Is there an epidemic of Vespa thefts in North London?
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Lurker
Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Location: London
Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:24 pm quote
Hi there.

I'm a newbie, both to this forum and to owning a Vespa. But I wish I were happier about becoming a Vespa owner.

It's nothing to do with the bike itself - having had a lowkey Yamaha for quite a while, I was very happy to trade up to a new Vespa GTS 300 a month ago. But what has happened since then has been a nightmare.

On day 2 of owning the bike, it was stolen from outside my house. It had two locks on it (one locked to a lamppost), an immobiliser and a tracker. I also live on a fairly busy street in North London. None of that stopped thieves, in the wee hours of the morning, using angle grinders to zip through the locks, then drilled the ignition and off they went. I got a call from the tracking company and with the police recovered the scooter quickly - it was temporarily dumped about 1km from my house. I thought I was mighty unlucky, got the moped repaired and quickly rented space in a secure garage nearby.

All was was fine until last week, when I got another call from the tracking company, this time at 4am. And again it had been taken about 1km away from my house and again the police and I were with the scooter very quickly. Again, I had to have damage repaired (more done this time, plus they stole my helmet and gloves out of the top box, which they broke). At least there was CCTV footage for the police to use but I don't know if that was of any use. Much more worrying was that the thieves got into a gated garage that requires keyfob access and then got away again, once they'd used the angle grinders to get through the various locks on the bike.

I got got the bike back from repair this afternoon, popped home and in the 30 minutes I was in the house it was stolen yet again. Yet again the tracker company was able to locate the scooter, this time whilst it was on the move, and I saw the thieves from about 200m, as they sped off having left the scooter. Ok, this time I didn't put locks on it - I was only nipping into the house briefly and it was still afternoon - but the thieves weren't stopped by the immobiliser. It was a good thing that no damage was done to the scooter but I am left wondering about the effectiveness of immobilisers.

It breaks my heart, but I think I have to sell the scooter, it's just crazy having had it stolen three times in a few weeks, including from a supposedly secure garage and despite locks and immobilisers.

Does anyone one living in North London know if there's something going on with moped/Vespa theft right now? And are immobilisers useless? Any other ideas about this situation?
Ossessionato
GTS 250 "Audrey"
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 2117
Location: New Harbor, Maine
Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:01 pm quote
Very sorry to hear what you've been going through. Thieves You are not the least bit alone, unfortunately. I can only offer an opinion based on what I've read posted by your London neighbours. That being the case, I'll let them tell you first hand what is going on.

I'll say this, I think your lucky to still have it. That tracking device/company sounds pretty good, as the recovery appears to be rather quick.
Ossessionato
2010 Orange S150
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 3504
Location: Olympia, WA, USA
Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:45 pm quote
Sad to say it is a well known issue amongst London MV members. Sad tales abound here:

GTS 300 thefts in London
Hooked
Matt Black 2014 300GTS Super Sport
Joined: 27 Nov 2015
Posts: 304
Location: Perranporth, Cornwall, England
Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:51 am quote
Move away from London and rejoin the civilised world.
Hooked
GTS 300 Touring
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 350
Location: Doncaster UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:10 am quote
Personally I'd be that upset I'd sell it and cut my losses. You're not going to sleep well knowing what could be happening to your pride and joy. There's not enough Rozzers around to deter these scummy pond life bastards. The sooner some of these idiots get killed whilst riding around on someone else's scooter the better. I know I'm going to be vilified for that comment but it's how I feel.
Addicted
Vespa GTS Super
Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 510
Location: London
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:18 am quote
rjc1944 wrote:
Move away from London and rejoin the civilised world.
Do you really think this is of any use or value to the OP?
Addicted
Vespa GTS Super
Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 510
Location: London
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:25 am quote
Re: Is there an epidemic of Vespa thefts in North London?
26may1989 wrote:
Hi there.

I'm a newbie, both to this forum and to owning a Vespa. But I wish I were happier about becoming a Vespa owner.

It's nothing to do with the bike itself - having had a lowkey Yamaha for quite a while, I was very happy to trade up to a new Vespa GTS 300 a month ago. But what has happened since then has been a nightmare.

On day 2 of owning the bike, it was stolen from outside my house. It had two locks on it (one locked to a lamppost), an immobiliser and a tracker. I also live on a fairly busy street in North London. None of that stopped thieves, in the wee hours of the morning, using angle grinders to zip through the locks, then drilled the ignition and off they went. I got a call from the tracking company and with the police recovered the scooter quickly - it was temporarily dumped about 1km from my house. I thought I was mighty unlucky, got the moped repaired and quickly rented space in a secure garage nearby.

All was was fine until last week, when I got another call from the tracking company, this time at 4am. And again it had been taken about 1km away from my house and again the police and I were with the scooter very quickly. Again, I had to have damage repaired (more done this time, plus they stole my helmet and gloves out of the top box, which they broke). At least there was CCTV footage for the police to use but I don't know if that was of any use. Much more worrying was that the thieves got into a gated garage that requires keyfob access and then got away again, once they'd used the angle grinders to get through the various locks on the bike.

I got got the bike back from repair this afternoon, popped home and in the 30 minutes I was in the house it was stolen yet again. Yet again the tracker company was able to locate the scooter, this time whilst it was on the move, and I saw the thieves from about 200m, as they sped off having left the scooter. Ok, this time I didn't put locks on it - I was only nipping into the house briefly and it was still afternoon - but the thieves weren't stopped by the immobiliser. It was a good thing that no damage was done to the scooter but I am left wondering about the effectiveness of immobilisers.

It breaks my heart, but I think I have to sell the scooter, it's just crazy having had it stolen three times in a few weeks, including from a supposedly secure garage and despite locks and immobilisers.

Does anyone one living in North London know if there's something going on with moped/Vespa theft right now? And are immobilisers useless? Any other ideas about this situation?
Sadly mate, yes there is an issue with bike theft in London at the moment and the GTS 300 is their prime target that and the BV 350. I'd wager too its the same gang coming back each time.

What locks have you been using? There are some good security tips in the wiki section that might help but if they are using angle grinders all you can do is try and slow them down.
Ossessionato
LX190
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 4983
Location: New Zealand
Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:29 am quote
When you purchased the scooter did the dealer warn you about the theft problems?
Hooked
GTS 300 Touring
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 350
Location: Doncaster UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:09 am quote
znomit wrote:
When you purchased the scooter did the dealer warn you about the theft problems?
It's a nice thought however the London dealers would be out of business very quickly as they'd never sell any Vespas.
Ossessionato
2006 GT200
Joined: 23 Feb 2016
Posts: 2427
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:08 am quote
Oof, read this last night and it broke my heart.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 6059
Location: Northants UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:24 am quote
There's no comfort in saying this issue has been on the forum for a while, and yes, it's getting to the epidemic level...

But the safety kit of chains and trackers is trying to keep pace - the war isn't lost.

Angle grinder. Central London. Broad daylight.

GTS 125 Midnight Blue Stolen in London

London Scooter Theft - taking action

London bike theft protest

My little beauty stolen: London plague

Security
Gobshite Shiva
Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 14958
Location: London UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:55 am quote
the short answer to your question is yes, there's an epidemic, yes, the Piaggio immobilisers are useless, and it's almost certainly the same gang looking out for the bike and coming back to get it whenever they see an opportunity. Are you in Islington by any chance?

I only know of one London-based member on this site who hasn't had their Vespa tampered with or stolen. Mine went about 18 months ago and I've since moved away from the brand. All scooters are vulnerable, though, so if there's a particularly active gang in your area, which it sounds like there is, you'd probably be better off with a geared motorbike.

The police are very much aware of the issue and are starting to crack down, slowly - doing what they can with dwindling resources. It'll get better eventually, but for now, yes, I'd get rid of that 300 pronto. Sorry if this isn't the answer you were hoping for
Gobshite Shiva
Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 14958
Location: London UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:01 am quote
smeghead wrote:
Personally I'd be that upset I'd sell it and cut my losses. You're not going to sleep well knowing what could be happening to your pride and joy. There's not enough Rozzers around to deter these scummy pond life bastards. The sooner some of these idiots get killed whilst riding around on someone else's scooter the better. I know I'm going to be vilified for that comment but it's how I feel.
while I'm not sure I condone quite such an extreme fate, I'm certainly not going to vilify you for that comment. Having had my own ride nicked by said pond scum, I share your anger - and I confess that I'm not overwhelmed with feelings of sadness and loss when they do come a cropper.
Hooked
GT200 / ET2 Kitted
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 171
Location: Westminster, CO - USA
Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:18 am quote
Holy smokes, it sounds just brutal what is going on over there. It seems like a losing battle to me - the thieves obviously are not concerned AT ALL with getting caught.

Sorry to hear that's how it is across the pond
Enthusiast
2007 LX150
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Posts: 81

Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:39 am quote
that's literally insane. how on earth has scooter thefts gotten that bad over there?
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1779
Location: London
Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:14 am quote
Paperino wrote:
That tracking device/company sounds pretty good, as the recovery appears to be rather quick.
The sad thing is that you usually end up paying for recovery, new locks, damage to bike (steering lock) etc or you end up paying a fortune in raised premiums for your insurance. It's a shame that Piaggio won't address the problem, especially considering the asking price.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
1975 Vespa GTR 125, 1976 Vespa V90 (Resto), 2001 Vespa ET4 125 (Sold), 2009 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 6059
Location: Northants UK
Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:18 am quote
[quote="robinm"]
Paperino wrote:
It's a shame that Piaggio won't address the problem, especially considering the asking price.
Often lamented by UK owners, but the fact is UK GTS sales are a drop in the ocean compared to Euro sales. It's simply not a big enough issue to get Piaggios attention, sadly.
Enthusiast
agility 125
Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 75
Location: PARIS
Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:42 am quote
I.ve had a brand new GSXR 1000 nicked in a big city...... I know your pain. Fact is, scum bags want your scooter and the law is not effective ( at all ) in stopping them. I dealt with it by not buying a fancy desirable bike or scooter. I roll around on a kymco 125 now and feel comfortable it will be where I left it.

Its just were we live now........

Enthusiast
agility 125
Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 75
Location: PARIS
Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:52 am quote
undying wrote:
that's literally insane. how on earth has scooter thefts gotten that bad over there?
Because there is just no sufficient deterrent to stop people stealing them.
Hooked
2003 ET2 (SOLD); 2004 GT200
Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Posts: 177
Location: Atlanta, GA
Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:51 am quote
What if you didn't chain/lock/immobilize it? Let them take it. When your tracking service notifies you it has been moved, alert the police and have them bust the unsuspecting idiots? Risky, I know, but at this point, it sounds like you're resigned to the fact that it's going to get stolen anyway. Trying a silent alarm/bait scoot might increase the odds of the thieves getting caught.
Ossessionato
X10 350
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: London
Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:56 am quote
everytimeidom wrote:
What if you didn't chain/lock/immobilize it? Let them take it. When your tracking service notifies you it has been moved, alert the police and have them bust the unsuspecting idiots? Risky, I know, but at this point, it sounds like you're resigned to the fact that it's going to get stolen anyway. Trying a silent alarm/bait scoot might increase the odds of the thieves getting caught.
If you don't lock it, your insurance is probably going to void.

If you say that you don't use any locks, the size of any insurance quote would be horrendous, and if you say you lock it and don't......then your insurance won't pay.

In any case, setting up bait is a job for the police...who are facing so many cuts, and dealing with much more serious issues, that this sort of thing isn't a priority for them.
Hooked
2003 ET2 (SOLD); 2004 GT200
Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Posts: 177
Location: Atlanta, GA
Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:20 am quote
Benelli Boy wrote:
If you don't lock it, your insurance is probably going to void.

If you say that you don't use any locks, the size of any insurance quote would be horrendous, and if you say you lock it and don't......then your insurance won't pay.

In any case, setting up bait is a job for the police...who are facing so many cuts, and dealing with much more serious issues, that this sort of thing isn't a priority for them.
I can't speak for insurance policy guidelines in the UK but here in the US, my understanding is a theft is a theft and comprehensive insurance coverage would cover it. I'm not saying leave the key in the ignition, but merely parking it shouldn't be grounds for coverage to be void.

Again, I'm not in a position to speak about UK police priorities, but it seems the OP has had good experiences with the police responding after being contacted by the tracking company. The police might even be interested if given a heads-up. Maybe not, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Ossessionato
X10 350
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 2956
Location: London
Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:46 am quote
everytimeidom wrote:
Benelli Boy wrote:
If you don't lock it, your insurance is probably going to void.

If you say that you don't use any locks, the size of any insurance quote would be horrendous, and if you say you lock it and don't......then your insurance won't pay.

In any case, setting up bait is a job for the police...who are facing so many cuts, and dealing with much more serious issues, that this sort of thing isn't a priority for them.
I can't speak for insurance policy guidelines in the UK but here in the US, my understanding is a theft is a theft and comprehensive insurance coverage would cover it. I'm not saying leave the key in the ignition, but merely parking it shouldn't be grounds for coverage to be void.
However, I AM in the UK and I'm telling you the truth about how our insurance works.
Member
Vespa GTS 300 touring ABS, lx125
Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Bristol UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:27 am quote
Theft
Thank goodness you have a tracker!
I'm in Bristol and I've posted of similar but not quite as disturbing incidents as you are experiencing.
I use pragmasis chains, 16mm and I'm now aware they have gone slightly larger. Always connect to something so that they can't pick it up. All stuff you probably know.
I've spent too much money on locks and chains.
Surely the police could lie in unmarked cars and catch these people?
Problem is, even when caught they won't be punished.
Having experienced similar stuff I know it's bad for sleeping, and sadly I think you'll end up selling.
Vespa theft in London is at a disgraceful level. Without the tracker it would be gone.
I wish you luck whatever you do.
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1428
Location: Finland
Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:23 am quote
What I don't get is the motive to do this:
I would understand (not approve) a joy ride theft. But doing all that trouble for a 1 km joy ride sounds just weird.
I would also understand (again, not approve) really stealing a scoot for some purpose. Then I would understand all the trouble going into a locked storage place etc. But abandoning the stolen scoot after 1 km does not fit into this picture either.

So sorry to hear this anyway, must be really frustrating. A friend of mine once installed a hidden power switch to his antique(almost) moped in order to make it more difficult to just ride away with it. It was just a simple switch, originally designed to be used for marine purposes and in his case, hidden under the seat.
Gobshite Shiva
Kymco Downtown 300i the 'Dolphin Noise'
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 14958
Location: London UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:50 am quote
They abandon the scooters a short distance away to see if there's a tracker in them. They don't want to park it up on an incriminating location if it's going to be tracked.
Addicted
GTS 300 - 'George IV' (KIA) GTS Super 300 - 'George V'
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 681
Location: West London UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:15 am quote
Re: Theft
paulro wrote:
..................
Surely the police could lie in unmarked cars and catch these people?
.................
Yeah, right

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/02/police-numbers-have-been-cut-to-the-bone
Addicted
GTS 300 - 'George IV' (KIA) GTS Super 300 - 'George V'
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 681
Location: West London UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:17 am quote
genie wrote:
t

I only know of one London-based member on this site who hasn't had their Vespa tampered with or stolen.
Who's that then? cos if it ain't me you now know 2
Molto Verboso
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 1428
Location: Finland
Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:36 am quote
genie wrote:
They abandon the scooters a short distance away to see if there's a tracker in them. They don't want to park it up on an incriminating location if it's going to be tracked.
Wow....and I suppose it does help to advertise that "this scoot is tracked", like in houses there are big visible signs that the house has a security system.
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:48 am quote
I hate people who steal. Sad day when you can't have something because it's stolen. Things have to get better, right?
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1779
Location: London
Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:18 am quote
RRider wrote:
A friend of mine once installed a hidden power switch to his antique(almost) moped in order to make it more difficult to just ride away with it.
It wouldn't help. The scooters are "ped-pushed" away so they wouldn't even notice that the bike wouldn't start. Your bike would still get stolen, locks cut, steering lock broken etc. You'd also have to have the bike found so you could repair it and use it again.
RRider wrote:
Wow....and I suppose it does help to advertise that "this scoot is tracked", like in houses there are big visible signs that the house has a security system.
It would probably help as much as it does on houses ... ie not at all. If having a sticker stopped our bikes from being stolen then we'd all have stickers on our bikes - some would be real and some would be false. The thieves wouldn't know (or probably care) which bikes had real trackers. They'd just take them anyway.

What might help is if the tracker company monitored the stolen bike to see where it got moved to after being left for a few days. The police could then raid that location and probably get arrests and find other stolen bikes as well.
judy wrote:
Things have to get better, right?
If Piaggio improve their security then yes else no.
World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 29304

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:25 am quote
R, even if they do thieves will probably still be able to steal it.
Ossessionato
Vespa GTS 'Ruby Roo'
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 2988
Location: London UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:30 am quote
genie wrote:
I only know of one London-based member on this site who hasn't had their Vespa tampered with or stolen.
Who was this lucky member? I'd like to know what they have that the rest of us don't.
Lurker
Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Location: London
Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:53 am quote
Many thanks for all the responses.

On a practical level, I know there isn't much more I can do. Learning that the immobiliser is useless is an eye-opener, I won't be putting any store by that in future.

Whatever wheels I have, I will be building a secure bike shed in front of my house (that was in the offing in any event) but I think I will be switching rides soon. Most likely it will be to a geared bike - I like bikes but in London a scooter really is so handy. However, it looks like the thieves will only allow me to have something I don't want, so the 300 will probably have to go. Gutting to say that, as it's a great ride.

I'm grateful for the various links provided. I'm just annoyed with myself that I only looked now, after the demonstration ride protesting at motorbike theft in London that was held earlier today. I definitely would've gone on that but will look out for future events.

Once again, thanks to all of you.
Addicted
GTS 300 - 'George IV' (KIA) GTS Super 300 - 'George V'
Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Posts: 681
Location: West London UK
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:40 am quote
ashbrook wrote:
genie wrote:
I only know of one London-based member on this site who hasn't had their Vespa tampered with or stolen.
Who was this lucky member? I'd like to know what they have that the rest of us don't.
I hope I'm not tempting fate here but .... if it wasn't me I'm number 2
Hooked
2018 GTS300 Super, 2015 GTS300 Super Sport, Past: LX50, Honda Elite 90, LX150, MP3 250, Suzuki GSX650F
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 486
Location: Boston
Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:14 pm quote
What brand tracker are you using? I'd like to upgrade because my current one is a POS
Lurker
Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Posts: 3
Location: London
Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:43 pm quote
flyingpertyhigh wrote:
What brand tracker are you using? I'd like to upgrade because my current one is a POS
Hi there. If your Boston is in the US (rather than the one in Lincolnshire in the UK), this may not be of much use to you, but my tracker is from Datatool TrakKING (https://trakking.net). Excellent service.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 20982
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:21 pm quote
robinm wrote:
Paperino wrote:
That tracking device/company sounds pretty good, as the recovery appears to be rather quick.
The sad thing is that you usually end up paying for recovery, new locks, damage to bike (steering lock) etc or you end up paying a fortune in raised premiums for your insurance. It's a shame that Piaggio won't address the problem, especially considering the asking price.
how is this a piaggio problem?
Ossessionato
Vespa GTS 'Ruby Roo'
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 2988
Location: London UK
Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:29 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
robinm wrote:
Paperino wrote:
That tracking device/company sounds pretty good, as the recovery appears to be rather quick.
The sad thing is that you usually end up paying for recovery, new locks, damage to bike (steering lock) etc or you end up paying a fortune in raised premiums for your insurance. It's a shame that Piaggio won't address the problem, especially considering the asking price.
how is this a piaggio problem?
Molto Verboso
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Posts: 1779
Location: London
Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:48 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
how is this a piaggio problem?
I'd suggest you read other posts on Vespa's being stolen in London. The kids seem to take a few seconds to push your Vespa away and then spend a couple of minutes to re-key the security system. I understand that it isn't an issue where you live and that London is a den of iniquity etc etc but the real issue is that the bikes are easy to steal and the kids are well aware of this.

It's not that we're talking rocket science here, many other manufacturers have fairly decent security and their bikes are rarely stolen. Here's a relevant post by Jimc in this thread:
jimc wrote:
They *are* changing the ECU. That's the whole point we've been bleating about for the last year or so with all the thefts in London. They change the ECU for one they've had put back to virgin and then coded to their own RFID (even AF1 Racing can do this for YOU) - I suspect they use a separate antenna/decoder with an RFID taped into it. Apparently it only takes two minutes for the lock break and ECU swap before they ride away.

B'stards. And stupid, stupid Piaggio. A separate immobiliser (that also one-time coded the ECU) under the floorboards would have eliminated this style of theft.
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