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@scoot109 avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P200E
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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Hooked
@scoot109 avatar
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
I need to replace a few of the short wires that connect from the CDI to the junction box, as they are all frayed and brittle.

I'm not finding a "kit" for this online, so I'm wondering what kind of wiring I should purchase. I have spare connectors, and can crimp them myself.
⚠️ Last edited by Scoot109 on UTC; edited 2 times
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UTC quote
I'm guessing from your description your ignition wires (green, white, red) are crumbling. Best route is to go to Vespa Motorsports and buy a flywheel removal tool and a new stator rewire harness $15. The rewire harness is precut to length and has the correct connectors already soldered on.
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UTC quote
What he's telling you is that those particular wires go thru the junction box, all the way into the stator & are soldered on in there. If you can't wait or too far away, you can make your own easily, but they are pretty cheap w/ all right colors & connectors & length etc. as mentioned. Don't just splice on where they come into the j-box.
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1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Here's what it looks like inside the junction box right now..
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@mjrally avatar
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UTC quote
All the wires in the bottom half of the box come from the stator. If they're crumbled at the junction box they are also crumbled at the stator. Pull and rewire the whole thing or pay the guys at Motorsports to do it for you. I re-soldered two stators this last week. 10 minutes of soldering with the $15 kit was a breeze.

The other thing I noticed is your green kill wire is also crumbling. Search the forum for the green kill wire insulation and you'll get tons or topics. PM me if you need helping re-wire things.
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@scoot109 avatar
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1980 P200E
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UTC quote
MJRally, thanks for the explanation. It all makes more sense to me now.

Going to see about an estimate from ScooterWest, or may do it myself. I think there are other issues with the bike that need to be addressed as well.

Starting to regret this purchase, actually. The bike ran fine for the first month or so, but now I'm uncovering new issues weekly. Hopefully I'll get them all sorted out before I spend too much more money.

I realize the bike is ~35 years old, and these things require periodic maintenance/tinkering, but I just want to ride the damn thing!
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UTC quote
Larry Moe and Curly
Scoot109 wrote:
I'm uncovering new issues weekly. Hopefully I'll get them all sorted out before I spend too much more money.

I think most of us have said the same thing....and continue to. My f-in list gets shorter for a couple weeks and then all of a sudden grows exponentially.

I am in SD too. we will PM you next time we do a weekend ride
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UTC quote
Don't give up on scooters just yet. Once you give things a good once over your scoot will happily run fine for a while. It's just the initial shock/gremlins to take care of. Happy to help if you need it.
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UTC quote
In my opinion you could get a new P150 or new high tech Tn'G that would be more environmentally friendly, etc to avoid this kind of thing which seems more or less normal on used Vespas. But I'd always choose the simple older geared 2 stroke w/ some problems over a similar used 4T auto. Even if I was paying to have it fixed.*

At least your bike seems solid and the problems you find should be like this, fairly easy to fix if you are willing to and sometimes even enjoy digging into old machines and solving puzzles. It usually gets better, what else have had to fix so far?

*Just guessing, but if you take your bike in & just have it done for you, I'll bet it would be considerably less money than the same job on a new model Vespa. That might be a plan and you could have it inspected at the same time for the usual things like this that are not obvious to you until there's a problem. A few bucks for carefree riding could be worth it and you have a highly thought of shop nearby.
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
A few bucks for carefree riding could be worth it and you have a highly thought of shop nearby.
a few HUNDRED bucks more like. Motorsports is like $85/hr.

HOWEVER....yes you will have total peace of mind that it was dialed in correctly... cotter pin was put back in, wheel on right way round and all cables done right, etc.... and you will be back on the road in a week or two.

If you have electrical gremlins then at least your shyte will work and you saved a lot of aggravation.

I took my P there right off the bat and I am glad I did. Got me on the road right away...SAFELY. you mentioned 35 yr old machine.....remember that always.

OR....there is the amazing MJ dude that has already offered help here twice....he is very knowledgeable, might teach you a thing or 6, AND I heard he drops off scoots at your house around Christmas time!
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Thanks for all the suggestions/tips/encouragement.

I don't generally mind tinkering with the bike. This is the second one I've owned, and have always liked these since I was a teenager, so I'm willing to stick with it. I love riding them.

Guess I'm just frustrated because it's been one thing after another, and this particular problem has cropped up as I thought I was fixing another problem.

So far I've done the following since purchase the bike a couple months ago:
1. Replaced dead battery and re-wired the positive terminal lead
2. Replaced/upgraded headlight
3. Swapped rims and tires with the ones from my previous bike (brand new tires, never ridden on the old one)
4. Found rust in the gas tank and swapped it with my old tank, which I had previously cleaned and is rust-free
5. Replaced fuel line with brand new one
6. Rebuilt the carb
7. Replaced snapped clutch cable

After all this, the bike started up fine, but idled erratically at times, leading me to suspect I have an air leak somewhere.

On the other hand, the bogging problem I had when revving seemed to be gone.

Then the other day, it wouldn't start at all. I get a spark, but it just won't start.

My next step was going to be simply run the engine to warm it up, then drain and replace the gearbox oil.

So now I'm working on this newly found wiring issue, and hoping that the bike will start after I get that finished. Not optimistic about it at this point....but will keep pushing forward.
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UTC quote
Any scoot, any bike will need going through after a while. But once you get the problems out of the way, it is just everyday maintenance. And the P series is about as reliable - trouble free as you can get. Until you start tinkering with it, of course. Razz emoticon
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Ok, I bought the new ignition kill switch green wire and about ready to snake it through.

Question: Can I snake it through outside of the wiring loom, or should I try to get it inside the wiring loom? I'm having trouble finding exact steps with accompanying photos or video. I get the general idea, but just a bit unsure.

The replacement wire came with some black insulated sections to protect it at key points inside the frame.


Stator is being rewired at Vespa Motorsports. I'll also replace the flywheel side seal.
@mjrally avatar
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UTC quote
Snake it on the outside of the harness. There's no way to get it inside. For extra bonus points, wrap the new wire with some electrical tape or shrink wrap if you have it for protection.

Steps I used two weeks ago to replace a crumbling kill wire were:

1.Open headset and look and see if the keyswitch green wire and thumb switch green wire are toast, remove horncast, remove gas tank or lift it up enough so you can get underneath it.

2. Run a spare cable inner from the horncast towards the rear of the scoot. Tape the new wire to the cable and pull part of the new wire aft and then feed it through the grommet that holds the harness, choke and throttle cables.

3. Measure how much you need to go through the junction box and to the cdi.

4. Measure how much wire you need to go to the horncast junction box and connect the wire to the existing green wires coming from the headset.

5. Crimp/solder new connections and button everything up.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
it's also worth considering just replacing the stator. if you are paying shop to re-wire it, it's almost a wash.

a new one runs about $85-115, depending on witch manufacturer you go with.
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
MJ, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

I was over-thinking this, and thinking about it completely backwards as well. After reading your post I was able to snake the wire through with little difficulty!

The wire has plenty of extra length, and the majority of it has a protective tube around it.

Now all that's left to do is trim the cable, put the connectors on, and connect it at each end.

Rob - the guy at the shop said the stator looks fine, but they will run it through some tests, according to the description of the rewire service. I see what you mean, thanks, although I've already given them the existing stator to work on, so I'll go with that for now.
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Update: Stator back
Got the re-wired stator back from the shop a re-installed it.

The first couple of kicks and the bike seemed like it "wanted" to start, but then after that, nothing.

Question: How do I know which yellow wire to connect to which? I tried swapping them around but that made no difference.

I have also replaced the flywheel side seal, and was careful when re-attaching the flywheel to make sure and line up the woodruff key. I feel confident the seal is properly seated, and I torqued the flywheel to within range.

Anything I may be missing? The bike did start before I had this work done, but just would not stay running. Now it won't even start....grr.

The ignition kill switch wire is not yet connected. I am getting a spark - it looks to me like its a good spark.
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UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni, 2008 Vespa S150
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UTC quote
Re: Update: Stator back
Scoot109 wrote:
The ignition kill switch wire is not yet connected. I am getting a spark - it looks to me like its a good spark.
If you have good spark, nice blue not yellow spark, try a spray of staring fluid into the carb. If it starts for a sec you have a fuel problem if it stays the same you have an ignition or timing issue. If it's the second, I would check that the woodruff key didn't shear.
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Ok thanks, I'll try that tonight.
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UTC quote
Maybe check your timing. The stator marks are a best estimate but can be off by a few degrees.
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UTC quote
Oh, you mean I was supposed to line something up when I re-attached the stator? I just put it back on in what is most likely just an approximate position to what it was in before.

Looks like I need to go back to that step and make sure the timing marks are lined up.

Thanks!
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UTC quote
Yes, there is an an A and IT mark, at least on later stators, a non-kitted P200 should be A.

But you can always check with a timing gun to make sure it is at 23 degrees BDC with a timing gun and degree wheel. Probably good with electronics and all, especially with a rewired stator.

If you read my pre edit post, disregard, I thought you were trying to take a crack at the timing idea.
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Ok, using start fluid I got the bike to start.

I looked in the fuel tank and discovered it was empty - even though I had put gas in not long ago.

So I added gas, then the bike started up fine and idled without stalling once I adjusted the idle screw a bit.

I buttoned most of it up to take for a short test ride, then couldn't get it to start again.

I looked at the carb, and there is fuel dripping into the main chamber (?) even when the fuel tap is turned off, which explains why my fuel tank drained over the last couple of weeks.

So my question now - is this the fuel tap, or the carb float, or both? The carb has recently been rebuilt by me, so it is possible I did something wrong.

I disconnected the fuel line and plugged it up to stop the dripping for now.

I attached an image (not my actual carb) to help clarify where the drip is coming from.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
I opened up the carburetor and the float was filled with fuel! This is a brand new float from a new rebuild kit.

I put the old one in and no more dripping.

Took the bike for a ride and all seems well, except that I was riding the whole time with the fuel turned off, so the fuel tap is definitely not working properly.

Question: Is it okay to ride like this? After I replaced the carb float and re-attached the fuel line, the bike was sitting for quite a some time while I re-attached the flywheel cover, finished wiring the ignition kill switch, etc. It started just fine after 3 kicks.
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
take a look in the fuel tank to see if the breather tube came off the valve. If the copper tube came off the fuel valve it will not shut off. Happened to me more than once.
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
More Updates:

Checked the fuel tank breather tube and it is in place. Pretty sure at this point it's just bad fuel tap.

Questions:
My stator plate doesn't have the markings that I see on lots of other stators, so I set it as in the attached photo by lining up the markings you can see at about 7 o'clock. The engine seems to run and rev fine. Is this okay?

I found that I had to open up the air/fuel mix screw quite a bit more than 2.5 turns to get the bike to stay idling and not die. I haven't done a chop test yet, but I think it's probably running a bit rich - any harm in that? There is no bogging at low, mid or high revs, and it seems to idle smoothly, even at a low idle speed.

I also attached a photo of the newly installed flywheel side seal. Pretty sure I got it right - any thoughts?


Thanks again for any input, your tips, comments and suggestions have been very helpful!
Re-installed stator after re-wiring.
Re-installed stator after re-wiring.
Newly replaced flywheel side seal.
Newly replaced flywheel side seal.
@mjrally avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Looks good. Other than cleaning up in the stator area, torque down the flywheel to 45 ft/lbs and enjoy!
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@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Good, thanks! And that photo was taken prior to cleanup and putting everything back together.

I've taken it on a few short rides and it seems to be running nicely. Smooth idling and smooth acceleration.
@niz76 avatar
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Hooked
1980 Vespa P200E
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UTC quote
I have that same stator and had it adjusted the same way stock and it ran good. Of course now it's all modded up and I'm using a timing light!
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UTC

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UTC quote
Clean up the taper on your crank & inside your flywheel before you install. It's the tight taper cinched down to the right torque that carries the considerable oscillating load driving the flywheel, not that little key! You'll need to get the key out to do it right.

PS you could edit your thread title to show your latest news, I think the J box is done.
Scoot109 wrote:
More Updates:

Checked the fuel tank breather tube and it is in place. Pretty sure at this point it's just bad fuel tap.
...
Two things to look for here.

If the rubber disk is leaky, You can replace that without pulling the tap and it's only a buck ten. http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Fuel-Taps-and-Parts/13836 . Lube it good when you replace it & make sure the mating rotating aluminum disk is clean & smooth. If it has the curved spring type retainer, just tighten the screws a little past where it doesn't leak - if you bottom them out, you'll have fun turning your tap.

You may have a cracked vent tube if somebody twisted it aside trying to get a plumbers wrench in there. The brass tube is brittle and I just saw this for the second time on this one from a smallframe when we pulled the tap to replace it. The bike acted exactly like yours and a new rubber disk mysteriously didn't help at all. You may or may not be able to see any crack without pulling the tap. Maybe put a plastic tube on the top end , blow hard & look for bubbles?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@scoot109 avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P200E
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1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Ok, so I figured out the issue. The fuel tap attached to my replacement fuel tank from my old bike is different - different settings for off, on, reserve. So no more flooding once I figured that out.

New question/issue:

I replaced my gearbox oil, and I can see it leaking a bit from the filler plug (not the drain plug). I have tightened the screw about as much as I can without over-tightening.

Does this mean I overfilled the gearbox oil? I filled it until it started dribbling back out the fill plug hole, then stopped.

Perhaps I should drain a bit more out?
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Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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@aviator47 avatar
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UTC quote
Did you install a crush washer?
OP
@scoot109 avatar
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Hooked
1980 P200E
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UTC quote
Hmmm....now I don't remember if there was one or not...whatever was there before is there now.

Is it necessary to use a crush washer on the fill hole plug? There is one on the drain hole plug, which I re-used (possibly against better judgement) but there is no leaking from down below. Thanks
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
No need to drain any oil out, it's not leaking from being overfilled. There's a little copper gasket that goes on the olio filler screw to prevent drippage. It may be missing or mangled.
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