today i ..... bollox 2.1
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7101
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:07 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
and that's on dirt, in road racing the 125s are more like 54hp
That didn't help...
setting realistic goals can help. we don't have power valves, the studs get in the way of ideal ports, have to make due with air cooling, and we don't want to be changing out the piston after each ride, so 400hp/L is out. I bet 300 could be done with water cooling and all the tricks.

But being realistic, 100hp/L can be had with old school calculations on graph paper, and/or careful selection of components that work well together.

on my lambretta build I'm aiming for 150hp/L (~26HP from 175cc) at 8000 rpm. First time using EndMod 2T and getting all the measurements right has been a bit of a learning curve, and the simulations are up to ~25hp so far. finally feels like a science (with a bit of art).

speaking of realistic goals:
https://www.scootering.com/scootering-classics-the-hard-truth-lambretta-and-vespa-service-schedules-and-component-life-expectancy/
Thinking of this in terms of power density is a great approach. I'd never thought of it that way before, but it makes perfect sense. When I look at it that way, I feel a lot better. With my best builds, I'm now getting about 26-28HP from a 187cc motor, which I know is pretty much top of the heap for these motors. I forget about all the engineering and technology we don't get to take advantage of. I also realize that smallframe motors have more room for improvement, which we see with the Germans building crazy-fast smallie motors.

The reduced lifespan of a hot motor is something that I fully expect. I get about 12-18 months out of a tuned motor if I'm lucky. In this case, the failure was just a little more dramatic than I was expecting.

For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
It's EngMod2T (Oops typo) - https://vannik.co.za/EngMod2T.htm
$400 US so not to be sneezed at!

Chandlerman, have you seen this guy's work? Quite interesting - in regard to max power from the 150 case motors. Especially the case work on the LML. https://www.facebook.com/Stratocaster99/
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7471
Location: San Francisco
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:22 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
https://vannik.co.za/index.htm
it's not inexpensive, but it is the real deal.

happy to run the simulation for you if you do all the measuring.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7101
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:33 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
For modeling, do you have a link to information about Endmod? That sounds pretty interesting, but a quick google didn't point it out, only lots of other stuff that was not a motor design & simulation tool.
https://vannik.co.za/index.htm
it's not inexpensive, but it is the real deal.

happy to run the simulation for you if you do all the measuring.
No doubt there's a fairly long list of stuff that needs to be measured?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7101
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:05 pm quote
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1827

Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:54 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100
Me likes!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1558
Location: London UK
Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:00 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
I just found this on Instagram (thanks Swiss1939), didn't know they existed. Seems like a good thing.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90115100
This looks great. I think I'll try one before my next 221 MOT. It only just scraped through this year.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1131
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:32 am quote
Looks cool. I might try it on my p200 project. Not sure how the steering play is adjustable from the looks of it though.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1619
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:38 am quote
Although from last week, here it goes. Found me some nice 80s goodies for my T5 and my blue P. The "unobtanium" Pinasco wheel discs (they're missing their valve stem covers, maybe I'll do something with the 3D printer), a UTAH engine cover (this one goes over the kickstart's axle), a nice T5 Buzzetti kickstart lever and a NOS Piaggio / Elma headlight from 1984 for my blue P...

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Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 234

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 pm quote
My smallframe was taking 20+kicks to start when cold, so today I went after the choke cable.

1. I discovered that it was engaging, but not enough. The inner cable is too long. My solution was to add an additional tophat at the lever end; in effect making the outer longer. This worked, and the choke now fully engages. Starts on second kick!

2. But after a run around the block, it ran like crap and died. I discovered that now the carb end of the choke had pulled loose and the plunger sprung out, effectively leaving the choke wide open. Fixed that after a lot of swearing.

3. Took another short ride and it ran like crap after 10 minutes. The air filter had fallen off. Fixed that.

It's funny. Laugh.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7345
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm quote
It's a Vespa, right?

so needy....
Enthusiast
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 83
Location: Cambria, CA
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:18 am quote
I loaded up the Allstate for a trip to the DMV.

I might be legally allowed to go slow on public roads. Finally.

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Addicted
Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 633
Location: California
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:23 am quote
wow great shot FNG!
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1217
Location: UK (South East)
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:56 am quote
+1 love a bit of Vespa art, especially with the ocean beyond
Enthusiast
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 83
Location: Cambria, CA
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 pm quote
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1316
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:13 pm quote
FNG wrote:
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
This works very well!: How to Guide- Apply for a Vermont plate
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7471
Location: San Francisco
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:43 pm quote
FNG wrote:
The trip to the DMV was a failure.
Apparently the title that I have from 1960 is just the “owners title card”.
It won’t do even though the DMV has seen it twice already and said it was okay.

It looks like the only miles I’m going to be riding are around my neighborhood.
is that title from California or another state? The DMV can be a difficult, but persistence can pay off.
Enthusiast
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 83
Location: Cambria, CA
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:07 am quote
This works very well!: How to Guide- Apply for a Vermont plate[/quote]


I have been looking at that.
It might be the way I go with the VNB project.

For the Allstate I'm going to continue bash my head against the brick wall that is the CA DMV.
At least for a little while.
Enthusiast
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 83
Location: Cambria, CA
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:09 am quote
is that title from California or another state? The DMV can be a difficult, but persistence can pay off.[/quote]

The title card is from TN.
I'm in CA
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5488
Location: Indo
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:28 pm quote
put some make up on the vespa

paint it black.jpeg
i know i use toothbrush again

let the nature heat it up.jpeg
since its summer no thief dare to go out in hot day :lol:

black pipe.jpeg
look good on a hammering pipe ;P

atleast they look clean a bit.jpeg
make Bitsa and Vader proud

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:06 am quote
I put the motor back together in the Sprint. Bearings & seals, the new crank & piston, new 3rd & 4th gears. I wish I'd replaced the entire stack, because while 1st and second are worn, they're not jumping out of gear.

It took me a lot longer than I was expecting, almost five hours, because every single task seemed to take longer than it should have, either because I couldn't find a tool in the mess that I call a garage or simple things just took longer, like fitting the cylinder back over the piston & rings or re-installing the exhaust.

Port timings are at 175/125, which I'm down. I didn't have time to check squish, but since nothing "should" have changed measurement-wise, I'll let that go until I get a new spark plug so I can have a fresh one in there.

Still, it's a first kick starter again and running smoothly thus far. It still needs the final once-over, tuning check, etc., and I'll call it good-to-go.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1619
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:57 am quote
Got me some new Vespa T-shirts and the NOS 80s Malossi levers I bought on eBay arrived today...

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Sketch by Stavros Kioutsioukis

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Euro Vespa '97 (held in Greece by the Vespa Club Thessaloniki) T-Shirt Re-Release

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Euro Vespa '97 (held in Greece by the Vespa Club Thessaloniki) T-Shirt Re-Release

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"Only Vespa"

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Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:12 pm quote
You can always tell the real Italian stuff by the instructions, which will be so unintelligble that even Google Translate will barf on them and come back with something like, "the dog insert most urgently" on your new ignition system.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7345
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:56 pm quote


The poor doggy!
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1316
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:41 pm quote
I shortened a candle stick to be used as a plant stand. Welding - my wife is so happy.

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Shortened this leg by 14 3/4 inches

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The one I shortened is on the right, now the height between the two other ones.

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7471
Location: San Francisco
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:16 pm quote
while running errands on the rally, the gas station I planned to stop at was no longer there. I'll make it home, sure, no problem...

ran out the first time approaching the top of the second to last hill, weave a bit, crest the hill. coast down to the bottom and stop at the stop sign. kick, fires up and up the hill to the stop light. red with two cars in front of me and on a steep hill. kill the engine and push it to the cross walk. cross as a pedestrian, bump it down the hill and pull up to home with enough to pull into the garage.

Tomorrow I'll siphon some fuel from the MotoBi...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7345
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:22 pm quote
outa gas

I think you just described me last May, but just barely rolling into a gas station, otherwise nearly identical. Small world.

But w/ bonus of first reaching down to switch tap to 'reserve' ALREADY there!

Who else?
Hooked
P200E
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 462
Location: The Town that dreaded Sundown.
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:54 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
put some make up on the vespa
Not only liking the new makeup, I am very impressed with the American flag screw driver?
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:21 am quote
Re: outa gas
V oodoo wrote:

I think you just described me last May, but just barely rolling into a gas station, otherwise nearly identical. Small world.

But w/ bonus of first reaching down to switch tap to 'reserve' ALREADY there!

Who else?
I ran out of gas on my way to catch the train to work on Monday. Luckily, it was at the light with a gas station on the corner, so I just pushed it to the first pump, filled up, and didn't even miss my train.

I've had a couple of instances where I was riding home and stopped on an uphill section before a light that's a block past that same gas station. The uphill is steep enough that it causes the gas to run into the back of the tank, so I get to push the scoot up and through the light in the crosswalk, then give it a minute for the float bowl to re-fill and I can usually get to the gas station.

Along those same lines, I once spent about 20 minutes troubleshooting lack of fuel one time because I'd ridden home, not realizing I was running on fumes, and then when I put the bike up on the center stand, it tilted it back far enough to cause the same problem.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 475
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:45 am quote
koenig blues wrote:
put some make up on the vespa
I'll never get bored looking at that back tyre Brother E. It looks so so good on Pink. Especially on that terrain! How do you rate it for Indo roads and weather? Give us a review of the K58 please =)
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:33 am quote
So Friday afternoon, I was walking up to where I parked the Sprint on my way back from the train to the office. Right as I get close, I hear that unique vehicle-on-vehicle crunching sound and see the person who had parallel-parked in front of me hit the scooter and knock it over.

He gets out, sees me looking at him, and irritatedly (is that a word) asks, "Is that yours?" as if the armored jacket wasn't a dead giveaway. He immediately goes defensive, saying he couldn't see me in his rearview, which might be true with the underbar mirrors, but he'd parked after I did in the morning, so he must've known I was there. He was also holding a bluetooth headset, so I'm assuming he was on his phone.

Anyways, we stand it back up and I look it over. The lefthand cowling already had some scrapes on it, and looks about the same as ever. I didn't see any damage on the righthand side. It was kind've weird. He was simultaneously aggressive, defensive, and also genuinely sorry.

The only real damage was to the lefthand turn signals. The front lens broke into four pieces, but I should be able to superglue them back together. The rear turn signal has both the housing and lens cracked, but it all held together.

I'm going to put it all back together, but I'm contemplating swapping out the signals, because as much as I love them, I don't want to eventually kill them just because other people don't pay attention.

At the end of the day, it's all fine, albeit irritating. My philosophy on these things is, "If you can't stand the idea of something happening to it, shrink wrap it and leave it in the garage."

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Ain't nobody got time for this

Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4887
Location: So Cal
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:43 am quote
Dang it. There are not many of those lenses left in the world. It’s like running over an endangered animal.

That said, I think I have one in my boxes of assorted scooter junk. If I do it’s yours buddy. I’ll pm you.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4045
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:53 pm quote
That sucks, pretty sure I gave all mine away, but I'll look.
Hooked
bv350, Brutale 910
Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 238
Location: LA
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:40 pm quote
let the kiddo, who really wanted to help, do the oil drain bolt, promptly stripping the allen T8 drain bolt on the bv350...

I still love him but... pure bollox.
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:31 pm quote
I super-glued it back together, then backed it up on the inside with some epoxy because there was one chip I couldn't find under the screw hole, so that needed to get built up anyway.

I'm seriously going to find some alternate turn signals, because they're funky-cool, but not something that should live on what's effectively a street-parked daily rider.

In other news, I got the Sprint motor finished up. When I checked the timing it was at 10 degrees BTDC at 6,000 RPM's. It's now set to 17 BTDC @ 6k RPM's. First kick start now, too. I got it into the Stella frame, then got the shift cables hooked up, but needed to replace the clutch cable, which turned into my typical cable swap fiasco. I pulled the new upper into place without issue, but somehow managed to pull it back down out of the headset and now can't get it back in place.

Anyways, solid day in the garage.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4887
Location: So Cal
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:16 pm quote
I’ve got an extra set of bar ends if you want to go Teutonic.
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7471
Location: San Francisco
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:38 pm quote
I think I’ve got some as well that I will not be using. We should get the best one over to https://www.claussstudios.com to have a mold made
Addicted
LXS 150
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 974
Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:09 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
Got me some new Vespa T-shirts and the NOS 80s Malossi levers I bought on eBay arrived today...
That instruction sheet is amazing.
The instructions were printed on a dot-matrix printer, the letterhead/logo was printed, but the diagram was drafted by hand! Then literally cut and pasted for printing.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7345
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:55 pm quote
chandlerman wrote:
...
I'm seriously going to find some alternate turn signals, because they're funky-cool, but not something that should live on what's effectively a street-parked daily rider.
...
Hi quality Japanese same size & very similar, metal except lens? PM shipping info if interested?

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now this cute lil AllState is long gone

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Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:05 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I think I’ve got some as well that I will not be using. We should get the best one over to https://www.claussstudios.com to have a mold made
I was thinking about seeing if one of my 3D Printing buddies would be willing to help me draft one up for 3D printing.

I did a bunch of searching for replacement options last night and didn't really find anything. Pretty much everything on teh Interwebs only works if you can mount them perpendicular to a bar, which is pretty much the opposite of the mounting holes on a Vespa.

V oodoo, I'll shoot you a PM. Even if I don't use them on the Sprint, I think those would look pretty sweet on my GL, once I finally get that project rolling.
Addicted
1967 Granturismo 177, 1979 P200E, 1974 Primavera 125
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 568
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:26 am quote
This was a first
Hated that damn sito anyway.
Was fooling around "off road"


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