Pinasco 213/215
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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:42 pm quote
Hi all. Is anyone running one of these kits?? A friend has it on his PX (bolt on) and now he needs a full engine overhaul. He also has a longstroke serie pro crank he had bought along with a parts bin (we donít know which one and itís timings) which he wants to put in. The kit has the ďGenova 810Ē cylinder head and the weird fully open piston. So, what packers, head, rotary pad opening, timings, etc. do we need for this kit to work well?? He also runs a SI24/24 and a chrome SIP Road 2.0...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:22 am quote
Got any pictures and measurements? Crank is probably for sportier use but if that's what he has it will work.
Round out all the edges on that weird big window piston to have any chance it won't crack.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:52 am quote
Will do, as soon as he brings me the motor and the parts. Since it needs new rings, which are pretty expensive now, I thought that maybe a new GS ďPoliniĒ 69mm piston would be a better choice??
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:09 am quote
How much is just one new piston ring fitted on the old piston. Doesn't really need two.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:29 am quote
Both rings are shot (itís the piston with the top ďLĒ ring). Ring gap on both are about 1mm - 1,2mm. Set of rings cost 50Ä - 60Ä and availability is slim. Pinasco replaced them with the new type rings / piston. So thatís the main reason weíre thinking for a GS piston + it will be more robust...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:58 pm quote
Choices are few. With the L shaped ring you have to buy both. GS is not showing stock for the 69mm piston. If the piston hasn't cracked yet, then new rings are an option.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:03 pm quote
Piston is available at SIP. It will be ordered through a local supplier who works directly with them. I know rings are an option, but I am a bit afraid on the reliability of the piston...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:14 pm quote
You have a link? Can't find it on SIP but that doesn't mean its not there
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Location: UK (South East)
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:59 am quote
You may be worrying too much about the possibility of the Pinasco/Asso piston cracking. Does anyone actually known the fail rate of these pistons vs others? Are they really that bad, cos if they are, I'm also interested in the GS 69mm if it does a good job in a Pinasco setup?
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:30 am quote
Thats a Polossi piston! It should fit. It won't line up properly but I expect it to be close. If you have an old 68.5 Malossi piston around the shop, it will be possible to check the side window alignment before you buy the 69.0mm Polossi one.
If you take the piston out and there is no damage, then as swa45 said I think the new rings on the Pinasco one is the better option. When it does finally break he can buy a complete new kit. Malossi Sport?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:52 pm quote
Tried the Malossi piston and it lines up almost perfectly (it will need a bit of grinding) so while waiting for the GS piston and the packers to arrive, we decided to O-Tune the cylinder and try to get as much as we can from the kit, until my friend can afford a Malossi kit...

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Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:19 pm quote
Now this is interesting MV's first ever Pinossi 225.

With the 60mm longstroke crank this has great potential. Will probably be nearly as quick as a Malossi Sport if the port timing is upped a lot. The early Pinasco kits are almost an ally stock cylinder in terms of port timing.

Have a measure of the ports from the top and we can see how many mm (and it will be many whole mm) it all needs to move by.

This is good experience for you with cutting Nicasil too (You'll be in that T5 172 next). Chamfer all the edges and round corners and it will stay attached.
Addicted
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:01 am quote
oh gosh this is looking good.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:24 am quote
A bit of progress (not perfect yet). My friend also brought me the engine today and tomorrow I'll split it, so as to match the "new" ports to the cases...

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Enthusiast
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 96
Location: 3rd Rock From the Sun
Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:09 pm quote
this is looking good.. ill follow this with interest!!
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:57 pm quote
A bit of progress today. Engine split and porting started. I will also JB Weld the "fake" ports which are useless anyways...

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Honda elite
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
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Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:25 pm quote
This is looking great keep the photos coming!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:07 pm quote
Fine work as usual. Going to need a base packer with that. Easier to grind it all at the same time.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:48 am quote
Cylinder porting and polishing done. Inlet's "drill hole" smoothed out and I'll also match the carb and the "tub" to the inlet. Waiting for the piston, the packers and few bits and pieces. I've also rebuilt his cush drive (4 of the 6 springs were broken). I always use original Piaggio rivets cause the ones that come in the F.A. Italia rebuild kit are crap. A bag of 50 rivets is only 1,90Ä at Piaggio (wholesale price)...

Few photos...

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Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 687
Location: california
Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:13 pm quote
Safis - killer job, killer photos.
Hadn't seen the drill and cut method - maybe this is the norm but it never registered with me if that's the case. Great trick. Thanks for sharing.

Gotta love JB - weld.

Your friends scoot is going to fly. He's not gonna know what hit him.

Fun thread.

-CM
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:58 pm quote
All looking nice

While doing that inlet 10mm could come out of the back.

What is the expected port timing and squish?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:11 pm quote
Thanks guys!

Jack, Iíll not touch the rotary until I measure the crankís timings, since itís probably sportier than we want it to be...
Hooked
1979 P200E
Joined: 01 Jan 2018
Posts: 107
Location: Houston
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:41 am quote
Sorry, novice here; is JB weld really strong enough to be used like this?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:52 am quote
Octobogs wrote:
Sorry, novice here; is JB weld really strong enough to be used like this?
On most occasions, yes. But even if it separates from the cases, on this particular cylinder there's no way for the piece to go anywhere cause it'll be held / blocked by the cylinder's skirt...
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Honda elite
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Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:25 am quote
Looking Grand now I want one for myself!

Can you share more about your JB Weld process, we're interested in dams or fixtures to hold the weld in place you may have created.
Hooked
1979 P200E
Joined: 01 Jan 2018
Posts: 107
Location: Houston
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:30 am quote
Right, good point about the cylinder's skirt. Excellent workmanship, BTW. I'm interested to see how this build goes.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:34 am quote
@hibbert: I just use a center punch and make many small dimples...

GS Piston (beautifully made) and bits and pieces came today. No packers (I had ordered 0,8mm packers for top and bottom but no show). Maybe I should reconsider now. Put in the bearings, clutch seal, crank and piston (chamfered all sharp edges) to measure the timings I get. Without any packers, the piston is at zero deck, just like the stock cylinder with a longstroke crank. Timings following as they are now and how they would look with a 1,5mm packer at the bottom. As for the cylinder head, I'll machine the stock Pinasco to match an MMW head I have on the self...

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No Packer

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Raised Cylinder

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Our trusty, 35 year old, handmade crank puller :)

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Crank in

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GS Piston (made by Meteor)

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Top view

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Matched boost window

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Zero deck

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Flywheel side port

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Clutch side port

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Clutch side. Passes through the port at BDC. Should I grind it??

Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:02 pm quote
Piston does look nice. I would leave that bit on the piston. They are a little thin on stability without the Polossi cuts in the windows.

How did the rotary timing work out?

With the 1.5mm on the base the transfer timing looks a little long but as they are small ports, longer duration will make up for lack of width.
With this though the blowdown is very short. Which means it will be like a diesel car. Feels really quick at mid rpm but nothing there when opened up.
Take the exhaust port up from 174 to 184 and it will be a very solid tourer.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:11 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
How did the rotary timing work out?
Didnít touch it yet. These are the timings I get with the crank he got. If I open it up wonít the inlet duration be even bigger?? Iím thinking on keeping the 0,8mm packers and raise the exhaust port a bit...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:41 pm quote
Is that your rotary inlet measurement, 164 degrees total? Needs to be more than that. Is nearly stock.

Even with no packer at all, the blowdown is still be too short. Transfers will be ok there but won't make the best of all that work you've done. And it will go very average.

My best suggestion for the easiest job. is a 1.0mm packer. Skim the head flat and that will give a ~1.0mm squish. Exhaust port is going to have to move whatever you do. With the 1.0mm packer the exhaust needs to go up 2.5mm to 34.5mm.

Thought it would be a lot. Great Nicasil Dremel practice. Lots of room to make mistakes then clean it up in 2.5mm. As its not really for speed just focus on the centre 20mm of the exhaust port and blend the sides down.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:50 pm quote
Exactly, 164į total. So, crank is probably a stockish 60mm?? Should I go for the 10mm on the rotary as you mentioned before?? 1mm packer it is then...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:47 am quote
Thought the crank was going to be more. 180 will be a good amount. If you take a few mm out the front and 15mm out the back. It will be about 56/125 and that will go well.

This 24/24 carb. No filter/vortex. Box exhaust?
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:36 am quote
Jack, wonít 15mm be too much for a future Malossi Sport?? Carb is with original filter (drilled heart) and a chromed SIP Road 2.0 which might be changed cause it started falling apart from the inside...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:00 am quote
Is almost a 1mm per degree. 164 + 15 is 179. Few extra out the front maybe 181 or slightly more, total. Just right for a tourer. Its basically a stock crank if its 164 degrees. They are normally about 160 in a P200.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:53 am quote
I assume it would be the same thing, letís say by cutting 10mm of the crank and opening the rotary accordingly?? I donít want to open it too much because itís a bit rough at the back...
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:21 pm quote
Its the same thing but the crank needs to be cut at the big end bearing. Really hard to do well but if anyone can, you can.

I see what you mean about the rough pad from the picture. Take 10mm out the back, a few out the front and maybe some off the big end. If it ends up at 175į it will still go fine.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:18 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
Its the same thing but the crank needs to be cut at the big end bearing. Really hard to do well but if anyone can, you can.
I assume, you mean where the "opening" starts (green arrow) and not where it ends (red arrow)...

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Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1555
Location: London UK
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:35 pm quote
Yes the green arrow. You might get a few degrees out of it there but its a lot of effort for not much.
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1617
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:53 pm quote
Productive day, today. Machined the head, the clutch cover and 2 levers (double o-ring), cut the crank, raised the exhaust port, opened up the rotary and matched the carb and the carb box to the inlet. New timings with the 0,8mm packer. 1mm packers were not available and because we are in a hurry for a planned roadtrip, we'll have to do with this one. Also, since the chromed SIP is dead, we decided on the new FACO Power BOX (already tried by 3 friends and my supplier). They are very pleased and they also got more top speed that the Road 2.0 they had before. Only downside is that it's more noisy, but so is the chromed Road 2.0 he has...

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