your case of AGIP for $11/qt? Is it AF1 Racing? I don't mind paying a bit more to go from $8 for Rotella to about $17 for AGIP per oil change.

My only concern about buying a whole case is whether I'd be able to use the whole case up before the shelf life expires on them...
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I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
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Volusiano wrote:
Do you mind sharing where you bought your case of AGIP for $11/qt? Is it AF1 Racing? I don't mind paying a bit more to go from $8 for Rotella to about $17 for AGIP per oil change.

My only concern about buying a whole case is whether I'd be able to use the whole case up before the shelf life expires on them...
Right from ENI America/AGIP
https://buyenilubes.com/
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norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
Changing it every 500 miles doesn't prevent varnish build up in high heat areas. Which is the reason a synthetic oil is required.
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norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
One day in the near future, you would be put in jail for wasting non renewable resources
Really, that is just a waste, throwing away your grand kids resources.
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WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
Changing it every 500 miles doesn't prevent varnish build up in high heat areas. Which is the reason a synthetic oil is required.
You are delusional since our MP3s are water cooled, so high heat is not a factor for them. I've ridden my 400 MP3 thru 124F ambient temp. and the scooter's motor didn't get any hotter than usual according to the temp. gauge..
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WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
Changing it every 500 miles doesn't prevent varnish build up in high heat areas. Which is the reason a synthetic oil is required.
I change my 250 0il every 2,000 miles. Go find someone else to rag on. You bore me.
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rcinla wrote:
Looking to get an older MP3 (ideally 250 as I just want something for kicking around town), but I'm new to all things fewer-than-four-wheels...
The MP3 is a somewhat unique machine. The good news is that means some unusual capabilities. The bad news is that it is more mechanically and electronically complex than most bikes. As you have no experience with 2 or 3-wheel rides, may I inquire the reasons you are drawn to an MP3? I ask as a 2-wheel scooter of similar engine size would be less expensive and easier to maintain.
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Popcorn emoticon Why do so many threads turn into oil wars?
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norCal Randy wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
Changing it every 500 miles doesn't prevent varnish build up in high heat areas. Which is the reason a synthetic oil is required.
You are delusional since our MP3s are water cooled, so high heat is not a factor for them. I've ridden my 400 MP3 thru 124F ambient temp. and the scooter's motor didn't get any hotter than usual according to the temp. gauge..
It has nothing what so ever to do with whether it is water or air cool dude. You don't understands engine or oil, you just proved it with that statement. And thus have no right to tell anyone what oil to use.
How hot do you think the exhaust valve area gets?
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14perry wrote:
Popcorn emoticon Why do so many threads turn into oil wars?
Because some people think they understand oil, but don't have even a clue what they are talking about. And his last statement proves that.
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WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
I pay less than $3/qt. for my dino oil and I change it 3X as often as you do your syn. oil. in my 250. Will let you know if your theory ever happens.
Changing it every 500 miles doesn't prevent varnish build up in high heat areas. Which is the reason a synthetic oil is required.
You are delusional since our MP3s are water cooled, so high heat is not a factor for them. I've ridden my 400 MP3 thru 124F ambient temp. and the scooter's motor didn't get any hotter than usual according to the temp. gauge..
It has nothing what so ever to do with whether it is water or air cool dude. You don't understands engine or oil, you just proved it with that statement. And thus have no right to tell anyone what oil to use.
How hot do you think the exhaust valve area gets?
I'm not telling anybody what oil to use, YOU are.



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So Nya!

Anyhoo, my MP3 passed 23,000 miles in the last couple of days. Runs well, considering it had a pile of wood fall on it late last fall. Stupid gravity. Wha? emoticon
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Dooglas wrote:
... a 2-wheel scooter of similar engine size would be less expensive and easier to maintain.
...until Honda makes three wheelers.
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WEB-Tech wrote:
How hot do you think the exhaust valve area gets?
How much does a henway? How much hotter do you think the exhaust valve area gets than it gets in a Honda or Yamaha scooter where they don't demand you use a very expensive grade of oil? How much longer do Piaggio engines last than Honda or Yamaha engines? Look at what 10-40 costs compared to 5-40. It's silly. There are a lot of real riders out there who have hundreds of thousands of miles on bikes who never put this much thought into motor oil. I'm not saying they're right because they are out riding a lot and don't have any imaginary problems from not using magic oil (which I wholeheartedly use and recommend) and you don't know what you are talking about, I'm just saying they ride a lot of miles and don't have a whole lot of problems attributed to high valve temperatures or varnish buildup or whatever Google tells you happened to one guy. Given how well motors are made now, how clean oil is, how clean the combustion process is and how well filters work, I suspect that if you change it often enough, dollar store oil will probably work, until it doesn't. I wouldn't use it, but I'm not going to tell someone with a whole lot of miles on a bike that he doesn't know what he's talking about, with one glaring exception, of course. .
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When it comes to oil, I only run the manufactures recommended oil codes in my vehicles. VW for example recommends long life oil with the code VW 507 00. BMW recommends LL-04 for their long life oils. If it recommends JASO spec oils for their service interval cycles, I run that coding. I think Piaggio did enough testing to certify this oil. If it was an older vehicle from the 80's, dino oil would be just fine to be honest, but with new motors and the synthetic tech that is out, it makes no sense to run anything other than the manufactures recommended coding. On that note, anyone running anything other than the manufactures recommended spec and having no issues is just fine. Oil is Oil for the most part when running a good brand name. Mobil 1, Castrol, Agip, etc. I am willing the specs for the cleaning agents in the oil are almost exactly the same. I don't see a point in changing oil, when running manufactures specs, sooner than the manual states. My VW Touran has a 30000km oil change cycle when running the correct long life filter and oil. Why change it sooner? If the Piaggio manaul states every 10000km with the proper oil...just drive. If using oil outside of those specs, then stick with your oil change cycle, but even then, I am pretty sure you could run the manuals recommended service intervals. if you really wanted to see how your oil really stood up, get it analyzed by a company and have them tell you exactly what is in it.

just my two cents.
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Motovista wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
How hot do you think the exhaust valve area gets?
How much does a henway? How much hotter do you think the exhaust valve area gets than it gets in a Honda or Yamaha scooter where they don't demand you use a very expensive grade of oil?
Honda seems to disagree with you for anything but low heat riding. And a scooter going WOT down the highway, isn't a low heat condition.
From Honda website:

"FOUR-STROKE OILS:
Pro Honda HP4S - Red bottle / silver foil label. This is the "Crown Jewel"
of the Pro Honda Oils line, our very 1st Full Synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle
oil. Pro Honda HP4S is a full synthetic 4 stroke motorcycle oil designed to bring
maximum performance to the Pro Honda line of oils. Because it is a full
synthetic, you get the following benefits:
Lower fluid friction than conventional oils.
Better oxidation resistance for better high heat performance.
Higher film strength under heat and load than conventional oil.
Quicker flow to vital engine parts at low temperature, especially during start
up.

Maximum power due to less frictional drag from the oil.
Recommended for high performance riding where vehicles are operated
under extreme temperatures.

Plus, this is not just any synthetic. It has been tested and approved by Honda R & D, and
developed by the same engineers that make the oil for the Honda Racing Team!
HP4S is packaged in red bottles with a silver foil label and is currently available in 10w30
viscosity only.

Pro Honda HP4 - Gold bottle/black and gold label. This is the top of the line
premium 4-stroke synthetic "blend" motorcycle oil and is recommended for
all "normal" riding situations.
Normal riding situations are when the
motorcycle or ATV is used as designed and is not "lugged" or run near redline
for extended periods of time.
HP4 is a blend of synthetic and petroleum base
stocks for excellent oxidization reduction, less evaporation, shear stability for
smoother shifting and less viscosity loss. HP4 does not contain moly; so
expected clutch life is longer than a moly formulated oil. HP4 is sold in a gold
bottle with black label, available in OW30 (for cold weather ATV applications), 10W40
weights.

Pro Honda GN4 - Black bottle/red label. Intended as an all around 4-stroke
oil motorcycle for normal everyday riding; low heat applications. GN4 is a petroleum-based motorcycle 4-stroke oil recommended for scooters, ATV's and motorcycles used for light duty and low heat usage. Commuting, normal street rides, casual trail use and low engine stress situations do not cause as much heat to build up in the engine therefore a less expensive additive package can be utilized. This is our original motorcycle oil formula developed specifically for motorcycles and blended with an additive package to meet the unique shifting requirements of shared engine and transmission sump designs. GN4 is packaged in a 1-litre black bottle with a red label, available in 10W30, 10W40, 20W50 and also 5w30 weight for cold weather ATV use."


So in other words a Scooter going down the highway at top speed that is stressing the motor and creating lots of heat should not use this standard oil and should upgrade to their Synthetic Blend.

They even make the comment, "Normal riding situations are when the
motorcycle or ATV is used as designed and is not "lugged" or run near redline" that I highlighted. And that a recommendation on when their SEMI Synthetic is NOT good enough. When is a scooter not run near red line?
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