ND30 banned in Cali
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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:25 pm quote
I went to get my gear oil today and was told you can't buy ND 30 anymore in CA. How long has this been true? I assume it's not kosher to run the detergent variety, I think it has to do with the brass, if I remember right. So I guess it's mail order for me unless anyone has a suggestion. I don't know if gear oils are affected also, but an 80w would probably do the job if they are still available.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:49 pm quote
Btw how much do I need for a p200? I still have about 17oz.
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7646
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:52 pm quote
Time to switch to GL-4?

I use Motul Transoil in all mine. Switched to it ~10 years ago after 10 years of using Redline MTL.

17oz will be plenty to fill once, maybe twice.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:59 pm quote
What is this GL4 you speak of, and where can I get some? Good to know I'm covered for this build. Are the Motul products available at you local stores?
Member
79 P200E ; 61 VBB
Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 15
Location: Ogden, UT
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:01 pm quote
75w90 gl-4 gear oil will work for you. 30wND has the same viscosity as 85w gear oil. Stay away from gl-5 due to additives etching brass. I've also heard of people using Motul transoil 10w30 but don't have experience myself.
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3839
Location: Oceanside, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:08 pm quote
John,

Where did you go and hear it was banned?
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7646
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:08 pm quote
The nice thing about the motul transoil is that it's designed for a wet clutch (in addition to being a great GL-4 lube), something most gearbox oil does not have to deal with.

Here's a great wiki that Al put together:
Gear Oil for Shifty Vespas
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:12 pm quote
O'Reilly and Autozone were my stops and I got the same story at both.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:14 pm quote
Thanks for the link oops.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5570
Location: So Cal
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:16 pm quote
Yup, Peps, O'Reillys and Auto Zone don't sell it anymore. But I just bought some Valvoline ND30 at Napa a couple of months ago. Old stock maybe?
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2136
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:18 pm quote
I am using a semi synthetic 10W-40 from ENI cause of the BGM CR clutch. BGM recommends Jaso- MA / MA2 or API GL-4 oil specs for their clutch. Never liked the gear oils, so I went for the 10W-40...
Molto Verboso
Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1221
Location: NC, USA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:54 am quote
I've dealt with gear oil's god-awful STANK all my life. Discarded gloves and clothes as a result.

At least if there is a leak, a sniff test will reveal if it's a gear box leak.
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 249
Location: Flatness, TX
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:18 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
What is this GL4 you speak of, and where can I get some? Good to know I'm covered for this build. Are the Motul products available at you local stores?
Bought it at NAPA. GL-4 rating above the red CRC label.

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Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2667
Location: Lock Haven, PA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:55 am quote
I got this stuff....



Brad Penn (009-7729) Penn Grade 1 Multi-Purpose Classic SAE 80W-90 Gear Oil - 1 Quart

$17.16 on Amazon Prime. It's GL-4, so fine for older Vespas
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7646
Location: San Francisco
Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:36 am quote
while any GL-4 will be safe (lube the gears and not eat the brass) getting one that is not too slippery in shear will be nice for the clutch, especially on a tuned engine.

Redline MTL fits in this category with the intent of helping synchromesh gearboxes mesh faster when shifting. While the intent is no the same as the needs of the vespa, the end result is.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPCBEG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Motul Transoil would be the most specifically designed for the conditions in the vespa gearbox. They have a mineral based 10-30 and an ester based 10-40, both are great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZFY2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1

They all cost about the same, MTL can be found at the boy-racer auto parts shops, transoil can be found at many motorcycle shops.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:05 am quote
Thanks for all the info! I forgot some of this. It comes up more in the Lambretta world, but I've been out of that for a bit.
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:56 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
Motul Transoil would be the most specifically designed for the conditions in the vespa gearbox. They have a mineral based 10-30 and an ester based 10-40, both are great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZFY2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1
That's what I use and I've never had a problem...
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5570
Location: So Cal
Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:51 pm quote
These transmissions are pretty hardy. I seriously wonder how fussy they are about oil. We've run $17/qt RP Synchromax in Brownie since day 1 and except for the smell I honestly can't tell any the difference between it and the $5/qt ND30 in our other scoots. Has anyone ever had any firsthand experience with any soft metals actually "eroding" or cork deteriorating solely because they didn't use a "GL-4" spec gear oil?
Member
250GTV
Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 27
Location: Phoenix
Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:58 pm quote
I'm curious has California actually banned straight 30 wt oil, or is it just that it doesn't sell very well so now nobody carries it?

Seems like ups ground could bring it from somewhere.

As far as running GL5 in a gearbox with brass goes, yes stuff may wear out quicker than normal. We saw it all the time with old Alfa Romeo transmissions wearing out syncro's and sliders about twice as fast as they should.

I doubt the brass content in the scooter is that involved, but I'd stick with GL4 just in case.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:17 pm quote
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028673/1

Basically oil standards that are obsolete are not to be sold for on highway vehicles.
Member
250GTV
Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 27
Location: Phoenix
Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:39 pm quote
Any thoughts on using Universal Tractor Oil? I heard it was designed as a single use oil for all things on a farm that uses oil, and i think it's 30 wt.
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:15 pm quote
Looks like the Motul is available at Cycle Gear, which is close enough to me. I also see that Cycle Gear stocks the Maxima MTL gear oils which are also common in Lambrettas these days (Jet200.com stocks it). No need to ship oil then!
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:15 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
Looks like the Motul is available at Cycle Gear, which is close enough to me. I also see that Cycle Gear stocks the Maxima MTL gear oils which are also common in Lambrettas these days (Jet200.com stocks it). No need to ship oil then!
I use the Motul Gear 300 in my large frames, and "Fuchs / Silkolene "Medium weight gear oil" in my small frames...

... both have been great on my clutches.. no slipping..
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:26 pm quote
I use the oil formulation that Piaggio recommends for my 2005 PX150 as found in the owners manual. Red Line gear oil MT-85 complies with this forulation. I buy it at Amazon and get free shipping when I buy 2 quarts. It is a full synthetic gear oil.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004D4URV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Why didn't Piaggio recommend this oil for their older vintage bikes? It's simple, this oil did not exist back then.

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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:54 pm quote
Vader why do you use one for largeframe and another for smallies?
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:43 pm quote
Any 30 non detergent. Cheapest oil, too.

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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:45 pm quote
Hjo, the point of the thread is I can't walk into a store and get that anymore. That's what I tried to do.
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:51 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
Hjo, the point of the thread is I can't walk into a store and get that anymore. That's what I tried to do.
Lol. I am an idiot. I thought it was a brand you were mentioning.

I use motul 80w. That's what my local scooter shop sells ... years with no problems.
Hooked
P200E
Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 353
Location: East Lansing, MI
Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:37 am quote
I run Mobil 1 10w-40 4T Racing Synthetic in my P200's gearbox, and it works fine. I found several bottles on clearance for < $5/qt. several years ago, so about the same price as ND30. My early P2 only takes about 150cc of oil in the gearbox, so I have probably two decades' supply of oil on hand, I guess. No GL rating on the stuff, but if it works well enough in a combined engine/gearbox/wet clutch configuration, it'll probably be OK in this application, too, I think. Available at your local Wal-Mart, but not usually quite so cheap.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2136
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:00 am quote
John, you will have a revvy engine. Use something better than the ND30...
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:05 am quote
SaFiS wrote:
John, you will have a revvy engine. Use something better than the ND30...
now you tell me, I already filled it . Are we talking mostly about clutch function here, with your comment? Curious.
Addicted
74 Rally 200. 79 P-whatever
Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 570
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:07 am quote
Motul Trans-Oil for years. love that stuff.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2136
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:07 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
now you tell me, I already filled it . Are we talking mostly about clutch function here, with your comment? Curious.
Most important reason is for the clutch side crank bearing (clutch is secondary reason)...
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:13 am quote
Gotcha. I'm thinking I'll change it after the break in, maybe. That way I'm sure about leaks, etc. before I go dumping oil away and replacing it.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5570
Location: So Cal
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:31 am quote
Hey john, turns out ND30's still available in California. I just picked these up today on the way to work.

In the infinite wisdom of our legislature, it just can't be labeled for use in automobile engines. The label simply says "designed specially for equipment specifying a non-detergent formulation." It carries no API rating. Look for it in the hydraulic pump and compressor section.

ND30.JPG

Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4572
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:35 am quote
What store?
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5570
Location: So Cal
Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:43 am quote
Carquest Auto Parts
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