today i ..... bollox 2.1
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:07 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
and that's on dirt, in road racing the 125s are more like 54hp
That didn't help...
setting realistic goals can help. we don't have power valves, the studs get in the way of ideal ports, have to make due with air cooling, and we don't want to be changing out the piston after each ride, so 400hp/L is out. I bet 300 could be done with water cooling and all the tricks.

But being realistic, 100hp/L can be had with old school calculations on graph paper, and/or careful selection of components that work well together.

on my lambretta build I'm aiming for 150hp/L (~26HP from 175cc) at 8000 rpm. First time using EndMod 2T and getting all the measurements right has been a bit of a learning curve, and the simulations are up to ~25hp so far. finally feels like a science (with a bit of art).

speaking of realistic goals:
https://www.scootering.com/scootering-classics-the-hard-truth-lambretta-and-vespa-service-schedules-and-component-life-expectancy/
Thinking of this in terms of power density is a great approach. I'd never thought of it that way before, but it makes perfect sense. When I look at it that way, I feel a lot better. With my best builds, I'm now getting about 26-28HP from a 187cc motor, which I know is pretty much top of the heap for these motors. I forget about all the engineering and technology we don't get to take advantage of. I also realize that smallframe motors have more room for improvement, which we see with the Germans building crazy-fast smallie motors.

The reduced lifespan of a hot motor is something that I fully expect. I get about 12-18 months out of a tuned motor if I'm lucky. In this case, the failure was just a little more dramatic than I was expecting.

For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
It's EngMod2T (Oops typo) - https://vannik.co.za/EngMod2T.htm
$400 US so not to be sneezed at!

Chandlerman, have you seen this guy's work? Quite interesting - in regard to max power from the 150 case motors. Especially the case work on the LML. https://www.facebook.com/Stratocaster99/
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7445
Location: San Francisco
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:22 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
https://vannik.co.za/index.htm
it's not inexpensive, but it is the real deal.

happy to run the simulation for you if you do all the measuring.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:33 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
https://vannik.co.za/index.htm
it's not inexpensive, but it is the real deal.

happy to run the simulation for you if you do all the measuring.
No doubt there's a fairly long list of stuff that needs to be measured?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:05 pm quote
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1635

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:54 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100
Me likes!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1419
Location: London UK
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:00 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100
This looks great. I think I'll try one before my next 221 MOT. It only just scraped through this year.
Addicted
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Malossi 166 MKIII
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 968
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:32 am quote
Looks cool. I might try it on my p200 project. Not sure how the steering play is adjustable from the looks of it though.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1560
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:38 am quote
Although from last week, here it goes. Found me some nice 80s goodies for my T5 and my blue P. The "unobtanium" Pinasco wheel discs (they're missing their valve stem covers, maybe I'll do something with the 3D printer), a UTAH engine cover (this one goes over the kickstart's axle), a nice T5 Buzzetti kickstart lever and a NOS Piaggio / Elma headlight from 1984 for my blue P...

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Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 224

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 pm quote
My smallframe was taking 20+kicks to start when cold, so today I went after the choke cable.

1. I discovered that it was engaging, but not enough. The inner cable is too long. My solution was to add an additional tophat at the lever end; in effect making the outer longer. This worked, and the choke now fully engages. Starts on second kick!

2. But after a run around the block, it ran like crap and died. I discovered that now the carb end of the choke had pulled loose and the plunger sprung out, effectively leaving the choke wide open. Fixed that after a lot of swearing.

3. Took another short ride and it ran like crap after 10 minutes. The air filter had fallen off. Fixed that.

It's funny. Laugh.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7062
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm quote
It's a Vespa, right?

so needy....
Member
Running 1960 Allstate VNA, Project 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Cambria, CA
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:18 am quote
I loaded up the Allstate for a trip to the DMV.

I might be legally allowed to go slow on public roads. Finally.

AEABFA1C-1859-464A-969A-C5BB50161104.jpeg

Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 535
Location: California
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:23 am quote
wow great shot FNG!
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1139
Location: UK (South East)
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:56 am quote
+1 love a bit of Vespa art, especially with the ocean beyond
Member
Running 1960 Allstate VNA, Project 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Cambria, CA
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 pm quote
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1224
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:13 pm quote
FNG wrote:
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
This works very well!: How to Guide- Apply for a Vermont plate
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7445
Location: San Francisco
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:43 pm quote
FNG wrote:
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
is that title from California or another state? The DMV can be a difficult, but persistence can pay off.
Member
Running 1960 Allstate VNA, Project 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Cambria, CA
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:07 am quote
This works very well!: How to Guide- Apply for a Vermont plate[/quote]


I have been looking at that.
It might be the way I go with the VNB project.

For the Allstate I'm going to continue bash my head against the brick wall that is the CA DMV.
At least for a little while.
Member
Running 1960 Allstate VNA, Project 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 49
Location: Cambria, CA
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:09 am quote
is that title from California or another state? The DMV can be a difficult, but persistence can pay off.[/quote]

The title card is from TN.
I'm in CA
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5456
Location: Indo
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:28 pm quote
put some make up on the vespa

paint it black.jpeg
i know i use toothbrush again

let the nature heat it up.jpeg
since its summer no thief dare to go out in hot day :lol:

black pipe.jpeg
look good on a hammering pipe ;P

atleast they look clean a bit.jpeg
make Bitsa and Vader proud

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2153
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:06 am quote
I put the motor back together in the Sprint. Bearings & seals, the new crank & piston, new 3rd & 4th gears. I wish I'd replaced the entire stack, because while 1st and second are worn, they're not jumping out of gear.

It took me a lot longer than I was expecting, almost five hours, because every single task seemed to take longer than it should have, either because I couldn't find a tool in the mess that I call a garage or simple things just took longer, like fitting the cylinder back over the piston & rings or re-installing the exhaust.

Port timings are at 175/125, which I'm down. I didn't have time to check squish, but since nothing "should" have changed measurement-wise, I'll let that go until I get a new spark plug so I can have a fresh one in there.

Still, it's a first kick starter again and running smoothly thus far. It still needs the final once-over, tuning check, etc., and I'll call it good-to-go.
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