Smallframe with a P200 engine?
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a herd of easy shifty rats
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6793
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Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:20 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
...
That green smally looks pretty cool Voodoo! It also looks like your motor is "warmed over" a little bit as well?
....
Fooled you! That's a 2007 Stella, cut up and narrowed down. That is a smallie headset though. Look here : Cutdowns, show me cutdowns Motor is stockish P200 w/ Pinasco alloy kit, PHBL24 & a fat pipe. AND a custom kickstart!



Deadline extension noted and re: 'hot laps', you remind me of my test runs on the Greek island where I started out fooling with these things. We are on the side of a small mountain, so when I test run it's always uphill so I can coast back to base when something goes wrong.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:07 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
...
That green smally looks pretty cool Voodoo! It also looks like your motor is "warmed over" a little bit as well?
....
Fooled you! That's a 2007 Stella, cut up and narrowed down. That is a smallie headset though. Look here : Cutdowns, show me cutdowns Motor is stockish P200 w/ Pinasco alloy kit, PHBL24 & a fat pipe. AND a custom kickstart!



Deadline extension noted and re: 'hot laps', you remind me of my test runs on the Greek island where I started out fooling with these things. We are on the side of a small mountain, so when I test run it's always uphill so I can coast back to base when something goes wrong.
Yes, you did get me! I remember reading your thread a while back when you welded on the side cowls, but I somehow missed the rest of the build. The reason I remembered was because I did the same thing to my T5 racer a while back. There was just too much rust on the square tail to save it, so it got ďstreamlinedĒ a smidge...

Fantastic work! Yours came out quite nicely and looks visually proportionate, which can be quite difficult when a large frame gets cut down.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:21 pm quote
I did another little modification today on the PK. I wasnít too particularly satisfied about the current way I have to refill the oil reservoir. I currently have to stick a hose on the end of a funnel, then very slowly let the oil drain into the Nalgene bottle. The hose has to go up and under the cowl, so itís similar shaped the same as a Crazy Straw. It still only takes about 2-3 minutes to completely refill the tank, but I wanted a simpler solution. Why? Because if I go on a 200 mile one way ride, I donít want to have to bring a proprietary funnel and hose with me in order to refill the reservoir.

So I decided to drill a hole...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:29 pm quote
...and then I made it bigger. In fact itís now a 1-1/4Ē diameter hole. I guesstimated about where I though the center of the reservoir cap was, and it turned out I drilled it dead on! If you look down the hole, you can see the pink Nalgene cap and the silver check valve breather cap.
I used a holesaw, then cleaned it up some with a step bit, then dressed any sharp edges with a round file.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:32 pm quote
I conveniently had a 1-5/16Ē rubber plug to stick in the 1-1/4Ē hole that I found in my shop.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:36 pm quote
With the plug installed, I donít think it looks too evasive...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:39 pm quote
This little mod should make it much more convenient in the long run to keep the reservoir filled.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:43 pm quote
I also got a picture today of a couple of my PKís together...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:00 am quote
Happy Valentineís Day everybody!

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:02 am quote
I still need to add a few things, such as emblems and Iíll probably paint the cowls white .

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:03 am quote
And a front on shot...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:04 am quote
The back corner...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:07 am quote
The aftermarket fly side cowl is a pretty poor fit. I might have to fab up my own. But I donít know yet.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:08 am quote
And a top view...

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Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4603
Location: So Cal
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:38 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
... goals were ... cute, goofy, and cool enough at the same time that it makes 90% of the people who see it laugh or smile and the other 10% shake there head at it....
Iíd say you nailed it!
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:20 am quote
WTG!! Came out great. The only thing I personally didnít like, are the rear indicators / break lights. I think that if you were to put lenses on top, they would look much better. There are red lenses from Bosatta...

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/7674788/pair-of-indicator-lenses-bosatta-vespa-pk50-xl-pk125-xl-rear?number=7674791

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Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4603
Location: So Cal
Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:00 pm quote
Instead of painting the cowls white, Iíd paint the glovebox, horncast and lower headset a satin black.

So howís it run?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:47 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
WTG!! Came out great. The only thing I personally didnít like, are the rear indicators / break lights. I think that if you were to put lenses on top, they would look much better. There are red lenses from Bosatta...

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/7674788/pair-of-indicator-lenses-bosatta-vespa-pk50-xl-pk125-xl-rear?number=7674791
It sounds like you and I are on the same page about covering the rear signals with a lens. I originally planned to do that, so I ordered a new set of lenses for the rear, but they fit so poorly I didn't install them. I was also concerned that road film, water, and dirt would get between the LED and the lens. It was the amber colored ones that I purchased though SIP. Though they are amber colored, whenever the running or brake light was on, red was the color that was show because the LEDs were so bright. I might try refitting them again at a later point.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:10 pm quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Instead of painting the cowls white, Iíd paint the glovebox, horncast and lower headset a satin black.

So howís it run?
I think I might agree with you that a satin black might look better. But the thing is, when I got the pink frame, the side cowls that came with it were already painted white. It looked sooo wrong, I kinda liked it like that. So would the scoot look cooler with those parts black?...I think 90% of us here would say yes...but remember, the whole point of the build is to make people scratch their head and laugh.

When I get a chance, i'll swap on the white cowl again and take a second look at it. It was about 6 months ago since I fitted that cowl on, so with the scooter now assembled, I might not like it as much...well see.

The scooter seems to be running OK. It tops out at only 65mph. That same engine that was previously in my P2, used to be good for 70mph+. The only thing that has been changed with the motor is a new Sito (replacing the old Sito), and the SIP Vape ignition. Perhaps it's that prefilter screen that I put over the carb box inlet?...I'll do another speed run with it removed to see if it changes anything.
As for handling...at highway speeds it rides like a normal P2. At real low speeds, such as below 5mph, it feels peculiar if you try braking and turning to the right at the same time. It's because of the wheel offset from the front wide tire kit. It will make the scoot turn sharper to the right when braking right. When you're going faster it's not noticeable. Once the roads dry out some, i'll try it out on the twisties.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a herd of easy shifty rats
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6793
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:52 pm quote
Love it and Happy Valentines Day! Love the little details like the strap loops on your centerstand bolts and the genuine swing away Stadium mirrors. The cowls, paint 'em white. You know you want to, it'll complete the look and you can always change things later. It'll be cute.

Looks like you have no rear 'bumper' or it hasn't arrived? You got PM - if you need one, I'll get on it.

P.S. I think you need to do an update here soon: PK love page
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 363
Location: california
Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:15 am quote
Hack photo shop job preview - just squint...

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 1906
Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:19 pm quote
I like it! Have you looked at running the front brake line down the left side of the horn cover and around the back of the fork?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
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Location: Indo
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:39 pm quote
top job mate top job
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6844
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:53 pm quote
Ha ha! Just found this pic and thought of your build! Although to be fair it's actually a P... it's from this page about the Japanese smallies.

http://www.smallframes.com/narikawa/narikawa.htm?fbclid=IwAR0MX_8FamQGHg15ttkGfSRsUnFT4zBGYQidV3huuebGr9HZ1zkM3Avjfys

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:10 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Ha ha! Just found this pic and thought of your build! Although to be fair it's actually a P... it's from this page about the Japanese smallies.

http://www.smallframes.com/narikawa/narikawa.htm?fbclid=IwAR0MX_8FamQGHg15ttkGfSRsUnFT4zBGYQidV3huuebGr9HZ1zkM3Avjfys

Wow, what are the chances of that? That's some sweet find there Ginch. I almost want to try to reproduce that same picture. I just need a stick of red channel lip stick and some eye liner.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6844
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:08 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Wow, what are the chances of that? That's some sweet find there Ginch. I almost want to try to reproduce that same picture. I just need a stick of red channel lip stick and some eye liner.
Fortunately good taste is holding you back!

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sat May 11, 2019 4:42 pm quote
As an update on my PK, I ended up making an expensive pencil holder about a month and a half ago. I replaced the piston with a new Grand Sport and had the cylinder honed. I didnít feel any grit in the big end bearing on the crankshaft, so I cleaned it really well and reused it. I did replace the small end bearing and seal just in case though. After I slapped the cases back together, I upped my jetting a few point and adjusted the timing a smidge.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sat May 11, 2019 5:36 pm quote
A week later, with only a few miles on the new piston, I decided to join in on a ride that a local motorcycle club put on. I should have gone easier on the new piston, but I got caught up in the moment. I also wanted to test out the handling of the scooter, so I ended up pushing it fairly hard. On the route, there were LOTS of twisties. I should have worn full leathers, so shame on me for not. I just need to find some white and pink leathers so it donít look weird while Iím out riding around...

So about the handling...
Well #1, thereís a huge heavy P200 engine hanging out the side of a small PK.

#2, wide tire kits both front and rear (3Ēx11Ē).

#3, thereís a P fork up front with a lowered Bitubo shock.

#4, the P headset is a smidge higher up on the fork stem than what a PK would be.

#5, the upper rear shock mount has been lengthened some, so the rear of the scooter rides higher than normal.

First off, Iíve always been a firm believer that if you get used to riding any particular 2 wheeled anything, you will feel comfortable riding that moto (or at least should). If you were to hop on anything different than what your used to, itís going to feel peculiar. Even changing shocks on your daily ride will make it feel different, and it will take some getting used to...

So how did I feel how mine rode? It took a few miles to get comfortable on it, but since I was on roads that I was very familiar with, I felt confident the whole time. I couldnít find any quirks with the braking or handling whatsoever...well, thatís not entirely true. If I were to brake super hard while going less than 5mph WHILE turning, then the offset of the front side wheel would cause the handlebars to ďpullĒ in the direction I was turning. I donít think itís a downfall, or even a safety issue, itís just getting acclimated to the scooter.

While the bench seat is comfortable, itís not really meant for ďspiritedĒ riding. I felt too ďon topĒ of the scooter, rather than ďpart ofĒ the scooter. But I think thatís only an issue for only a particular type of riding. Iím confident that if I installed a fiberglass seat pan, it would remedy that feeling.

On the sharp twisties, it handles just as well as my P200...in fact maybe a little better? With the wide tires, I never seemed to run out of traction even on the sharpest of corners. I did have to make a conscious effort to not drag my knees on a few of the sharp corners since I wasnít wearing leathers with knee pucks.

There were LOTS of sneaker potholes in the twisties, so whenever I would hit one mid-turn, the overly stiff front Bitubo shock would make the front tire skip some...which would usually put me right on the very outside of the road, and usually a long drop off the shoulder and into the trees. Iíd like to find a softer spring for the front shock.

When comparing the suspension on my PK200 to my P200, I feel as though the PK came out as a success.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6844
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat May 11, 2019 6:03 pm quote
Re the old piston - bugger! Re the new - how did you find the comparison, was there a difference? And does it have the thinner rings?

Sounds like the ride was a success! The way you started your story off, I thought it was going to end with gravel rash at least!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sat May 11, 2019 9:41 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Re the old piston - bugger! Re the new - how did you find the comparison, was there a difference? And does it have the thinner rings?

Sounds like the ride was a success! The way you started your story off, I thought it was going to end with gravel rash at least!
The ride was a success! And youíre correct, after rereading my post, i guess I kinda accidentally foreshadowed a foreboded ride. At the same time, I had plenty of opportunities to go down on some of those sketchy roads. Iím pretty sure I wore some enamel off my teeth when I was clenching around some of those sneaker corners. I was waiting to ground out on the Sito while going around some of them, it it never happened. Iím thinking it didnít was because the wide tire gave me a smidge more ground clearance? I dunno yet. Iíll have to measure the lean angle on the PK, then compare it to a standard P200.

The piston that I holed was also a GS piston. Thatís why I was extra bummed when it happened. That, and I had to push my scoot for a mile and a half up hill to get home (I live out in a rural area out in the hills) while I was wearing my Carhartt Actric insulated bibs. I was sweating like crazy when I finally got home.

The GS piston has thin rings when compared to stock. Iíve been using the GS pistons on all my rebuilds for quite some time now. Can I tell the difference between them and stock? I dunno, itís been so long that Iíve used a stock one, that canít say. The thin ringed GS is the ďgo toĒ piston when youíre opening up the ports more (especially the exhaust port), but I never mess with that stuff, so it doesnít really pertain to my situation. But since thinner rings will have less friction, then in theory, that should free up some hidden power.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 8:26 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Jack221 wrote:
DK SOB was a BMX brand. I guess that would work.

btw, wasn't that air filter gauze just like the one that sdjohn had all that trouble with?
I wasn't aware that sdjohn had issues with this kind of air filter. Funny thing you mentions it though...the reason i had this air filter in my shop was because i was having trouble with it when i had it on my tuned up T5. No matter what i did, i couldn't get the engine to run correctly with that dang filter. The filter does seem to work ok on this engine though, but only because i removed all of the gauzing filter out of it. I'm just using the filter as a metal screen to keep the larger chunks out of the air box.



And no, not a DK. Real close though...
And a follow up to the air filter screen that i had originally been using...it sucked. I couldnít get the engine up to full throttle with it. I had removed it about a month ago, but I never brought it up here. Looking closer at the air filter, the rubber mounting that it came with it necks down quite a bit and severely constricts the air flow to the carb box. Once I removed the filter screen, the engine would run fine again. So a few weeks ago on my ride, i didnít have a pre filter screen for the carb box (I am still using the standard carb filter though). Grit and gunk seems to easily accumulate in the carb box with no filter, so yesterday I decided to try to figure out a cheap and simple fix...

I went down the the plumbing isle of the local homo depo, and bought a rubber ABS coupler (Just like a Fernco, but a different brand). It was a 1.5Ē to 2Ē stepped adapter coupler (or maybe is was a 2Ē to 2.5Ē? Iíll have to double check).

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 8:31 pm quote
I slipped off the outer metal band clamp because I had no use for it.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 8:35 pm quote
In my hand you can see the connector, and I cut about 3/4Ē off of it to make it as short as possible. In the background, you can see the rubber adapter that came with the filter screen. You can see how it necks down quite a bit.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 8:42 pm quote
In this picture, you can see that I took a die grinder, and created a groove around the inside of the connector. The will lock it onto the ridge thatís on the carb box. I also ground a little notch in the rubber so that there would be room for the choke cable to fit easily in the carb box as well. What I didnít get a picture of, is that I cut part of the air filter screen down some, but if you look closely at it in the picture, you can see that it has been cut some.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 8:53 pm quote
Anyhow, the metal filter screen is a very tight press fit into the rubber connector, and the connector clips onto the carb box quite nicely.

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Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1380

Sun May 12, 2019 9:02 pm quote
The new filter is very incognito being tucked back in there. I havenít had a chance to test it yet...I had what seemed like a very bad air leak. The engine was racing, and I couldnít get the throttle to come down to an acceptable idle no matter what I did. My first inclination was that is was the carb. I swapped a 24/24 carb off my other P200, and installed it on the PK. It ran great after that. So I ordered up a new 24/24 carb, and it should arrive this week...which is just in time for the weather to change back to rain for the next 7 days.

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