Has anyone seen/had problems with rust at the frame seam?
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LX150
Joined: 13 Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Location: San Francisco
Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:22 pm quote
Newbie here, my first post.

So in November 2016 I took my LX150 in for a new back tire. I loaded my Vespa on my truck to also take in my truck for an oil change at my favorite mechanic Kevin at Brannon Auto works in San Francisco. Kevin shares a garage with Baylon who owns Auto Body Garage and I asked Baylon for an estimate to fix my rust issue. He took one look and said it would be cost prohibitive to fix because the rust is in the frame of the Vespa and spreads like a cancer. He had never seen rust like that on a late model vehicle (2011 Vespa). That was not good news to hear.

So I took it to San Francisco Scooter Centre where I had planned to have the tire replaced and Barry and his mechanic both said that they had never seen rust like that and agreed that my Vespa would have to be totaled. They think the frame missed a step in the manufacturing of the Vespa.

So I took my Vespa to Vespa SF where I bought it in 2011 (and normally take for service but they had a week wait). Awesome Pete (who sold me the Vespa in 2011 used (the original buyer opted for a 300 after a few months) and the mechanic there had never seen rust on the frame either.

Has anyone seen/had problems with rust at the frame seam?

Thanks!

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Front left side

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Front right side

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Full side

Hooked
946, Sprint 150, PX 150.
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 407

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:59 pm quote
I had the exact same problem in the same spot.
Happened in less than 18 months on the road and Vespa actually repaired it for me under warranty.
Once it was repaired I sold it.
It also started to rust on the rear seam just under the tail light.
Molto Verboso
2006 Vespa GTS250ie
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1501
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:42 pm quote
I had some there though not as bad as yours on my 2006 GTS. And that was with many years of salty winter riding.

Just had mine sandblasted and repainted from the seam and down underneath. Looks brand new. Cost $318.00.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150 and 2005 Honda Goldwing
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 7630
Location: New Hampshire
Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:16 pm quote
I have heard good things about fluid film which prevents rust and also stops rust that has started. It has become very popular in New England where our roads are fertilized with salt.

http://www.fluid-film.com/
Hooked
Honda NC750D
Joined: 11 May 2016
Posts: 227
Location: Sussex coast.
Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:55 am quote
Any vehicle is only 'totalled' if the owner wants it to be (or 'accepts' it). 'Barn Finds' with big, rusty holes in them and rat's nests in the seats are restored to perfect condition..

OK, I accept that with a modern scoot there is a limit to how much you can spend on repairs before it becomes unviable, but, even so..

If you're going to throw your Vespa away - throw it in my direction, please!
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:43 am quote
NMonnens, Welcome to the site.

The good news is that your Vespa can be saved as Simon says in his post above this one. Pretty much any good body shop can do the job but a specialist who knows about Vespas or scooters with metal bodies in general would be a good place to go if you can. A smaller shop would maybe cost less but you need to get some quotes. You can then make up your mind as to how much if anything, you want to spend. You could take the opportunity to spruce up the whole bike, like a restoration. It could be cheaper than replacing your bike and you'll have a new looking bike that should last for years. One question: why did you let the rust get so bad? If you catch it early, it saves a lot of hassle! Very good luck with whatever you decide to do. Please post back and let us know what you decide.
Hooked
ET4 125 4T 1999 (gone) - LX 50 2T 2005 (gone) - PX 125 2016 (gone) - Sprint 125ie 3V 2016
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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:08 am quote
Have I seen rust like that on a Vespa before?

Here in the UK all the time!
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26198

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:58 am quote
Le beat me to it. Seems like the UK group have the most rust, especially underneath. Knocks on wood but i live in the land of salt air (2 blocks from the beach with trade winds that blow my way and high surf). That said i keep mine in a shed when i'm not on it. No rust. Well i have a little on the rear rack but the rack is 8yrs old. I'd find a good painter and get the rust stopped before your bike disintegrates. Good luck
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Aprilia SC300, Buddy 125, Typhoon 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:08 am quote
judy wrote:
Seems like the UK group have the most rust, especially underneath.
And some UK owners have posted excellent descriptions of procedures and products for rust removal and rust proof coatings. Might be worth looking up a couple of those.

GTS Rust Treatment: take a peek under the floorboards!

Rust Treatment for the Center Channel
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26198

Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:11 am quote
D spot on. Also i think i have a can of ACF-50 that is used for the underneath and if anybody needs it i can send it to them (USA only). I didn't need it and was very surprised when my underneath was fine. I don't think i thew it away.
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 26198

Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:12 am quote
NM if i have the ACF 50 in my shed do you want it? I'll ship it to you. Just PM me.
Hooked
Vespa GTS 150 3v SUPER. Vespa V100 x 1. Lambretta Li150 x 1. Px 125 x 2. Px 200 x 1 (red bull special) T5 Classic x 1. Vespa Cosa x 2 (so underated)
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Location: Perth Australia
Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:07 am quote
Yep, same happening to my GTS and I live in a relatively warm country. Also to the underneath.
To solve the issue underneath, I have treated the rust spots and sprayed an underbody sealant onto it.
To solve the seam part as yours highlights, I've treated the rust spots and used a chip coating and over sprayed with paint to match. (Well as close as possible. Cant get an exact paint match over here. Long story)

Good luck.
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:12 am quote
To treat internal underfloor panels, I've used something called 'Waxoyl'. It's a waxed based product loaded with anti rust chemicals and other chemicals to prevent the wax from ever drying out. It creeps everywhere once applied by brush or spray. It's non toxic. It's the sort of stuff car makers use inside doors, chassis and box sections to prevent rusting. The great thing about Waxoyl is that it's a permanent layer of protection. Once treated you never have to do it again. It also kills existing rust if you use it over the top of it. Stuff like ACF 50 and Dinitrol is ok but it needs re-doing every 12-18 months because it's not a permanent treatment. There are other brands of wax based treatments out there so I'd look for them if you cannot get Waxoyl. To treat the outside areas there are loads of products but you really need to remove as much rust as possible then treat it, then skim it before a respray. Or do as above and use an anti chip coating which can be oversprayed. They tend to look a bit rough though unless done properly. Going back to the OP's problem. I think the frame will need to be cut and welded with a patch or two. It's a structural area where the main rust is but it's an easy job for anyone with some knowledge to do.
Hooked
Vespa GTS 150 3v SUPER. Vespa V100 x 1. Lambretta Li150 x 1. Px 125 x 2. Px 200 x 1 (red bull special) T5 Classic x 1. Vespa Cosa x 2 (so underated)
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Location: Perth Australia
Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:20 am quote
[quote="Stromrider"]To treat internal underfloor panels, I've used something called 'Waxoyl'. It's a waxed based product loaded with anti rust chemicals and other chemicals to prevent the wax from ever drying out. It creeps everywhere once applied by brush or spray. It's non toxic. It's the sort of stuff car makers use inside doors, chassis and box sections to prevent rusting. The great thing about Waxoyl is that it's a permanent layer of protection. Once treated you never have to do it again. It also kills existing rust if you use it over the top of it. Stuff like ACF 50 and dinitrol is ok but it needs re-doing every 12-18 months because it's not a permanent treatment. There are other brands of wax based treatments out there so I'd look for them.[/quote

Waxoyl.....that sounds like a plan. Cheers buddy.
Member
Vespa 50s
Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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Location: New Zealand
Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:43 pm quote
Fishoil or fisholene, by another name works well too. I have sprayed fishoil through the top opening of the steering column area into the centre tunnel on my Vespa 50S and PX and the rusting has been arrested.
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LX150
Joined: 13 Nov 2016
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Location: San Francisco
Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:05 pm quote
Thanks all!
Thank you for all your replies.
Hooked
946, Sprint 150, PX 150.
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 407

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:53 pm quote
Oh man fishoil. My grandfather kept his tools in tip top shape for 57 years with that stuff.
Highly recommended.
Hooked
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 353
Location: London
Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:58 pm quote
I stuck 10 worth of paint protection film on the underside of my GTS 250 from about an inch above the seam to as far back as 10 worth of it would go. I'm a big fan of this stuff, there's 3800 of it covering my entire Porsche.

It stops rocks and crap coming off the front wheel damaging the paint and causing rust. Recommended.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Paint-protection-mm-Clear-8591E/dp/B0017SBH10/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472807717&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+paint+protection+film
Addicted
'07 GTS 250 - sold :(
Joined: 21 May 2007
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Location: Notts, England
Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:53 am quote
le bouch wrote:
Have I seen rust like that on a Vespa before?

Here in the UK all the time!
^^ This, sadly. They start to rot as soon as they cross the English Channel
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2013 GTS 300
Joined: 15 Nov 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Western NY USA
Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:21 pm quote
Hi Newbie here,
I've used Boeshield T-9 and Krown products on bicycles and vehicles here in Western NY. I also added a front mud flap to try and head off any stone damage to the under body. Not sure about the looks of the flap yet.
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:21 am quote
I think folks forget that Vespa's just like your car need attention to stone chips and scratches as soon as possible after they happen. If you don't treat them, they will eventually rust in spite of your Vespa having electrophoretic primer that stops rust. Cars also often have the added protection of galvannealed panels which further reduces the risk of rust. Additionally, many owners never look underneath their scooters to see if there has been stone chip damage. So the rust gets a hold. Here in the UK most bikes are fine and don't rust if the owners look after them in the proper way. I've serviced 7 and 8 year old Vespas that are used daily in all weathers and there is no rust. This is because the owners wash underneath their bikes, and touch up any stone chips. Internal rusting of the underfloor section again is not actually normal if the owner takes a look in there from time to time and uses a protective spray or better still, Waxoyl, to protect the bike when you first get it. But even if you don't use internal protection of that area, I've not yet seen a GTS for example, with rust under there. No doubt there are some. I have a neighbour with 40 year old Vespa. He's never done anything to it except clean it and touchup the paint. It's used daily. It'll go another 40 years without doubt. That's the great thing about Vespas. They are the VW Golf of the bike world in my opinion. But they are metal, and you have to look after anything metal. Could the factory do more to protect the bikes? Undoubtedly.

PS. Welcome Mowog!
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'07 GTS 250 - sold :(
Joined: 21 May 2007
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Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:26 am quote
You're clearly a fan of the marque, Stromrider. I am too.

I just think it's crazy that in the UK we've reached the point where we regard it as a normal consequence of Vespa ownership to have to restore and repair the frame after such a short time. Lots of UK Vespas become ongoing restoration projects within four or five years.

You compare Vespas to Golfs. To me they are miles apart. People wouldn't keep buying Golfs if they were advised to Waxoyl them from new, and that bubbling paintwork and untreated stone chips will lead to a badly rusted chassis within a few short years.
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:43 am quote
I recently went hunting for a GTS250 for my nephew. He hadn't got much money so was looking at quite old machines. I saw four different bikes, all well used, and they varied in age from 2007 to 2009. All had massive mileages on them, and I mean 50,000+ miles, and one of them actually with 74,000 on the clock (miles not km's) so you get a feel for the sort of bikes we were looking at. But actually, I was quite surprised at just how good they all were. Ok, 3 of them looked like sh*t, but none of them had any rust visible at all even with close inspection. I think the secret is to make sure you use your bike as much as possible. They keep better irrespective of whether you take it out in the salt or not if it's not standing around. As it happens, I found a (2010) GTS300 for him. It had 24,000 miles on the clock and no rust. Got a good deal on it too. I've Waxoyled it in every conceivable nook and cranny for him as he intends to keep it. No rust under the floor or anywhere and it won't rust now with the Waxoyl in place. So just speaking as I find really. I know some bikes do rust, but in my experience, it's often down to inexperienced owners not knowing you need to check your bike often for stone chips and corrosion in concealed places. It's part of maintenance. Yes I'm a big fan of Vespas, that includes the early bikes with the two strokes too. Bye the way, I'm an ex-car tech too. VW's Golfs do rust as well, even brand new ones, I promise you.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 5701
Location: Northants UK
Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:53 pm quote
Regular and long standing GTS riders in the UK know this can be a nasty problem that happens to most of us, but curable. Waxoyl isn't bad for internal work, but from past threads and my own experience, Dinitrol products offer the best combination for the GTS. Likewise ACF normally gets a plug but isn't a permanent external solution. Here's a past thread where I asked about products, ended up choosing Dinitrol from the comments, and the pics where I used them inside and out on the front on my GTS 300...

Recommendations/Experiences with Rust Prevention Wax? (UK)

I went on to do the rear engine bay, which can be as bad, but doesn't get picked up as quickly by owners because the corrosion tends to happen out of sight behind the rear panels...

GTS 300 rear rust treatment work
Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 5701
Location: Northants UK
Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:58 pm quote
Stromrider wrote:
I recently went hunting for a GTS250 for my nephew. He hadn't got much money so was looking at quite old machines. I saw four different bikes, all well used, and they varied in age from 2007 to 2009. All had massive mileages on them, and I mean 50,000+ miles, and one of them actually with 74,000 on the clock (miles not km's) so you get a feel for the sort of bikes we were looking at. But actually, I was quite surprised at just how good they all were.
I've kept an interest in the UK rust issue on GTS across a few forums, and its pretty much accepted that the early 250s had some of the best paint across the range, even better than later 300s, so your experience doesn't surprise me. I think later 300s from around 2010 onwards had a different composition paint (and less of it) and many of them have had rust issues very quickly when riding a lot and especially through a wet winter with salt treated UK roads. Left untreated or not cleaned off regularly from GTSs, and its deadly (as I'm sure you know from your past work)
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:53 am quote
Indeed brown_beret7, not saying they don't rust, there are some bad ones about, but you have to ask why? Any metal bike rusts, including my Burgman frame which is totally concealed with plastic. Although I've Waxoyled that when I first got her and there isn't a spot of rust on it. Have used Dinitrol in the past on cars and bikes but it's only a short term solution. Waxoyl is permanent and creeps just the same as Dinitrol, and self heals when scratched too. I will say that the paint on the modern bikes is as good if not better than on the older bikes. I've measured the paint thickness on the GTS's with a Gunsons 77067 gauge and it's really thick and lush by comparison to the 2008 bikes for example. Modern bikes also have electrophoretic primer which the earlier bikes didn't have. I recently did a powder coating job on an old GT200 for someone. The paint on that had to come off of course and I was surprised at how poor it was, but there wasn't any rust. By poor, I mean it was thin paint. Yet other bikes of that era that I've measured had much thicker paint. So the conclusion for me is that earlier quality control was actually not as good. I found the paint on modern bikes to be a more consistent thickness. But the GT200 I refer to above was a 12 year old bike. The OP's bike doesn't have the electrophoretic primer, if it had this it would no doubt be in better condition. Although even that won't stop rust if it isn't eventually removed and painted. If you look at the OP's bike you can see that the rust is very much external. It's also most likely internal. If it had been dealt with early then he would not be in this situation. Most owners would not let it go that far, thus saving themselves lots of dosh. So, I'm just saying it's not an inevitability that you bike will rust. My own experience is that the worst ones show up on forums giving a vast impression that they are all going to be like that. Yet all the bikes I service and the ones I ride and see don't seem to have any rust whatsoever, other than the odd stone chip, which I normally clean and touch up for the owners. The front seam where the OP's bike is rusting is always going to be a favourite place though but it's so easy to avoid. Not digging at the OP though. You have to know these things to be able to act.
Hooked
Honda NC750D
Joined: 11 May 2016
Posts: 227
Location: Sussex coast.
Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:11 am quote
I wonder if the change from cellulose paint to the modern water based paint has any bearing on the subject? Although I confess to having no idea when that change took place.

I must say I find the idea of rust proofing a new scooter with Waxoyle rather charming. Before you write me off as completely bonkers let me try and explain.

I'm not one to cry in my beer over the 'good old days' mostly because, in my memory at least, they were no such thing. I have absolutely zero desire to return to drum brakes, 6 volt electrics, kick starting and so on. Fine for a weekend hobby bike but less so if you want to get to work on time.

But, brilliant as modern machines are, I find them somewhat sterile, anodyne and lacking in character compared to those of my youth. Maybe this is why I find myself drawn to a new 300GTS? It has all the attributes of modernity but some of the need for 'owner involvement' of the older designs.

I have no trouble with the idea of investing a little time, effort (and money) in protecting a new scoot from the ravages of the U.K. weather. I just need to get on with it and buy one!
Molto Verboso
'99 PX200
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 1210
Location: Cheshire, England, UK, Europe.
Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:35 am quote
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but I saw this yesterday and thought of you twisty types.



http://www.scooterlab.uk/product/vespa-gts-sluk-guard/


Addicted
'07 GTS 250 - sold :(
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 997
Location: Notts, England
Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:46 am quote
simon64ds wrote:
[...]
I must say I find the idea of rust proofing a new scooter with Waxoyle rather charming.
[...]
I have no trouble with the idea of investing a little time, effort (and money) in protecting a new scoot from the ravages of the U.K. weather. I just need to get on with it and buy one!
I guess it just depends on the owner's enthusiasm for repairs and restoration. Pre-emptive or otherwise. Some folk relish the opportunity to get stuck into a project like that. For me it was beyond the call of duty.
Hooked
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 353
Location: London
Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:53 am quote
Ironfoot wrote:
simon64ds wrote:
[...]
I must say I find the idea of rust proofing a new scooter with Waxoyle rather charming.
[...]
I have no trouble with the idea of investing a little time, effort (and money) in protecting a new scoot from the ravages of the U.K. weather. I just need to get on with it and buy one!
I guess it just depends on the owner's enthusiasm for repairs and restoration. Pre-emptive or otherwise. Some folk relish the opportunity to get stuck into a project like that. For me it was beyond the call of duty.
Lots of people seem to be having success preventing corrosion with all sorts of spray on stuff or goop of some sort.

My solution of wiping the area clean, peeling the backing paper off my sticky back plastic and whacking it on has worked like a charm, took me literally two minutes and its practically invisible on a red scooter. It certainly wasn't "a project".
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'07 GTS 250 - sold :(
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Location: Notts, England
Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:24 am quote
That's great. Perhaps your model was a sound one to begin with. Mine was treated with all sorts of spray and goop. Vinyl film would've helped with external chips, but not with rusting out from the inside.
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Suzuki Burgman 400z abs 2012
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Starfleet Command, Essex, UK
Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:06 am quote
simon64ds wrote:
I wonder if the change from cellulose paint to the modern water based paint has any bearing on the subject? Although I confess to having no idea when that change took place.

I must say I find the idea of rust proofing a new scooter with Waxoyle rather charming. Before you write me off as completely bonkers let me try and explain.

I'm not one to cry in my beer over the 'good old days' mostly because, in my memory at least, they were no such thing. I have absolutely zero desire to return to drum brakes, 6 volt electrics, kick starting and so on. Fine for a weekend hobby bike but less so if you want to get to work on time.

But, brilliant as modern machines are, I find them somewhat sterile, anodyne and lacking in character compared to those of my youth. Maybe this is why I find myself drawn to a new 300GTS? It has all the attributes of modernity but some of the need for 'owner involvement' of the older designs.

I have no trouble with the idea of investing a little time, effort (and money) in protecting a new scoot from the ravages of the U.K. weather. I just need to get on with it and buy one!
Over here in "Urop" Cellulose paint hasn't been used for decades due to it's cyanide content. Plus, modern water based resin paints are superior in so many other ways.

Ironfoot, Waxoyl applied under the floor area prevents and will kill any existing rust in that area. Applied behind the front apron, and a nice thick coat over the seams will kill any access to oxygen and moisture, the main proponents of oxidisation. Removing the floor and back apron panels isn't really a project. It's really easy. It takes just a couple of hours to do the whole job properly. Wiping Waxoyl around the engine bay area takes just 10 mins and the net result it no rust ever! I think it's the thought of doing it for most folks that puts them off. They don't realise just how easy it is to do. No technical knowledge needed, just a screwdriver and a quick read up on it first to know where the screws are. Remember, the Vespas are amongst the easiest bikes on the road to diy and generally work on. Believe me, I've worked on just about every bike you can think of and the Vespas are a dream in that respect.

Note: in one of the post earlier in this thread, someone commented on the way Waxoyl changes colour to yellow as time goes by. Well, it's yellow to start with, but it changes colour to a darker orange if it's applied to a rusty area. But only in a rusty area. This means the chemicals in the product are working and it's absorbing the rust and killing it. That's all. No need to do anything except just leave it.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 (2013) PX200 Disc
Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Brighton, UK
Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:48 am quote
Common problem Piaggio inbuilt FAIL.
Here in the UK I doubt whether the condensation that builds up inside the frame ever evaporates due to lower average Spring Summer temperatures and rainfall all year round when compared with many/most US states. We get a wet rot here, particularly when roads are salted. I had a bike shipped from California to the UK (a classic bike 40 years old) that had some minor dry surface rust but that was it.

Piaggio apparently do not help this by...

1. NOT galvanising the sheet metal or dipping the frame prior to moulding or painting.

2. NOT thoroughly spraying inside surfaces or underneath the scoot (as with mine and many others)

3. Using a method of welding the frame together that creates voids between spot weld points (Piaggio used to use an overlap weld but now use a double turned over lip).

This weld type is on your LX at the legshield seam. On my GTS it is the same and when I inject ACF50 onto the weld lips through the inside floorboard rubber holes, it passes through the seam and actually exits on the OUTSIDE of the legshield and runs down under the scoot! This is poor quality control and a flawed design. So many Vespa's suffer this it is unreal.

You will need to strip your floorboards off, remove the corrosion to bare metal and then use anti-corrosion solution to treat the metal, covered by a rust inhibiting sealant. The front will need same, apart from the addition of your lovely Pontedera green.

A body shop could easily charge hundreds to do that. I would DIY friend.
Save some money.
Hooked
946, Sprint 150, PX 150.
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
Posts: 407

Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:49 pm quote
You guys might want to try removing the rear tail light and check for rust.
It's a silent one you don't see until it's well into the body.
My friend found out my hearing his tail light rattling and there it was.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 5940
Location: Wichita KS USA
Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:39 pm quote
'fraid I haven't. But you know what they say, it is only matter of time.
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