Modern Vespa

I went to get my gear oil today and was told you can't buy ND 30 anymore in CA. How long has this been true? I assume it's not kosher to run the detergent variety, I think it has to do with the brass, if I remember right. So I guess it's mail order for me unless anyone has a suggestion. I don't know if gear oils are affected also, but an 80w would probably do the job if they are still available.

Btw how much do I need for a p200? I still have about 17oz.

Time to switch to GL-4?

I use Motul Transoil in all mine. Switched to it ~10 years ago after 10 years of using Redline MTL.

17oz will be plenty to fill once, maybe twice.

What is this GL4 you speak of, and where can I get some? Good to know I'm covered for this build. Are the Motul products available at you local stores?

75w90 gl-4 gear oil will work for you. 30wND has the same viscosity as 85w gear oil. Stay away from gl-5 due to additives etching brass. I've also heard of people using Motul transoil 10w30 but don't have experience myself.

John,

Where did you go and hear it was banned?

The nice thing about the motul transoil is that it's designed for a wet clutch (in addition to being a great GL-4 lube), something most gearbox oil does not have to deal with.

Here's a great wiki that Al put together:
Gear Oil for Shifty Vespas

O'Reilly and Autozone were my stops and I got the same story at both.

Thanks for the link oops.

Yup, Peps, O'Reillys and Auto Zone don't sell it anymore. But I just bought some Valvoline ND30 at Napa a couple of months ago. Old stock maybe?

I am using a semi synthetic 10W-40 from ENI cause of the BGM CR clutch. BGM recommends Jaso- MA / MA2 or API GL-4 oil specs for their clutch. Never liked the gear oils, so I went for the 10W-40...

I've dealt with gear oil's god-awful STANK all my life. Discarded gloves and clothes as a result.

At least if there is a leak, a sniff test will reveal if it's a gear box leak.

Bought it at NAPA. GL-4 rating above the red CRC label.

I got this stuff....



Brad Penn (009-7729) Penn Grade 1 Multi-Purpose Classic SAE 80W-90 Gear Oil - 1 Quart

$17.16 on Amazon Prime. It's GL-4, so fine for older Vespas

while any GL-4 will be safe (lube the gears and not eat the brass) getting one that is not too slippery in shear will be nice for the clutch, especially on a tuned engine.

Redline MTL fits in this category with the intent of helping synchromesh gearboxes mesh faster when shifting. While the intent is no the same as the needs of the vespa, the end result is.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPCBEG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Motul Transoil would be the most specifically designed for the conditions in the vespa gearbox. They have a mineral based 10-30 and an ester based 10-40, both are great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZFY2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1

They all cost about the same, MTL can be found at the boy-racer auto parts shops, transoil can be found at many motorcycle shops.

Thanks for all the info! I forgot some of this. It comes up more in the Lambretta world, but I've been out of that for a bit.

That's what I use and I've never had a problem...

These transmissions are pretty hardy. I seriously wonder how fussy they are about oil. We've run $17/qt RP Synchromax in Brownie since day 1 and except for the smell I honestly can't tell any the difference between it and the $5/qt ND30 in our other scoots. Has anyone ever had any firsthand experience with any soft metals actually "eroding" or cork deteriorating solely because they didn't use a "GL-4" spec gear oil?

I'm curious has California actually banned straight 30 wt oil, or is it just that it doesn't sell very well so now nobody carries it?

Seems like ups ground could bring it from somewhere.

As far as running GL5 in a gearbox with brass goes, yes stuff may wear out quicker than normal. We saw it all the time with old Alfa Romeo transmissions wearing out syncro's and sliders about twice as fast as they should.

I doubt the brass content in the scooter is that involved, but I'd stick with GL4 just in case.

The bill:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_778_cfa_20150427_162850_sen_comm.html

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028673/1

Basically oil standards that are obsolete are not to be sold for on highway vehicles.

Any thoughts on using Universal Tractor Oil? I heard it was designed as a single use oil for all things on a farm that uses oil, and i think it's 30 wt.

Looks like the Motul is available at Cycle Gear, which is close enough to me. I also see that Cycle Gear stocks the Maxima MTL gear oils which are also common in Lambrettas these days (Jet200.com stocks it). No need to ship oil then!

I use the Motul Gear 300 in my large frames, and "Fuchs / Silkolene "Medium weight gear oil" in my small frames...

... both have been great on my clutches.. no slipping..

I use the oil formulation that Piaggio recommends for my 2005 PX150 as found in the owners manual. Red Line gear oil MT-85 complies with this forulation. I buy it at Amazon and get free shipping when I buy 2 quarts. It is a full synthetic gear oil.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004D4URV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Why didn't Piaggio recommend this oil for their older vintage bikes? It's simple, this oil did not exist back then.

Vader why do you use one for largeframe and another for smallies?

Any 30 non detergent. Cheapest oil, too.

Hjo, the point of the thread is I can't walk into a store and get that anymore. That's what I tried to do.

Lol. I am an idiot. I thought it was a brand you were mentioning.

I use motul 80w. That's what my local scooter shop sells ... years with no problems.

I run Mobil 1 10w-40 4T Racing Synthetic in my P200's gearbox, and it works fine. I found several bottles on clearance for < $5/qt. several years ago, so about the same price as ND30. My early P2 only takes about 150cc of oil in the gearbox, so I have probably two decades' supply of oil on hand, I guess. No GL rating on the stuff, but if it works well enough in a combined engine/gearbox/wet clutch configuration, it'll probably be OK in this application, too, I think. Available at your local Wal-Mart, but not usually quite so cheap.

John, you will have a revvy engine. Use something better than the ND30...

now you tell me, I already filled it . Are we talking mostly about clutch function here, with your comment? Curious.

Motul Trans-Oil for years. love that stuff.

Most important reason is for the clutch side crank bearing (clutch is secondary reason)...

Gotcha. I'm thinking I'll change it after the break in, maybe. That way I'm sure about leaks, etc. before I go dumping oil away and replacing it.

Hey john, turns out ND30's still available in California. I just picked these up today on the way to work.

In the infinite wisdom of our legislature, it just can't be labeled for use in automobile engines. The label simply says "designed specially for equipment specifying a non-detergent formulation." It carries no API rating. Look for it in the hydraulic pump and compressor section.

What store?

Carquest Auto Parts