OP
@alloo avatar
UTC

Hooked
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Hooked
@alloo avatar
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
UTC quote
I'm thinking about adding more power to my MP3 250 ie. Which kit would be better and why. I want a stock looking and sounding bike (sleeper) that can move the bike better. What are your thoughts?

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/malossi-master-part-list/malossi-271cc-cylinder-kit-for-vespa-gts-250?zenid=faf47d5d5eb0c87caba0e6ffdc1d3097

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/malossi-master-part-list/malossi-v4-head-for-liquid-cooled-vespa-piaggio-aprilia

Thank You!
@klaborde avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
 
Ossessionato
@klaborde avatar
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
UTC quote
Re: Engine Performance Upgrade
alloo wrote:
I'm thinking about adding more power to my MP3 250 ie. Which kit would be better and why. I want a stock looking and sounding bike (sleeper) that can move the bike better. What are your thoughts?

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/malossi-master-part-list/malossi-271cc-cylinder-kit-for-vespa-gts-250?zenid=faf47d5d5eb0c87caba0e6ffdc1d3097

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/malossi-master-part-list/malossi-v4-head-for-liquid-cooled-vespa-piaggio-aprilia

Thank You!
I have been wanting to do this myself for years.
A change where I don't feel I have the Expertise to do on my own.
I can strip the bike of all its body parts, do a lot of the maintenance, but not something like this. I have had conversations with a few subject matter experts about me stripping the ABS off my Bike and deliver it to them Naked for the update, and I will re-assemble the Bike to save on Labor.

I put my 2009 MP3/250 in the Category of a "Collector Bike", since you can't buy them anymore, and it has by far the least amount of problems as the MP3/500's. The Engine from the GTS/GTV "AKA Quasar", and other Bikes sold by Vespa is an outstanding engine, but it just lacks power for the heavy MP3/250.

Please keep us informed on your progress if you go this route. You are basically making a MP3/300 which I think it will be a better bike especially if you ride in Hilly Roads as I do in the North Georgia Mountains.

You will also need a Performance Exhaust with the items you have listed which is getting harder to find, but I think Malossi still makes the slip one but they are expensive. I run the LeoVince and have a New Spare as I knew the supply of them were drying up over the years.


Keith,
Marietta, GA
UTC

Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 135
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
 
Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 135
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
UTC quote
V4 ead with bigger valves and bigger displacement cilyndar would not generate any performance improvement since Throttle body (ECU) makes auto adjustment. Performance exhaust also wouldn't help except noise level.
You have to put this and slightly enrich fuel/air mixture in mid revs and something more in high revs. You have to buy this ECU controll box and cable set:
http://www.polini.com/en/page_699.html
@klaborde avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
 
Ossessionato
@klaborde avatar
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
UTC quote
balki wrote:
V4 ead with bigger valves and bigger displacement cilyndar would not generate any performance improvement since Throttle body (ECU) makes auto adjustment. Performance exhaust also wouldn't help except noise level.
You have to put this and slightly enrich fuel/air mixture in mid revs and something more in high revs. You have to buy this ECU controll box and cable set:
http://www.polini.com/en/page_699.html
I agree with what you are saying, but I feel the modifications he has called out would increase the Engine HP, so that would give him a faster bike.

Malossi also makes a similar product, and you can also go with a larger Cam Shaft as well. I am sure he is trying to keep his cost to a minimum...

Keith,
Marietta, GA
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
if you really want to upgrade you do both the head and cylinder, plus an exhaust, new FI and some better mapping.
UTC

Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 135
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
 
Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 135
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
UTC quote
No possible mapping of Piaggio 250ie throttle body ECU
@klaborde avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
 
Ossessionato
@klaborde avatar
2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4308
Location: Marietta, GA
UTC quote
old as dirt wrote:
if you really want to upgrade you do both the head and cylinder, plus an exhaust, new FI and some better mapping.
+1... To those who know what they are taking about !
@maksor avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4520
Location: Netherlands Olst
 
Ossessionato
@maksor avatar
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4520
Location: Netherlands Olst
UTC quote
no problem to remap the throttlebody can do all bikes cars trcks and boats Razz emoticon
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22412
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
balki wrote:
No possible mapping of Piaggio 250ie throttle body ECU
not true.
OP
@alloo avatar
UTC

Hooked
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Hooked
@alloo avatar
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
UTC quote
Engine Performance Upgrade
I have found the kit that includes both parts and is cheaper than purchasing the parts separately. I want to do this modification to increase power (acceleration). I have seen others perform this modification without a new ECU, but with a new pipe. I want a sleeper bike that kicks ass and is quiet.

I feel that the MP3 is a great platform since it doesn't have the head shake that older GT and GTS that plagues the Vespa platform. We will see. Maybe I'll buy the kit and get it installed later in the year.

Thank You for your input! I probably could buy a larger scooter, but why.

https://scooterpartsco.com/piaggio-parts/piaggio-mp3-250-parts/malossi-271cc-racing-top-end-kit-for-vespa-250-piaggio-250?zenid=9c1e8b9d304f7d1b5fd1eb5cca6302d0
⚠️ Last edited by alloo on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Hooked
Aprilia Mojito 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 474
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
 
Hooked
Aprilia Mojito 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 474
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
UTC quote
In fact, for the price of head etc you can buy 500cc engine with ECU and wheel. I don't know if anyone will chech exhaust volume on your bike, but anyway it will change if you change the cylinder only. So maybe you should check this way too.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8794
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8794
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
You could also stick a Hayabusa engine in it, but that's not what the OP wants to do.
Believe it or not, this isn't something brand new that nobody has ever tried. Making the valves bigger, increasing the compression ratio and increasing the bore are usually common sense ways to maker an engine perform better. You could look at what happens on a dyno, which usually shows a dramatic increase (20-25%) in horsepower, or you could ask everyone who's put one in and can't believe the difference it made.
@mike_holland avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
GTS300 Super 2015 Blue, GTS300 Super 2023 Beige
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3350
Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Ossessionato
@mike_holland avatar
GTS300 Super 2015 Blue, GTS300 Super 2023 Beige
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3350
Location: Sydney, Australia
UTC quote
I have fitted the Malossi V4 cylinder and head to two scooters, a GTS250 and a GTS300, which use the same quasar engine as the MP3. In both cases it gave a great increase in performance, and is in fact the only mod that really does make a differenced. All the other mods are just the cream on top of this.

Of course, it works better with better breathing - an aftermarket exhaust and a Malossi or KN airfilter.

The ECU only compensates for any fuelling changes below about 6000 rpm. Above this it just follows its programming and ignores the exhaust probe. So you could use a larger injector to improve fuelling in the upper ranges, and a lambda emulator to fool the ECU in the lower rev ranges. Or you could get the ECU re-programmed, at fair expense.

Then there is the transmission to be tuned. Generally fitting rollers 1 gram lighter will help acceleration without affecting top speed. But there are dozens of options here - variators, clutch springs, clutches, etc.,etc.

Mike
@roadster avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Kymco AK550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1163
Location: UK
 
Molto Verboso
@roadster avatar
Kymco AK550
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1163
Location: UK
UTC quote
If you enjoy working on engines and find it rewarding then just jump in. On the other hand for the best return on you money simply sell the 250 and get a 400 or 500. You could still use all that spare workshop time in experimenting with intake, fuelling, exhaust, and transmission modifications which you would have to do with a modified engine anyway.
The single most effective way to gain acceleration on the MP3 is to use lighter weights in the variator. If the engine is getting closer to peak power rpm during acceleration then by definition it is more powerful across that entire performance range except flat-out. For example ( taken from published power curves for the 400 engine):-
power at 5000 rpm = 22 HP
power at 6000 rpm = 27 HP
so in that case increasing rpm during acceleration by 1000 rpm increases power by more than 20% which is much more than any physical tuning alone. In fact most tuning improvements are achieved by moving the peak power delivery to higher rpm which is not very effective if the variator is restricting the engine rpm to mid range rpm.
OP
@alloo avatar
UTC

Hooked
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Hooked
@alloo avatar
2016 Piaggio BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 422
Location: Albuquerque, NM
UTC quote
roadster wrote:
If you enjoy working on engines and find it rewarding then just jump in. On the other hand for the best return on you money simply sell the 250 and get a 400 or 500. You could still use all that spare workshop time in experimenting with intake, fuelling, exhaust, and transmission modifications which you would have to do with a modified engine anyway.
The single most effective way to gain acceleration on the MP3 is to use lighter weights in the variator. If the engine is getting closer to peak power rpm during acceleration then by definition it is more powerful across that entire performance range except flat-out. For example ( taken from published power curves for the 400 engine):-
power at 5000 rpm = 22 HP
power at 6000 rpm = 27 HP
so in that case increasing rpm during acceleration by 1000 rpm increases power by more than 20% which is much more than any physical tuning alone. In fact most tuning improvements are achieved by moving the peak power delivery to higher rpm which is not very effective if the variator is restricting the engine rpm to mid range rpm.
I guess I don't want the extra 90 lbs of bike. I like the idea of more torque from the current ride. My bike is ten years old anyway. What harm is a head and cylinder kit. I'm not going to gun it everywhere. The MP3 is my weekend bike. I have a Yamaha Majesty for a larger bike. I like the fun of the MP3 250ie and think it's a better platform compared to the BV or GT series. Better braking too! I'm probably will get this kit when I get my 12 k service done. Not sure I want to variate too much from stock parts for the transmission. I ride this bike maybe twice a week. I use the Majesty to go to work and don't own a car. The bike may generate 23-25 HP we will see how things turn out. In my younger days I used to build mopeds to go about 50 MPH on a 50cc motor through internal engine modifications utilizing the modified stock air boxes and exhaust. not a kit. My mopeds are faster than stock PX150s. When I owned a PX150 I thought that the bike was a dog! Just my opinion.

I've read others on the forum that have modified the GTS! They were pleased. Originally wanted to put the 282 cc kit from the GT300 but was told that the wrist pins were different. So here I go with the 271cc kit. Also read that the bv350 topend could be used, but I prefer to go with a plug and play kit.
@lecson avatar
UTC

Lurker
Piaggio MP3 500 LT ABS ASR
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
 
Lurker
@lecson avatar
Piaggio MP3 500 LT ABS ASR
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
UTC quote
You can beter Sell youre 250cc and spent the money for a 400cc/500cc

You Will get much more power and its safe.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0373s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0130s) ][ Debug on ][ 313 ][ Thing One ]