London bike theft protest
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Member
vespa GTS super sport
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Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:15 pm quote
There is a Facebook page called The London bike theft protest. The aim is to ride from the ace cafe to Scotland Yard to draw some attention to the thefts jackings/attempted jackings of all things two wheeled. The page has been made public so you should be able to search it on FB and join. Let's all make a stand together… whatever you ride.
I'm not technical enough to share a link so if anyone could do it on my behalf I would be most grateful. Thanks in advance
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:26 pm quote

https://www.facebook.com/groups/561036610763324
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vespa GTS super sport
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Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:32 pm quote
Thanks znomit 😎
Ossessionato
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Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:59 pm quote
I live a long way away, but joined for support. I have relatives living in London and share your frustruation.
Gobshite Shiva
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Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:01 am quote
just joined. cheers for the link. I'll be protesting on foot as I'm too paranoid to bring my bike downtown any more
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Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:18 am quote
I don't do FB can someone please post the details once they are confirmed
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Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:21 am quote
Gedmunds wrote:
I don't do FB can someone please post the details once they are confirmed
Done. Check your Whatsapp
Gobshite Shiva
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Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:53 am quote
they haven't got an actual date for the protest yet - still trying to decide whether it should be a ride or a march.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:49 pm quote
genie wrote:
they haven't got an actual date for the protest yet - still trying to decide whether it should be a ride or a march.
I saw that but I AM standing with you guys.
Ossessionato
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:26 am quote
[quote="genie"]just joined. cheers for the link. I'll be protesting on foot as I'm too paranoid to bring my bike downtown any more [/quote

My firm belief is that you're safe(r) in town. I leave mine parked in a bike bay in Westminster overnight sometimes, and I'm quite happy to do that.

I would be less happy to have to do that outside my home, 4 or 5 miles away.
Hooked
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Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:26 pm quote
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. This police officer is doing his job and look at the support the national newspaper is giving...... Um none. This is why there are so many scooter thefts in London. No support from anyone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3798524/New-video-appears-officer-filmed-smashing-car-windscreen-pulling-SECOND-black-man-no-reason.html?ito=email_share_mobile-top
Ossessionato
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Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:49 pm quote
tom jones wrote:
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. This police officer is doing his job and look at the support the national newspaper is giving...... Um none. This is why there are so many scooter thefts in London. No support from anyone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3798524/New-video-appears-officer-filmed-smashing-car-windscreen-pulling-SECOND-black-man-no-reason.html?ito=email_share_mobile-top
What part of 'his job' is harassing innocent people? He is a disgrace. There is a lot of support for the police and for law and order. This joker deserves all that the media are throwing at him.

Thankfully this so called officer is not representative of the many brave men and women that police our streets.
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Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:55 pm quote
Pause
Wouldn't be ironic if while everyone was protesting the thieves stole all the scooters.

A ride would be the sensible choice.

Bill xxx
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:05 am quote
Re: Pause
Bill Dog wrote:
Wouldn't be ironic if while everyone was protesting the thieves stole all the scooters.

A ride would be the sensible choice.

Bill xxx
Its a cunning plan to get all the scooters in one swoop.
Mwahahaha
Gobshite Shiva
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Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:59 am quote
late to the game
looks like MAG has finally woken up ... (some of you will recall my multiple emails to them a year or so back, none of which they even acknowledged)...

just got this via email:
MAG wrote:
The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG), the UK’s leading voice for riders’ rights, is increasing its intervention in the worsening bike theft epidemic in the country’s capital, following the death of rider Ricky Hayden.


Tim Fawthrop, MAG’s London Representative, is like most London motorcyclists getting increasingly frustrated with the plight of the city’s riders, who are under increasing threat from bike thieves who present a violent threat to the capital’s 200,000+ riders. Motorcyclist Mr Hayden was senselessly murdered on Tuesday, 13th September 2016, after he and his father were stabbed by thieves who were attempting to steal his moped from outside his home in Chadwell Heath, East London.


Tim Fawthrop says “the situation has got completely out of hand. Mr Hayden’s murder is an extreme and unforgivable example of the risks riders now face. The police seem ill equipped to assist, and the criminals know it. MAG is now working with riders in the city to put together some responses to this issue. We want to work with the police, councils and governing bodies to prevent further thefts and harm to riders.”

MAG has been working with the UK’s Motorcycle Crime Reduction Group to find lasting solutions to thefts and robberies which have seen riders being physically assaulted by these thieves. “We’re going to organise a series of awareness raising events, which we hope will make Sadiq Khan the Mayor of London, the metropolitan police, the Greater London Authority and the politicians realise how serious this has become and devote more resources to this issue. Mr Hayden’s death is the latest example of how the robberies have escalated and it seems almost inevitable that this might occur. We can’t wait any longer - we need riders and the authorities working together to prevent further harm.”’

MAG is offering condolences and support to Ricky Hayden's family.
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Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:57 pm quote
Every time I see the terms "working with, working closely with or raising awareness" my mind reads them as "doing sweet FA but this is what the PR people told us to say".

Cheers for the effort you are making, hopefully something will come of it.
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:46 pm quote
ashbrook wrote:
What part of 'his job' is harassing innocent people? He is a disgrace. There is a lot of support for the police and for law and order. This joker deserves all that the media are throwing at him.
Would you say the same if it was your scooter being wheeled away?
I guess there are also various shades of innocent - this guy did two years in prison for carrying a weapon.
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:59 am quote
robinm wrote:
ashbrook wrote:
What part of 'his job' is harassing innocent people? He is a disgrace. There is a lot of support for the police and for law and order. This joker deserves all that the media are throwing at him.
Would you say the same if it was your scooter being wheeled away?
I guess there are also various shades of innocent - this guy did two years in prison for carrying a weapon.
But the current incident is what is being discussed or are we all guilty due to our pasts? I would be equally outraged if I was accused of stealing a scooter but I would hope to be a bit more restrained with my responses.

What shade are you implying?
He is innocent of the crime that he was challenged on. It's really quite straightforward
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:24 pm quote
ashbrook wrote:
But the current incident is what is being discussed or are we all guilty due to our pasts? I would be equally outraged if I was accused of stealing a scooter but I would hope to be a bit more restrained with my responses.

What shade are you implying?
He is innocent of the crime that he was challenged on. It's really quite straightforward
I've been stopped a few times by the police while riding through London - usually for being a little "too aggressive" through traffic, once for riding along the pavement when trees had been blown across the road and once because I matched the description of a rider who'd taken a shot at some visiting politician in a limo.

I've always stopped, turned off the bike, removed my helmet and listened carefully to what they've had to say. I know they're doing they're job. In return I've always been asked to ride a little more carefully. I've no doubt if I refused to comply, started mouthing off and filming them on my phone then I'd end up in hand cuffs too.

Sadly these little videos are always very one sided - the police aren't allowed to say why they stopped him or what happened when they did. In the other video where the police break the window you'll see that a police car has forced the car to stop in what appears to have been a chase, the driver won't get out the car when asked to and instead starts filming the policeman trying to make a mockery of him (I'd be interested to know how that would be handled in the states). Obviously though, if you feel these videos are enough for you to make up your mind then that's up to you.

Shades of innocence: I thought it was a pretty standard phrase?
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:22 pm quote
ashbrook wrote:
...the current incident is what is being discussed or are we all guilty due to our pasts? I would be equally outraged if I was accused of stealing a scooter but I would hope to be a bit more restrained with my responses. He is innocent of the crime that he was challenged on. It's really quite straightforward
Ash - I want to put in my 2 cents because I believe many people likely share your view. I read the article and had a very opposite reaction than you which surprised me.

Why is the officer a "disgrace"? Why is the officer a "joker"? If the current incident is what we're discussing then the officer's past incidents shouldn't be an issue, or is he automatically guilty because of his past? The fact he's on the street as an officer still doing his job means he SHOULD be there since he's not presently being disciplined. Meaning his past is clean until proven otherwise. His actions are under investigation per routine so maybe he will be proven unworthy of the shield, BUT not yet. So why is he a disgrace & a joker? There's absolutely nothing in that one minute convoluted video leading me to believe he's either of those things. Maybe he is but I'm not seeing it. He saw something/someone which made him curious/suspicious and decided to do his job and start asking questions. He almost immediately called for backup. You don't call for a backup witness when you're trying to be a disgrace & a joker. You call for backup to ensure everything goes correctly in the stop.

The officer had a very confrontational incident in his past which was apparently not deemed detrimental to the continuation of his duties as an officer of the law. The "victim" here is a convicted felon who served time in prison for a weapons charge (which he tries to minimize as a "silly thing"...yeah, silly thing those felony weapons charges are huh?). This is the same person who magnanimously claims the "nature of living in London...[is] looking out for one another..." but maybe we should be watching out for him & his weapon. Where are the Londoners who witnessed this "humiliation"? Why has no one else backed his story other than Temi Mwale who wasn't there and is only using this incident to throw the race card? It's interesting Mwale admits "Feeling like you are racially discriminated against every day affects your mental health."

I think the real question is - who deserves the benefit of the doubt here?

You'd be "outraged" if you were the one pulled over?? The cop saw a potential issue, stopped someone for questioning, called backup, dealt with a confrontational individual and the entire process was cleared up in 25 minutes with everyone going home. - I see no reason for anyone to have a problem with any of this. - It's really quite straightforward.
robinm wrote:
I've always stopped, turned off the bike, removed my helmet and listened carefully to what they've had to say. I know they're doing they're job. I've no doubt if I refused to comply, started mouthing off and filming them on my phone then I'd end up in hand cuffs too.

Sadly these little videos are always very one sided - the police aren't allowed to say why they stopped him or what happened when they did. In the other video where the police break the window you'll see that a police car has forced the car to stop in what appears to have been a chase, the driver won't get out the car when asked to and instead starts filming the policeman trying to make a mockery of him.
Those who give the cop the benefit of the doubt already realize both incidents may be far more complicated than the piecemeal story the sensationalist media is feeding us. We'll wait & see what happens, it's entirely possible the officer may have grossly abused his power. With both incidents occurring in front of other officers & witnesses, the whole truth should be swift in coming.

I'll bet the officer gets fired regardless of his actions. The fact he's been involved in 2 sensationalized incidents provides the police department an opportunity to gain public favor if they fire him. They can sacrifice him to the masses in order to pacify a public which will never really be pacified.
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Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:53 am quote
LC353
It's not the officer's past that I was referring to it was the man he stopped. I don't believe that if you have been punished for a crime you should forever be harassed. He had done his time and is now an innocent man.
I think our police and other public figures should be accountable and cameras help to give evidence of their behaviour.
Filming an officer in a public place is not against the law over here. i'm not sure if its the same in the US.
I accept some people behave with utter disrespect towards the authorities but in some cases this is because they feel the authorities do not treat them with respect themselves.
I am glad that the tolerant nature of the lawgivers over here allows decent people to continue being decent but I am as concerned as anyone else about them not having enough power to deal with toerags.
Its when that power is abused that I protest.
One thing good that comes out of all this is that we can discuss these matters openly and without descending into animosity ourselves and for that I thank you all.

robinm
I am familiar with the phrase i just don't agree that there are any shades in this case.
Innocent is innocent is innocent. He was innocent.
You think he was less innocent because he had served time for a previous crime?
Just because a phrase is standard doesn't mean it is always applicable.
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Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:01 pm quote
ashbrook wrote:
robinm
I am familiar with the phrase i just don't agree that there are any shades in this case.
Innocent is innocent is innocent. He was innocent.
You think he was less innocent because he had served time for a previous crime?
Just because a phrase is standard doesn't mean it is always applicable.
We all agree that he was innocent of the crime he was stopped for. The question we're asking is whether it was right for the police to stop and question a guy for pushing a scooter along the pavement. Keep in mind that 30 GTS's get stolen a week here in London. The police have to make a judgement call and, if the situation looks suspicious, they'll stop you. If you look like a yuppie who has run out of fuel then chances are they'll just laugh as they drive past but if you dress like a gang member then chances are they'll stop and check. That's the shades of innocence I was referring to. If you then start mouthing off, not answering their questions, playing the race card while trying to create a youtube video then you'll end up in cuffs.
Molto Verboso
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Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:42 pm quote
Tough Situation in London
The mayor of New York, Rudy Guiliani, introduced an aggressive
stop and search policy that was clearly "Racial Profiling". Even
consider unconstitutional. It took crime off the streets and actually
reduced the crime death rate of young black youth by 2000.

Hopefully this is not to political a discussion on ModernVespa.
Tough situation with scooter theft. I have faith and trust the
police - they have a hard job.

My opinion only, it seems in our attempt to be fair and balanced
to every citizen, we are allowing the bad guys to get the upper
hand.

Good luck in London.

Bob Copeland
Across the Pond
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Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:53 pm quote
I've read all the posts since my last input and I am going to have to honest and upfront here.
You may wonder why I am so pro - police and in other posts I have made it quite clear I dislike scum. The simple reason, I was a cop for a long time and guess where? .......London.
I have witnessed first hand the misery scum cause. Yes, I used to stop scooter riders,motorcycles and cars alike. My ultimate reason for this is to establish if the vehicle that they are in control of is theirs. Small talk re splitting lanes, riding on pavements etc is just a good excuse to stop and question people when the ultimate reason for being stopped it for the officer to get up close and personal to see of the vehicle is stolen i.e. smashed locks etc or maybe even drink driving. In fact a whole multitude of things. Ask me how many scum I've arrested for being in control of a stolen vehicle. Too many to count. I've yet to see a reformed scum bag. Unfortunately the peace loving community out there think you can change people. Never seen it personally and yes, I have smashed car windows to get scum out of their vehicles for fear of my safety. Any delaying tactics means danger. Reaching for a weapon to hurt you or other members of the public. Yes, I've opened a police car door whilst moving(and as a passenger) onto scum making off on a bike with successful results. Harsh, yes but when a grown man has made off on a bike after having molested a minor, it doesn't seem too bad does it? On weekends I've done operations and deliberately targeted minorities of the communities (shock, horror) and have had to remove them from that vehicle with a gun and guess how many had weapons from guns to knives etc have I recovered?... again, too many to mention. So, in summary, there is always two sides to a story and what you see on youtube , the news etc, is a carefully edited incident which makes good news. If it didn't then these newspapers wouldn't sell and scum wouldn't get support from the peace loving community into believing all coppers are b....... when in reality most, are hard working people who are part of the same community and really do want to make a difference.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:32 am quote
robinm wrote:
We all agree that he was innocent of the crime he was stopped for. The question we're asking is whether it was right for the police to stop and question a guy for pushing a scooter along the pavement. Keep in mind that 30 GTS's get stolen a week here in London. The police have to make a judgement call and, if the situation looks suspicious, they'll stop you. If you look like a yuppie who has run out of fuel then chances are they'll just laugh as they drive past but if you dress like a gang member then chances are they'll stop and check. That's the shades of innocence I was referring to. If you then start mouthing off, not answering their questions, playing the race card while trying to create a youtube video then you'll end up in cuffs.
I have never said that it was wrong to stop and question someone pushing a scooter. I would expect that to happen in all cases and it doesn't happen enough in my opinion. Many officers, including the ones I work with on a daily basis I might add, are very skilled at doing this. Others are not so adept and it is these few that create the bad press.
A properly conducted stop and search is a joy to behold and improves relationships between the police and the community in many ways. A bad one does the exact opposite.
The good officers are totally comfortable to be filmed because they are doing their jobs correctly.
When an officer reacts negatively to the camera it may be because they are not doing their job correctly and do not want that recorded.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:40 am quote
I'd agree with everything you say there.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:28 am quote
I suspect London, like NYC police continually are arresting criminals, who are then promptly released. Most have lengthy records and should have been locked up. Dangerous mental patients are free to roam, it is their "right" but repeatedly hurt the innocent and others alike. Politicians talk around these problems and offer sympathy for the victims. The police are required to babysit these people in repeated dangerous confrontations. When someone gets hurt, there comes every news outlet to condemn or taint the police that, horror of horrors, they had to get physical with someone and it didn't end well. The politicians pass more laws which only affect the law abiding. Hand in hand, politicians and bias news. Police painted as itching to harm someone.
"Every law passed is another freedom lost"
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:13 am quote
Support Law Enforcement not the Bad Guys, Save the Scooters
Tom Jones

Spot on. The targeted theft of Vespas in London may be
symptomatic of the police being hand cuffed by political
correctness. There is a major debate, on just this topic,
on this side of the Pond.

Good luck - You Brits are really smart, perhaps to civilized.
It may be time to look the other way and let your police
bust some knuckles. Perhaps do this until the pendulum
swings back to Law and Order and you can park a Vespa
in London with out it being stolen.

SAVE A VESPA - BEFRIEND THE POLICE

Bob Copeland
Minnesota
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:36 am quote
It worries me that the only offered solution to all of this is an escalation in rough housing. Good, honest police work whilst not exactly sensational, can produce results and reduce crime.
Feedback from the professionals makes me fear that our politicians are not funding our public services to the level that any of us can adequately do their respective jobs.
It scares me that we could ever reach the point where all our officers are armed with lethal weapons especially as the training budget would probably be insufficient.
This could lead to many innocent lives being lost. For me that is too high a price to pay.
I suppose I'd rather fear my scooter might be stolen than fear that my life might be taken.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:25 am quote
Too bad police spend more time revenue raising for the state
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:34 am quote
Ati wrote:
Too bad police spend more time revenue raising for the state
I'm not sure that is the case. You mean raising revenue by fining people for minor crimes? I'm not sure what you mean by that Ati?
I think the police here are overwhelmed and underfunded and most of them do a fine job in the circumstances. Again the lawmakers need to take a long hard look at what is happening and act intelligently for a change.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:33 am quote
ashbrook wrote:
Ati wrote:
Too bad police spend more time revenue raising for the state
I'm not sure that is the case. You mean raising revenue by fining people for minor crimes? I'm not sure what you mean by that Ati?
I think the police here are overwhelmed and underfunded and most of them do a fine job in the circumstances. Again the lawmakers need to take a long hard look at what is happening and act intelligently for a change.
The police have quotas to collect infringement revenue, and that's how they waste the better part of their policing resources, going after non-crimes.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:07 am quote
Re: Support Law Enforcement not the Bad Guys, Save the Scoot
Bob Copeland wrote:
Tom Jones

Spot on. The targeted theft of Vespas in London may be
symptomatic of the police being hand cuffed by political
correctness. There is a major debate, on just this topic,
on this side of the Pond.

Good luck - You Brits are really smart, perhaps to civilized.
It may be time to look the other way and let your police
bust some knuckles. Perhaps do this until the pendulum
swings back to Law and Order and you can park a Vespa
in London with out it being stolen.

SAVE A VESPA - BEFRIEND THE POLICE

Bob Copeland
Minnesota
Well written Bob. So true.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:48 am quote
The laws are on the books, the time to be served for various crimes also. Misdemeanors up to a year, felonies a year or more. If they would go "by the book" quality of life would be what it should be.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:47 am quote
Ati wrote:
The police have quotas to collect infringement revenue, and that's how they waste the better part of their policing resources, going after non-crimes.
Sorry for seeming dense here but what specific examples of non-crimes are you referring to? This would make things even worse than they appear.
Am I even close to assuming that these decisions are done way beyond the pay scale of the average officer on the street?
These are the officers that I get most of my info from and so my viewpoint could be skewed in their favour.
I'm willing to learn more about this......
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:00 am quote
Ati wrote:
ashbrook wrote:
Ati wrote:
Too bad police spend more time revenue raising for the state
I'm not sure that is the case. You mean raising revenue by fining people for minor crimes? I'm not sure what you mean by that Ati?
I think the police here are overwhelmed and underfunded and most of them do a fine job in the circumstances. Again the lawmakers need to take a long hard look at what is happening and act intelligently for a change.
The police have quotas to collect infringement revenue, and that's how they waste the better part of their policing resources, going after non-crimes.
Absolute cobblers.
Molto Verboso
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:04 am quote
Ati and Ashbrook - Great informed Dialogue
For Profit Policing:

I suspect this does distract police from concentrating more time
and resources on real crime (Scooter Theft). This was proven to
be the case in the USA. A Federal Investigation of the Ferguson
Missouri Police Dept ( After Shooting/Riots) revealed a clear policy
to directly raise revenue through traffic violation stops.

Escalation of rough housing:

The New York Stop and Search practice, was target much more
at high crime neighborhood people on the street. They used
ordinances against "spiting in the street", "Jay Walking" not
crossing the street at the prescribed corner cross walks. IT WORKED.

I think local UK Law Enforcement may know who the suspected
scooter thieves are. Time to stretch their civil rights, get in their
face, flood their world with police. Detain, arrest, make their lives
miserable.

Okay, not politically correct. I suspect you think Yanks are
just a bunch of Cowboys. I say Yea-Hah, round up those scooter
rogues.

Good luck in the UK! I has affection for every scooter not stolen.

Bob Copeland
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:32 am quote
Re: Ati and Ashbrook - Great informed Dialogue
Bob Copeland wrote:
For Profit Policing:

I suspect this does distract police from concentrating more time
and resources on real crime (Scooter Theft). This was proven to
be the case in the USA. A Federal Investigation of the Ferguson
Missouri Police Dept ( After Shooting/Riots) revealed a clear policy
to directly raise revenue through traffic violation stops.

Escalation of rough housing:

The New York Stop and Search practice, was target much more
at high crime neighborhood people on the street. They used
ordinances against "spiting in the street", "Jay Walking" not
crossing the street at the prescribed corner cross walks. IT WORKED.

I think local UK Law Enforcement may know who the suspected
scooter thieves are. Time to stretch their civil rights, get in their
face, flood their world with police. Detain, arrest, make their lives
miserable.

Okay, not politically correct. I suspect you think Yanks are
just a bunch of Cowboys. I say Yea-Hah, round up those scooter
rogues.

Good luck in the UK! I has affection for every scooter not stolen.

Bob Copeland
I agree great debate!
I see regular (bi-monthly?) police stops checking insurance and motor tax but I think these are justified and helps keep the unlawful uninsured drivers and riders off the street.
This may raise revenue but it is also a worthwhile use of police time and it doesn't seem to be constant.
I'm not sure what the equivalent of jaywalking would be here, probably dropping litter, but I can't see cracking down on that in 'high crime areas' making any inroads at all into scooter theft.

It would be nice to see more officers on the street though...
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:00 pm quote
It doesn't matter how many police are on the street if they are now too intimidated by public perception to stop previous target groups, all a bike thief has to do these days is go Al Jolson and he's halved his chances of being stopped.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:50 pm quote
ashbrook
kyvelis wrote:
It doesn't matter how many police are on the street if they are now too intimidated by public perception to stop previous target groups, all a bike thief has to do these days is go Al Jolson and he's halved his chances of being stopped.
You mean tripled his chances of bring stopped in London at least.
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