OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
I went to get my gear oil today and was told you can't buy ND 30 anymore in CA. How long has this been true? I assume it's not kosher to run the detergent variety, I think it has to do with the brass, if I remember right. So I guess it's mail order for me unless anyone has a suggestion. I don't know if gear oils are affected also, but an 80w would probably do the job if they are still available.
|
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
UTC
quote
Time to switch to GL-4?
I use Motul Transoil in all mine. Switched to it ~10 years ago after 10 years of using Redline MTL. 17oz will be plenty to fill once, maybe twice. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
What is this GL4 you speak of, and where can I get some? Good to know I'm covered for this build. Are the Motul products available at you local stores?
|
|
UTC
quote
75w90 gl-4 gear oil will work for you. 30wND has the same viscosity as 85w gear oil. Stay away from gl-5 due to additives etching brass. I've also heard of people using Motul transoil 10w30 but don't have experience myself.
|
Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5073 Location: Oceanside, CA |
|
UTC
quote
The nice thing about the motul transoil is that it's designed for a wet clutch (in addition to being a great GL-4 lube), something most gearbox oil does not have to deal with.
Here's a great wiki that Al put together: Gear Oil for Shifty Vespas |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7070 Location: So Cal |
UTC
quote
Yup, Peps, O'Reillys and Auto Zone don't sell it anymore. But I just bought some Valvoline ND30 at Napa a couple of months ago. Old stock maybe?
|
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4113 Location: Veria, Greece |
UTC
quote
I am using a semi synthetic 10W-40 from ENI cause of the BGM CR clutch. BGM recommends Jaso- MA / MA2 or API GL-4 oil specs for their clutch. Never liked the gear oils, so I went for the 10W-40...
|
|
UTC
quote
I've dealt with gear oil's god-awful STANK all my life. Discarded gloves and clothes as a result.
At least if there is a leak, a sniff test will reveal if it's a gear box leak. |
Drama Free
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 369 Location: Flatness, TX |
UTC
quote
sdjohn wrote: What is this GL4 you speak of, and where can I get some? Good to know I'm covered for this build. Are the Motul products available at you local stores? |
|
UTC
quote
I got this stuff....
Brad Penn (009-7729) Penn Grade 1 Multi-Purpose Classic SAE 80W-90 Gear Oil - 1 Quart $17.16 on Amazon Prime. It's GL-4, so fine for older Vespas |
|
UTC
quote
while any GL-4 will be safe (lube the gears and not eat the brass) getting one that is not too slippery in shear will be nice for the clutch, especially on a tuned engine.
Redline MTL fits in this category with the intent of helping synchromesh gearboxes mesh faster when shifting. While the intent is no the same as the needs of the vespa, the end result is. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPCBEG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 Motul Transoil would be the most specifically designed for the conditions in the vespa gearbox. They have a mineral based 10-30 and an ester based 10-40, both are great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZFY2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1 They all cost about the same, MTL can be found at the boy-racer auto parts shops, transoil can be found at many motorcycle shops. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
Thanks for all the info! I forgot some of this. It comes up more in the Lambretta world, but I've been out of that for a bit.
|
RIP
|
UTC
quote
oopsclunkthud wrote: Motul Transoil would be the most specifically designed for the conditions in the vespa gearbox. They have a mineral based 10-30 and an ester based 10-40, both are great. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0022ZFY2A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1 |
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7070 Location: So Cal |
UTC
quote
These transmissions are pretty hardy. I seriously wonder how fussy they are about oil. We've run $17/qt RP Synchromax in Brownie since day 1 and except for the smell I honestly can't tell any the difference between it and the $5/qt ND30 in our other scoots. Has anyone ever had any firsthand experience with any soft metals actually "eroding" or cork deteriorating solely because they didn't use a "GL-4" spec gear oil?
|
|
UTC
quote
I'm curious has California actually banned straight 30 wt oil, or is it just that it doesn't sell very well so now nobody carries it?
Seems like ups ground could bring it from somewhere. As far as running GL5 in a gearbox with brass goes, yes stuff may wear out quicker than normal. We saw it all the time with old Alfa Romeo transmissions wearing out syncro's and sliders about twice as fast as they should. I doubt the brass content in the scooter is that involved, but I'd stick with GL4 just in case. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4028673/1
Basically oil standards that are obsolete are not to be sold for on highway vehicles. |
|
UTC
quote
Any thoughts on using Universal Tractor Oil? I heard it was designed as a single use oil for all things on a farm that uses oil, and i think it's 30 wt.
|
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
Looks like the Motul is available at Cycle Gear, which is close enough to me. I also see that Cycle Gear stocks the Maxima MTL gear oils which are also common in Lambrettas these days (Jet200.com stocks it). No need to ship oil then!
|
RIP
|
UTC
quote
sdjohn wrote: Looks like the Motul is available at Cycle Gear, which is close enough to me. I also see that Cycle Gear stocks the Maxima MTL gear oils which are also common in Lambrettas these days (Jet200.com stocks it). No need to ship oil then! ... both have been great on my clutches.. no slipping.. |
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: UTC
Posts: 320 Location: Central Ohio |
UTC
quote
I use the oil formulation that Piaggio recommends for my 2005 PX150 as found in the owners manual. Red Line gear oil MT-85 complies with this forulation. I buy it at Amazon and get free shipping when I buy 2 quarts. It is a full synthetic gear oil.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004D4URV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Why didn't Piaggio recommend this oil for their older vintage bikes? It's simple, this oil did not exist back then. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845 Location: San Francisco, CA |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
Hjo, the point of the thread is I can't walk into a store and get that anymore. That's what I tried to do.
|
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845 Location: San Francisco, CA |
UTC
quote
sdjohn wrote: Hjo, the point of the thread is I can't walk into a store and get that anymore. That's what I tried to do. I use motul 80w. That's what my local scooter shop sells ... years with no problems. |
|
UTC
quote
I run Mobil 1 10w-40 4T Racing Synthetic in my P200's gearbox, and it works fine. I found several bottles on clearance for < $5/qt. several years ago, so about the same price as ND30. My early P2 only takes about 150cc of oil in the gearbox, so I have probably two decades' supply of oil on hand, I guess. No GL rating on the stuff, but if it works well enough in a combined engine/gearbox/wet clutch configuration, it'll probably be OK in this application, too, I think. Available at your local Wal-Mart, but not usually quite so cheap.
|
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4113 Location: Veria, Greece |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
SaFiS wrote: John, you will have a revvy engine. Use something better than the ND30... |
|
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4113 Location: Veria, Greece |
UTC
quote
sdjohn wrote: now you tell me, I already filled it . Are we talking mostly about clutch function here, with your comment? Curious. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
Gotcha. I'm thinking I'll change it after the break in, maybe. That way I'm sure about leaks, etc. before I go dumping oil away and replacing it.
|
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7070 Location: So Cal |
UTC
quote
Hey john, turns out ND30's still available in California. I just picked these up today on the way to work.
In the infinite wisdom of our legislature, it just can't be labeled for use in automobile engines. The label simply says "designed specially for equipment specifying a non-detergent formulation." It carries no API rating. Look for it in the hydraulic pump and compressor section. |
OP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8147 Location: San Diego, CA |
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7070 Location: So Cal |
Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.