From Dreamer to Owner, now what?
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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:47 pm quote
Earlier this week. A balmy 40 degrees in Mpls (after a lowly 6 last week), windy, but a teensy peek of sun. Okay. Going riding. Need to. To clear my head. Bundle, bundle up. Riding happily along, lakeside. Oops, missed the turn toward home.....Yeah, right. Lie. Blue just couldnít quite end it yet. Me neither.

Foolish greedy girls. A few minutes after we skipped our turn home, the engine died. Putt, puttttt, putttttttt. Done. Coasted to a fortunately located parking lot.

So, sitting there in the wind, thinking about what to do. I decide to change out the plug. Start there because itís easy. And I had a fresh one. Plus the necessary tools. And because Iíve been kicking at least 30+ times to start up for the last month. Maybe......itís just that simple.

Oh, Yikes! That plug looks nasty! Actually hate to show this picture. Feel like a bad mom with a filthy neglected child. There must be a big problem here, but not sure what?

Hey, though. I can change that out. No biggie. Do it. Starts great afterwards. Goodie. Roar outta the parking lot with sense of pride. Oooh, I fixed something. Grunt. Too soon though. Engine dies within 10 seconds. Try again. Kick... GO, GO, GO!!!!..... die..... coast..... Kick ....GO, GO, GO!!!!....die...... coast.... and so on, forever.

Repeated this pattern 390 times, riding very recklessly, trying to maximize the GO! part of the cycle.

Arrived home finally. Only had to push for half a block. Tucked Blue cozy into the garage. Not sure where to start......

pretty please? your kind advice?? why in the world is the plug so yucky?

Many thanks in advance.

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Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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Location: Oceanside/ SF
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:14 pm quote
Bummer times Mom! Iíd focus on either spark or fuel. Could be an electrical problem or could be a fuel starvation problem.

Question 1: Do you have a black plastic cap that goes on the spark plug or is it one of the brass Y shaped prongs that hold it? If its the brass Y make sure that is crimped tight and holding on well.
2. Have you ever messed with your kill switch on the handlebars? The little button on the side that kills the motor connects to a red wire probably. That switch or the wiring could be having problems. An easy check is to disconnect the red kill wires in the junction box.
3. Now were getting serious but Iíd say get a multimeter and start checking points/ condensers behind the flywheel. Worst option!

Switching to fuel
Question 1: Is there plenty of good fuel in the tank?
2. Have you ever cleaned the carb?
3. Do you understand how the fuel tap works?
4. Are you willing to get dirty and spill a little gas on the ground? An easy check to confirm fuel flow is to disconnect the banjo from the carb and make sure the tap is working on/ off/ reserve.

Let us all know.

Last edited by MJRally on Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:16 pm quote
Just putting the icky plug on this page, too. Coal for Christmas, says Santa.

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Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:19 pm quote
Well done getting your hands dirty!

Focus on the bottom of it where the electrodes go into the motor. You want that chocolate brown at a minimum but darker is better.
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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:41 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
Bummer times Mom! Iíd focus on either spark or fuel. Could be an electrical problem or could be a fuel starvation problem.

Question 1: Do you have a black plastic cap that goes on the spark plug or is it one of the brass Y shaped prongs that hold it? If its the brass Y make sure that is crimped tight and holding on well.
2. Have you ever messed with your kill switch on the handlebars? The little button on the side that kills the motor connects to a red wire probably. That switch or the wiring could be having problems. An easy check is to disconnect the red kill wires in the junction box.
3. Now were getting serious but Iíd say get a multimeter and start checking points/ condensers behind the flywheel. Worst option!

Switching to fuel
Question 1: Is there plenty of good fuel in the tank?
2. Have you ever cleaned the carb?
3. Do you understand how the fuel tap works?
4. Are you willing to get dirty and spill a little gas on the ground? An easy check to confirm fuel flow is to disconnect the banjo from the carb and make sure the tap is working on/ off/ reserve.

Let us all know.
MJóthanks, much, for all the options.

Spark Answers:
Q1: brass clip is tight and seems sturdy.
Q2: kill switch seems to work reliably. Hasnít changed since I was owner.
Q3: multimeter, points, condenser, flywheel? Worst option? Yes, I can see that....clueless on these items.

Fuel Answers:
Q1: cleaned carb?






no (very small voice) sorry

Q2: do I understand the fuel tap? Well, not completely. I know that if I donít pull out the choke, the engine wonít start. And the choke feels kinda tentative. I know ideally how the petcock works. But, it may be faulty in my case. Cause sometimes if I turn the fuel off and try to run it out, so as to not gunk up the carb in cold weather, the fuel never runs out. But, sometimes it does, so.....????

Q3: yes, willing to get dirty. Suspecting a fuel issue. Not sure how to disconnect banjo and test.

Thank you lots for all your suggestions! Appreciate!
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Location: Oceanside/ SF
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:03 pm quote
No problem-o.

Electrical- when you can, try this- On the top of the motor is a black plastic electrical junction box. Itís the size of a small tangerine. Thereís one screw in the top. Undo that and then get your phone and take a picture of all the colors. Then find the red wires. They all tie together in one spot. Thereís one coming out of the motor (stator), one going to the red electrical coil at the rear of the motor and one going into the frame. Disconnect the one going into the frame but then connect the two remaining. Try starting the scooter like normal.

Youíre essentially hot wiring your bike and disconnecting the harness and kill switch. The good thing is this will help you test if you have a wiring problem. The bad thing is you wont be able to turn off the motor with the switch like youre used to. You can play Mr. Wizard and push and hold the disconnected wire back onto the other two and that contact will make the button work again. Use a screwdriver or pliars so you dont get zapped. Itíll buzz your hand pretty good but wont do any damage. If that doesnt work, hop on the scooter and stall it out in gear.

If by disconnecting the red wire it magically works consistently youíve solved your problem. Itís an electrical problem and its shorting somewhere. More to that later.

Switching topics, as far as the fuel tap, think of it like the water faucet. Youíve got off, on, and reserve. Off is off, On is warm water (cold and hot together), Reserve is just straight cold water. The handle you turn goes to your fuel tap and controls essentially little straws in the fuel tank at 3 different heights. As you use up gas, one straw sucks air so you have to switch to the next straw which under the new level of the gas. Down the level goes until you run out of gas or refill the tank.

If you have plenty of gas in the fuel tank you can disconnect the banjo off the carburetor (weíll get you pictures and walk throughs and stuff) and then test that youre at least getting some fuel from the tank. If you turn on, expect fuel. If you get nothing, you might have a clog/ pinch/ the water faucet is messed up. This has nothing to do with the choke being pulled.

Baby steps.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4078
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:51 pm quote
It sure sounds like a fuel problem,maybe at the filter or the tap needs rebuilding, It also sounds like the float bowl is slowly getting filled enough to run the scoot for a few minutes, It would be comparable to forgetting to turn the fuel tap on when starting and starving the carb a block later, then it quits. MJrally has some good points, follow them and you should be good to go.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:03 pm quote
Here's a SIP tutorial on spark issues. It's pretty informative. And unless you understand German, click on the "subtitles" icon. And mind your fingernails!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VwRCAHT_XY&t=5s
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7410
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:12 am quote
ouch
At least you had your tool kit with you and tuffed it out to get home instead of yelling for help and a truck. Good one, you got grit!

So you are getting the best advice already, but when you try again, you want to know if you can, is it GAS or is it SPARK. I want to guess gas, coz it fired up when you put in a fresh? plug. Here's the EASIEST way I know to START looking for a lack of fuel problem.

First take that black cover off the airbox and then remove the filter. Should look a lot like this picture. Now you close your gas tap then loosen the 'banjo' fitting bolt Malcolm mentioned at 1 with a 10mm wrench, then slowly open the tap to see if gas starts running out of the loosened fitting. If it does, you at least have gas to the carb and make sure you tank has plenty in it too. Next, close tap and remove that round cap at 2 and check the screen filter under it for clogging. If it is, you need to carefully pry it out and clean it.

Next we can tell you how to test for spark if all that carb stuff seems good so far, before you need to pull it for cleaning or something. Best is wrap a piece of baling wire around the connected spark plug base and hook it up to ground somewhere(maybe the cowl bracket, doesn't need good contact), kick it over & watch for spark at the plug(don't unintentionally ground the hot end). EZ to kick over w/ the plug out. Simple, but do NOT hold the wire please or you'll get a funny little surprise, clench.

If that's all good, we know of HUNDREDS of other things you can check too.

Image1.jpg

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Central Ohio
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:26 pm quote
My brother has a 1965 VBB that was very difficult to start. It took many kicks to get it started. Then he had a CDI ignition installed and it now starts in the first three kicks.

Your start and die issue sounds like a fuel problem. Try pouring a little fuel down into the carb throat and then try to start it. If it fires right up and then quits, you have a fuel supply problem.

As for your plug, install a new one and torque it properly. I torque mine to 16 1/2 ft lbs. You seem to have some blow by your on the plug.

Good luck.
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Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4078
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:38 pm quote
If you stay on top of these scoots, it should never take more than a few kicks to light 'em up. Heck, I prefer points and condensers on non-performance scoots. CDIs, while being technologically better, have their own problems. Meanwhile this is a simple fuel delivery problem and should not take long to sort out. But being a parent of four does not leave you with much free time, if any, as may of us know. It will get fixed, and you will be riding again. Darn it, I wish I lived closer, I'd be happy to help. Good luck
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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:49 am quote
Thank you MJ, V oodoo, RB, whodat, and Tierney. You have all given me great detailed advice. Really appreciate how you break it down into easy steps for me to follow. I had a little bit of time this afternoon for scooter maintenance. My kids have finally achieved ďalone in the houseĒ independent status. So Iím able to work in the driveway without fear of them killing themselves or each other. This is what freedom feels like. Right, Tierney?

I started out checking the banjo screw for fuel flow and it seemed to work properly. Sadly, there was no tiny wooden banjo hiding down in the carb as I was half expecting. After dealing with this small disappointment, I loosened the screw, turned the tap on and saw fuel spill in about 3 seconds. Good deal.

Then I turned my my attention to screw #2 per V oodooís diagram. Here I ran into trouble. My screwdriver wouldnít engage properly, because the frame angle. And it was screwed in reeeally tight. So, I tried many other devices. Mini screwdriver x 2, penny, dime, wrench, random rusty weird gappy gauge thingy, pliers, vice grip, my puny fingers, et al. No go. Could not budge the stupid screw. Worked at this for over 29 minutes. About called it a day and gave up. Because my language was getting really iffy and I was super frustrated. Then, I realized I was trying to turn it clockwise. Yah, the wrong way. Guess Iím a total idiot, but whatever. My screw is totally massacred now. Oh well. I got it unscrewed and checked the filter underneath. Looked decent. A few fibery strands caught in it, but no cruddy stuff. So, prob not that.

Took the electrical box cover off and read your test plan, MJ. But, I have no idea how to disconnect the wires. Do I unscrew the brass looking screw? Then untangle the wires from the screw? And then just bend the desired ones back into place? Iím waiting on this until next time.

Re-gapped my plug because I wasnít sure of the right measurement when I changed it out on the road. It wasnít far off.

By this time, my fingers were frozen, my time was run out, and my patience was thin. So I just put things back together and put the cowl back on (couldnít even clip it with my stiff fingers). Thought Iíd try to kick it once before I put it away. 30 kicks. Nope. So discouraging.

On a little hunch, thinking of your 3-straw explanation, MJ, I turned the petcock to reserve and tried to kick it again. Whoa!!! Roarrrrr! It WORKED!!!! SO exciting! Until fuel started pouring out the bottom. It leaked a lot initially. 12 inch diameter puddle in one minute. Then, as I tested various things, I noticed it didnít leak while running. Only after engine was killed. If I left it on reserve after engine was shut off, it dripped consistently every second. If I turned the tap off, it dripped for about a minute, then quit.

I rode it around the block in my coveralls. It seemed to run and idle fine. Yes, it leaked fuel when I parked, but not much after tap was turned off. One thing that was fun for me was running the engine with the carb open for viewing. Ohhhh. I see now what the throttle does and how itís attached by a cable to the headset and how that cable seems to open a valve to let air into the carb to make it roar louder. And how the fuel trickles slowly into the corner of the carb. So interesting. Almost got my hair caught in the flywheel, I was looking so closely.

Anyway, I think my problem is fuel lines, not spark. Not exactly sure where to go from here. But, I would suspect that there may be a blockage in the main fuel line. Would anyone concur with this suspicion?

Thanks for helping me out. Iím just glad sheís somewhat rideable, even in her leaky state. That means next week when it hits 40 degrees, I can hopefully snag one more little ride.

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'66 Super 150
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Posts: 516
Location: MN
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:50 am quote
Electrical

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'66 Super 150
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:51 am quote
Filter

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'66 Super 150
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:53 am quote
Massacre

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Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:54 am quote
Fuel leak

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Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:09 am quote
K-

Nice job sleuthing.

Item #1. Fuel banjo. Sorry it wasnt a real banjo. It does resemble the shape of one though!

Item #2. Screw #2 at the top of the carb that Voodoo said to unscrew. Before you go ride again that needs to be tight tight. If not, fuel will just constantly leak out of the top there and you'll either drip gas until you run out of it, or your carb will starve of fuel and sputter like its doing. No fun. Do you have a neighbor with tools that you can borrow a longer screwdriver to try and tighten it? If not, we can show you the two carb securing bolts that you can remove to tilt the carb to a better angle.

Item #3 The electrical box. So there are brass screws holding the eyelets in place. If you ever have electrical issues, unscrew the screw on just the red wires specifically and then push aside the red wire to the right of your picture. Leave it outside the plastic cover where its not touching any other wire. You definitely dont need to bend or cut anything, just unscrew it. Youre hot wiring your own bike at that point. My friends VBB is really temperamental so rather than fix the problem, we just use that method when it acts up

Item #4
Great job understanding the fuel tap/ straws. Forgive me if you did this, but have you looked in the gas tank to see how full it is? Is it to the top, or can you easily see the top of the plastic tap strainer? Its about the size of a quarter and is either white or black colored plastic.

Item #5
IF your fuel level is topped off and your tap turned to ON and youre not getting any fuel at the carb, then yes you could assume the straw for ON is plugged. Some people would try to fix the tap but entire replacements are around $20 and the specialty wrench to do it is another $20. Ask Sandy Claws for cash if this does turn out to be your problem OR, just always drive on reserve until you can work on it.

Item #6
Dont get your hair in the flywheel, install the cover on the electrical box, tighten screw #2 on the carb, look for leaks and if good, go for another ride.
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BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:16 am quote
MJRally, could a sticky float valve in the carb be another source of the fuel leak?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1856

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:26 am quote
A 90 degree screwdriver is your friend if you have to remove the "chinamen's hat" (carb top cover). They should cost well less than $5. Any hardware store will have them. Ace, True Value, Homo Depo, Lowes, ect...
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4078
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:20 am quote
Freedom? What freedom? It never stops... I'm kidding, of course. The kids will get more independent as they get older, with the older ones helping out the younger ones. And that's what you want, right? Kids that can think for themselves and stand on their own two feet? But you do get these little slices of time - freedom, as you call it, and you are using the time well. Anywho, back to the scoot. As surmised, it was/is a fuel delivery problem. Your leak is most likely coming from some thing you loosened up, so that's an easy fix. The fuel shut off is working, thankfully, but you will need a new tap or rebuild the one on there. You will have to drain all the gas anyway to do it either way and that will give you a good chance to check out the inside of the tank and give it a good clean. If the gasket between the tank and tap looks good, you can just rebuild it. If you want to replace, you'll need a specific wrench for it, or in a pinch, a basin wrench will work, but it may mangle the nut some. When you order the parts you want, get a new fuel line and clamps as well. Most scoot shops sell the tygon line which better than the autozone rubbish. This should take a couple hours the first time, but can be done in stages as "freedom" allows. Kudos to you for getting your hands dirty.

Last edited by Tierney on Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 63 Li125, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3305
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:10 am quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
MJRally, could a sticky float valve in the carb be another source of the fuel leak?
Itís rare but it absolutely could. The air vent for the float chamber is right next to the banjo and if it sticks. Itíll dump fuel there.

Since the OP was messing with the banjo and China mans hat screws Iíd lean towards those being the source of the fuel leak.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7410
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:17 am quote
Tierney wrote:
Freedom? What freedom? It never stops...

Kudos to you for getting your hands dirty.
Wrong.

But that's about the only part I have to disagree with. But here's a thought from our good TnG friend JKJ that just jogged my memory on the leak and maybe even the original problem?
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
MJRally, could a sticky float valve in the carb be another source of the fuel leak?
What if the float needle tip is still black rubber instead of red? The ethanol in the gas will turn it to crumbs... So Miz K32, you may next need to pull the whole damned lid off that tiny carb you got. This will be the part that the round lidded filter is inside of. There are two screws holding it on, but stock screws have hex heads, so a quarter inch drive socket will get it off if a screwdriver angle is not gonna work here even worse. 8mm?

Once again remove that guitar bolt thingie and all the way out this time. When you get those two screws out of the "float bowl lid" in technical jargon, and lift it straight up and out, you will see a small plastic bubble that floats up and down, automatically turning the gas on and off as needed. It does this by pushing on a little metal shaft like thing with a sharp little rubber nose that closes and opens a little hole for the gas to fall through(gravity feed, no fuel pump) into the float bowl as it's called. Now your little bitty 20/17 can sip all the gas it wants directly from this reservoir, there just for that reason and off you ride into the sunset. But keep your hair AWAY from the flywheel, please!

But wait! it looks like your float needle tip might be the original BLACK? Well curses if it is, best get a red one quick and swap them coz ethanol loves to eat black.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2880
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:18 am quote
MJRally wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
MJRally, could a sticky float valve in the carb be another source of the fuel leak?
Itís rare but it absolutely could. The air vent for the float chamber is right next to the banjo and if it sticks. Itíll dump fuel there.

Since the OP was messing with the banjo and China mans hat screws Iíd lean towards those being the source of the fuel leak.
Thanks! I've offered tools or assistance if she wants it, but it looks like she's doing fine.
Molto Verboso
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 1181

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:34 am quote
Well Kimono this was such an interesting read from the first you received Blue to now getting to know Blue via having to troubleshoot it. That is one beautiful bike , Iím glad you didnít do the upgrades on it, runs/ran good and will give you many years of enjoyment.
Banned
2:6
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Location: San Francisco
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:51 pm quote
I have a bunch of floats and float needles, could drop one in the post on monday if you need.
Hooked
1984 PX(177)EFL
Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 207
Location: Cornwall UK
Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:55 pm quote
Hi Kimono, I've followed your progress and adventures, but never said hello before.

I thought it might help to know what you're going to see before you take the float bowl lid off.
I like to keep the banjo (30) on the fuel line, and unscrew that from the lid Ė the bolt (27) is easier to re-fit than the fuel clip in that confined space. If you do, then keep the little gaskets (26)(29) to re-use for now, but preferably replace them with new as soon as you can. Next job is the two top bolts (17)(25); look out for little spring washers (18 ), which you'll need to re-use. Then you can draw the whole thing out; hopefully the gasket (31) won't be stuck, but you can probably re-use and replace when you can get one. You then have to push the float pin (28 ) through to release the float (45) and needle (41) ; you'll notice how the needle sits in a groove in the float arm, so it drops as float drops, and travels up in that brass tube to seal the fuel flow when float rises as bowl fills.
The rubber tip on that should be red; old ones were black. It must be red, and it must not be worn; if you've come this far you might as well fit a new one anyway. The float should be undamaged and contain no fuel; any hint of damage/cracks/leaks and sling it out for a new one. All parts are replaceable; you can probably get an overhaul pack with all the bits you'd need to give it a bit of a service.

Good luck with it; you already know that all these little jobs, once tackled, add to your mental tool bag for all the adventures to come.

carb exploded.jpg

Hooked
1964 GS160, 1966 90ss
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 236

Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:33 pm quote
You may have just solved your problem by dinking about with it. It sounds like you just need the carb cap tightened down to stop the leak. If you do decide to overhaul the carb, the gas will make short work of those gloves. Some thicker ones will help.

Hair in the flywheel? That's something I will never have to worry about.
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Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:38 pm quote
So, any how, in the end was it it just low fuel or the tap not working on the run (up) position. Inquiring minds want to know
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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:59 pm quote
Tierney wrote:
So, any how, in the end was it it just low fuel or the tap not working on the run (up) position. Inquiring minds want to know
Iíll have a driveway report after I get those crazy kids in bed for the night
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 286
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:49 pm quote
Taking the float out is very easy. Remove the banjo and be careful not to lose the little gaskets. Then remove the two screws holing the float bowl assembly. One is long and one is short. Once these two bolts are out, gently remove the float bowl assembly. Take it in the warm house to work on it. Remove the top screw so the round cap can be removed. Caution, there will be fuel in the sediment chamber under the litty round filter. If the gasket is rubber it may be distorted due to swelling. Lift out the filter being careful not to damage it. Clean out the sediment area under the filter with carb cleaner (do this outside). Then blow out everything with compressed air which you can get at Staples or Office Max. Remove the float and clean the needle with the red tip. Put it back together being careful that the gasket under the cap is properly seated. If it is not, fuel will pour out and end up on the ground. While tightening down the cap screw, turn the cap a little to help seat it. Put the float bowl assembly back on and tighten down the two bolts. Reconnect the banjo loosely and turn on the fuel tap to see if fuel comes out around the banjo gaskets. If so, tighten down the banjo bolt. Check for leaks with the fuel tap on. If none, you are good to go.
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'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 516
Location: MN
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:08 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
K-


Item #2. Screw #2 at the top of the carb that Voodoo said to unscrew. Before you go ride again that needs to be tight tight. If not, fuel will just constantly leak out of the top there and you'll either drip gas until you run out of it, or your carb will starve of fuel and sputter like its doing.

Item #4
......have you looked in the gas tank to see how full it is? Is it to the top, or can you easily see the top of the plastic tap strainer? Its about the size of a quarter and is either white or black colored
Thanks, MJ. Two great tips here.

Item #2

Screws must be screwed down tightly? Oops. I like to leave them kinda loose, so itís not so hard for me to unscrew next time. This would apply to the chinamanís hat screw, the banjo screw, the spark plug..... I re-tightened all of them. And Iím sure I chewed up a red gasket or two yesterday with my brutal mechanical skills. Should replace.


Item #4

How much gas is in the tank? Not that much. I could see the white thingy sticking out high and dry. But, there was prob 2 inches of fuel left. I like to run it low so Iím not mixing much old fuel with new fuel. Was able to add 2.25 gallons today. Up to the very tippy top. Perfect! Right????

No. Perfectly dumb. Cause now itís all leaking out the bottom.


Great details, thank you!
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:10 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
A 90 degree screwdriver is your friend if you have to remove the "chinamen's hat" (carb top cover). They should cost well less than $5. Any hardware store will have them. Ace, True Value, Homo Depo, Lowes, ect...
Right angle screwdrivers? Who woulda thunk there was such a thing? Yay!!! So easy-peasy! $3.99 is bargain of the year. Thank you!

D4959F06-76BE-45A8-99D2-C84376E5FCB0.jpeg

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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:18 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
What if the float needle tip is still black rubber instead of red? The ethanol in the gas will turn it to crumbs... So Miz K32, you may next need to pull the whole damned lid off that tiny carb you got. This will be the part that the round lidded filter is inside of. There are two screws holding it on, but stock screws have hex heads, so a quarter inch drive socket will get it off if a screwdriver angle is not gonna work here even worse. 8mm?

Once again remove that guitar bolt thingie and all the way out this time. When you get those two screws out of the "float bowl lid" in technical jargon, and lift it straight up and out, you will see a small plastic bubble that floats up and down, automatically turning the gas on and off as needed. It does this by pushing on a little metal shaft like thing with a sharp little rubber nose that closes and opens a little hole for the gas to fall through(gravity feed, no fuel pump) into the float bowl as it's called. Now your little bitty 20/17 can sip all the gas it wants directly from this reservoir, there just for that reason and off you ride into the sunset. But keep your hair AWAY from the flywheel, please!

But wait! it looks like your float needle tip might be the original BLACK? Well curses if it is, best get a red one quick and swap them coz ethanol loves to eat black.
Ethanol is ruining stuff? What? I only cheated a few times......cry. Iíve been faithful to E-free for most of my ownership, but have slummed with regular a few times. I tried to unscrew the guitar/banjo/fiddle/ukulele screw completely as instructed, and fuel started spilling in a little waterfall all over the place. It would not quit. Tap was off. Tried it three times. I was sitting in a puddle of fuel by that time, getting a little high on fumes. Gave up on this venture. Thereís got to be a way to make the fuel stop pouring out, right? Thanks, V oodoo, for all your help.

You canít really see in this pic, but gas is running everywhere.

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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:20 pm quote
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
MJRally wrote:
JKJ-FZ6 wrote:
MJRally, could a sticky float valve in the carb be another source of the fuel leak?
Itís rare but it absolutely could. The air vent for the float chamber is right next to the banjo and if it sticks. Itíll dump fuel there.

Since the OP was messing with the banjo and China mans hat screws Iíd lean towards those being the source of the fuel leak.
Thanks! I've offered tools or assistance if she wants it, but it looks like she's doing fine.
JKJóas always, thank you for being so generous with your tools and time. Youíve saved my bacon more than once. I may be calling you....
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:22 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I have a bunch of floats and float needles, could drop one in the post on monday if you need.
what a great offer! Iíd be super happy to pay you whatever they are worth plus post. I have a feeling I probably need to rebuild/replace. Thanks!
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:26 pm quote
sime66 wrote:
Hi Kimono, I've followed your progress and adventures, but never said hello before.

I thought it might help to know what you're going to see before you take the float bowl lid off.
I like to keep the banjo (30) on the fuel line, and unscrew that from the lid Ė the bolt (27) is easier to re-fit than the fuel clip in that confined space. If you do, then keep the little gaskets (26)(29) to re-use for now, but preferably replace them with new as soon as you can. Next job is the two top bolts (17)(25); look out for little spring washers (18 ), which you'll need to re-use. Then you can draw the whole thing out; hopefully the gasket (31) won't be stuck, but you can probably re-use and replace when you can get one. You then have to push the float pin (28 ) through to release the float (45) and needle (41) ; you'll notice how the needle sits in a groove in the float arm, so it drops as float drops, and travels up in that brass tube to seal the fuel flow when float rises as bowl fills.
The rubber tip on that should be red; old ones were black. It must be red, and it must not be worn; if you've come this far you might as well fit a new one anyway. The float should be undamaged and contain no fuel; any hint of damage/cracks/leaks and sling it out for a new one. All parts are replaceable; you can probably get an overhaul pack with all the bits you'd need to give it a bit of a service.

Good luck with it; you already know that all these little jobs, once tackled, add to your mental tool bag for all the adventures to come.
Hi sime66. Thank you for introducing yourself and for the very helpful diagram. Now I can see why the banjo is called such. Great explanations! This will be so very helpful if/no WHEN I fix the whole floaty thingmabob.
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:30 pm quote
Arrrgh, yuck. Can you siphon a bunch of gas from the tank? But don't do like I once did once and get a mouthful of the stuff. Just ask if you want a half dozen guys telling you how to do it a half dozen ways. Half a tank or less, just a few inches should work*, PLENTY for testing and you'll need about empty if you need to pull the tank to fix a pesky leaky tap. If/when ONLY, don't fret yet, it's fairly easy and you can also adjust that UNFAIRLY hard to pull cowl hook spring same time. You have ongoing full support of amateur experts and free parts by mail. What could go wrong?

PS If only a little ethanol and never stored with a lot, you may find a perfect needle tip or more likely a red one. I've run it in a jam just like you too.

*exception: if you possibly have a semi-kink in your fuel line inside where youcan't see, you might need a full tank to have a little more pressure and get the gas thru... just sayin', but small possibility coz I see whoever built it did a nice job overall.

Last edited by V oodoo on Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:33 pm quote
maybe the previous owner had the fuel tap apart at some point, then reassembled it incorrectly? With the sitar bolt cracked loose again, try turning the fuel tap lever until you might be able to find an off position. If you can't, then either you need a new tap or a new gasket inside the tap.
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:33 pm quote
gmontag wrote:
You may have just solved your problem by dinking about with it. It sounds like you just need the carb cap tightened down to stop the leak. If you do decide to overhaul the carb, the gas will make short work of those gloves. Some thicker ones will help.

Hair in the flywheel? That's something I will never have to worry about.
Thank you, g. Yes, I dinked around with stuff. Some of it I messed up. Like Righty tightyólefty loosey. Learned in kindergarten, but.....

hopefully I fixed some stuff, too.

Thanks for the glove tip. I have some thicker black ones, but the gas seems to eat right through them. My fingers still smell like fuel and Iíve washed them a million times.
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Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:35 pm quote
Anybody know if those red gaskets can be replaced? Where to get them?

Also, could a crowsfoot wrench be used to remove the fuel tap? What size?
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