Malossi 210 build thread - PWK30 tuning / making progress...
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Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1363
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:38 am quote
Yeah. The check on the stand is for checking WOT jetting. To check WOT jetting, it has to be at WOT. If its at half throttle, then you are checking half throttle jetting.

Half throttle should also get to 10000 rpm. I would hope you can get somewhere approaching 9000 rpm in gear. That means half is too rich as well but this will come down as you reduce the main jet. So, still too rich.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:14 pm quote
i might need new trousers if i get to 10000 rpm....
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:46 pm quote
At 150 main, 3/4 now goes to 7800 RPM, solid progress.

Will have a look at the plug this weekend along with moving down to 148 main most likely.

I think the bypass for the fuel pump may still be on the small side. If I ride for a long while and then do an extended downhill, the running gets rich at idle and I have to keep revving it to clean it out. The filter doesn't seem loaded, and it cleans up again afterward. I think I'll probably have to open up my restrictor by 0.5mm diameter again. I'm smaller than most of you with the spark plug nipple.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1363
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:57 pm quote
I think once you sort the richness at 3/4 and WOT, the whole throttle range will lighten up. Sounds like its getting closer though.

Do a very long WOT run before checking the plug. Holding the throttle pinned wide open for a long time can end in disaster, keep listening for pinking and watching CHT.

If the main needs to be richer for WOT and 3/4 is still slow and heavy, then you have the wrong needle.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:03 pm quote
WOT is always richer/lower RPM than 3/4 so far. It seems ok for needle yet. Random plug check says we are not in crazy territory. It isn’t the wot check you mention but I still think we have room based on it and the max rpm at 3/4 and WOT.

C657A5C2-EE79-4BAC-A7D1-57F86EE9036C.jpeg

Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:04 pm quote
Main jet reduced to 148, will report back.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1363
Location: London UK
Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:33 pm quote
oh As I understand it now, the main jet is way too big. If 3/4 revs to 7800 and WOT revs less, drops and gets colder, then still over rich. And quite a lot over rich at that. Could skip 148 and go straight to 145. I think you'll end up at 140. You might need to up your pilot jet once at 140 but it's going to be obvious.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:03 am quote
it's only taken a few years but I think we are close now
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:48 pm quote
I wish I had a dollar for every time you thought you were close now!!!
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:48 pm quote
Yeah me too Ginch!
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7422
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:05 pm quote
I'm about to spring for one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-for-detonation-sensor-klopfsensor-NEW-with-output/183855557123

still not convinced that the knocking really really was knocking.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:06 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'm about to spring for one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-for-detonation-sensor-klopfsensor-NEW-with-output/183855557123

still not convinced that the knocking really really was knocking.
Looks interesting. Is there a sensor? Ah, just saw you need a knock sensor to connect it to. Where do you connect a knock sensor?
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7422
Location: San Francisco
Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:45 am quote
Ginch wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'm about to spring for one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-for-detonation-sensor-klopfsensor-NEW-with-output/183855557123

still not convinced that the knocking really really was knocking.
Looks interesting. Is there a sensor? Ah, just saw you need a knock sensor to connect it to. Where do you connect a knock sensor?
You put the sensor on the end of one of the studs. The one that holds the shroud on would be ideal, with the sensor on the outside.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4761
Location: So Cal
Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:38 am quote
Haha, love the idea of a knock sensor but imagine getting one to actually work on these noisy engines would be a bit of challenge. Mounting it in some meaty part of the cylinder below the head seems like a logical place for it, but I’m sure it would take some experimenting with different sensors, different placements and different noise filters to get it to pick up actual detonation vs other “false knocking” signals. A perfect engineering task for you, Patrick!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:22 am quote
John I tried to work out what your current setup is but got confused. Can you please enlighten me as to which needle & jets you have in there?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:58 am quote
HKJ needle on clip 4
main 148 is next trial, 150 was still rich
42 pilot
18 hole atomizer

I had to look it up myself
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:57 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
HKJ needle on clip 4
main 148 is next trial, 150 was still rich
42 pilot
18 hole atomizer

I had to look it up myself
Ha ha! Thanks for that!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:34 pm quote
John, how much difference is there between the 18 and 20 hole atomiser? Kyajet doesn't include them... what effect do they have on the system? I assume they don't exist in the Keihin OEM world?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3708
Location: San Diego, CA
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:48 am quote
It's hard to say. I've not run the 20 hole. It has 2 more holes but all of the holes are smaller diameter, so I'm guessing it will end up richer than the 18 hole. They help to significantly lean out the middle to top end of the jetting range, particularly at higher RPM. The 18 hole is OKO, the 20/30/40 are Polini, and yes I think you are right that they don't exist in the OEM world. The 30 was way too much atomization, driving me to crazy needles. You are right, Kyajet treats all RPM equally, but this is really an item that changes low RPM vs high RPM. For any given atomizer, kyajet should still show an appropriate change in fueling, but it is not possible to use it to compare across atomizers.

Left to right:
18 hole OKO atomizer from treatland, 20 hole polini, 30 hole polini, 40 hole polini


Last edited by sdjohn on Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6950
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:49 am quote
Thanks. Seems like the 18 hole is a special OKO thing.
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