Custom Broker - Ape Car from Mexico to USA.
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Member
apecar
Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Location: Houston
Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:48 pm quote
Hello Guys i am trying to import an ApeCar from Mexcio To United States. i am Looking for custom broker.
some one have some info ?
Ossessionato
GTV
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Location: Santa Cruz CA
Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:39 pm quote
There have been a number of threads about importing an APE. Use the Search tab in the upper left of the page and read some of the past discussions and experiences. I think the consensus is that its not possible because it doesn't meet DOT requirements.

Best
Miguel
Member
apecar
Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Location: Houston
Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:42 pm quote
I know about the DOT. that is way i am looking for a broker and find another way. can you help me with a list of brokers for texas ?
Ossessionato
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Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:00 pm quote
amerikan91 wrote:
I know about the DOT. that is way i am looking for a broker and find another way. can you help me with a list of brokers for texas ?
Sorry, I have no clue about such things. I was just pointing you at other threads on Modern Vespa that have discussed importing APEs. You might pose your questions on the Not-so-Modern Vespa page. Go to the Forum tab in the upper left and select Not-so-modern.

Cheers
Miguel
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:42 am quote
Miguel wrote:
There have been a number of threads about importing an APE. Use the Search tab in the upper left of the page and read some of the past discussions and experiences. I think the consensus is that its not possible because it doesn't meet DOT requirements.

Best
Miguel
It's an Antique it can be done. Call Antique Archaeologist and see who they use for importing.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/278/~/importing-classic-or-antique-vehicles-%2F-cars-for-personal-use

"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation.
A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Such a vehicle would be entered under Box 1 on the HS-7 Declaration form to be given to Customs at the time of importation."
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:47 am quote
Miguel wrote:
There have been a number of threads about importing an APE. Use the Search tab in the upper left of the page and read some of the past discussions and experiences. I think the consensus is that its not possible because it doesn't meet DOT requirements.

Best
Miguel
Depends on the year of the Ape what requirements it has to meet. Old enough and they are minimal which is why a good broker helps.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:53 am quote
If it isn't 21 years old, there's no way around the DOT and EPA requirements, even with an import broker or agent. I just went through this experience with a friend and his motorcycle. (Chronicled in a recent issue of the BMW ON magazine) And the burden of proof is on you that the vehicle is in compliance. No one in government or private industry will help you. An import agent will assist you, but they won't do 100% of the work for you.
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:27 am quote
cdwise wrote:
Miguel wrote:
There have been a number of threads about importing an APE. Use the Search tab in the upper left of the page and read some of the past discussions and experiences. I think the consensus is that its not possible because it doesn't meet DOT requirements.

Best
Miguel
Depends on the year of the Ape what requirements it has to meet. Old enough and they are minimal which is why a good broker helps.
Only has to be 21 years old. So that's only back to the late 90's. So any Ape could be imported.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:36 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
If it isn't 21 years old, there's no way around the DOT and EPA requirements, even with an import broker or agent. I just went through this experience with a friend and his motorcycle. (Chronicled in a recent issue of the BMW ON magazine) And the burden of proof is on you that the vehicle is in compliance. No one in government or private industry will help you. An import agent will assist you, but they won't do 100% of the work for you.
They only built the Apes till 2013 so chances are it's older than 21 years old.
Not many people looking to collect a 1990 or newer Ape.
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:55 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Vintage1 wrote:
If it isn't 21 years old, there's no way around the DOT and EPA requirements, even with an import broker or agent. I just went through this experience with a friend and his motorcycle. (Chronicled in a recent issue of the BMW ON magazine) And the burden of proof is on you that the vehicle is in compliance. No one in government or private industry will help you. An import agent will assist you, but they won't do 100% of the work for you.
They only built the Apes till 2013 so chances are it's older than 21 years old.
Not many people looking to collect a 1990 or newer Ape.
sooo.... it could be 5 years old or 25 years old. He didn't say anything about "collecting". Maybe he's going to operate it as a coffee truck. I'm not assuming anything. You shouldn't either until we hear from the OP. But, chances are you're correct in your assumption.
Member
apecar
Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Location: Houston
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:34 am quote
As Auto Part.
Most likely i will ship the ApeCar without the motor part. what type of documentation i will need it ?
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:49 am quote
amerikan91 wrote:
Most likely i will ship the ApeCar without the motor part.
Another reason to consider a broker in preparing and filing documentation. Motorcycle/scooter bodies or frames are sometimes shipped into the US as parts, which substantially simplifies the process.
Member
apecar
Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Location: Houston
Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:53 am quote
and i will do that. i am Still looking for a good brokers in Texas if you guys know someone please leave a link
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:00 am quote
Sounds like no one here has direct personal experience working with a Texas-based auto/motorcycle import broker. Many come up in an internet search. Perhaps you should contact one and discuss your issue.
Molto Verboso
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:31 am quote
Its not like anyone here doesn't want to help you, believe me we do. It's just that it's an unbelievably complicated process, and every case can be very different from the next one. It's just not possible to explain the process or any part of the process whether in an internet forum or in person even.

My friend's motorcycle was completely legal for the USA but it's VIN wasn't a USA one. (Bike was only 12 model years old) And HE had to prove it was legal without any U.S. government, nor BMW USA nor BMW Europe assistance. It was more than a three month process and the stack of papers he needed to have either filled out by him or supplied by him as proof of one kind or another was probably almost two inches high.

I'm not saying you will have that much trouble, but dealing with the U.S. Federal government is somewhere between a headache and a nightmare so picking a local to you importer is the first step.
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:17 am quote
Re: As Auto Part.
amerikan91 wrote:
Most likely i will ship the ApeCar without the motor part. what type of documentation i will need it ?
You might as well contact a broker.
That is the only way to get real advice and you're not going to be able to do it without one so might as well get started.

Start with these guys
https://www.pcbusa.com/brokerage-vehicles.cfm
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 4741
Location: South Carolina
Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:13 pm quote
The NHTSA information makes it seem like a cakewalk, just check a box and bring it on in. Then you might want to wander over to the EPA site and really look at what it takes to bring it in.

Taking the engine out and importing it sounds like a plan. I bet nobody's ever tried that before.

You can get an Ape pretty cheap just about everywhere. Why do you think there's not one in front of every Espresso or Gelato store in the US?
Molto Verboso
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:37 pm quote
it's only a cakewalk if a particular version of a vehicle was originally approved by the U.S. government for sale in the U.S. The VINs also have to be in the 'valid for U.S.' database that customs, EPA and DOT check.
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:12 pm quote
[quote="Dooglas"]
amerikan91 wrote:
Most likely i will ship the ApeCar without the motor part.
Another reason to consider a broker in preparing and filing documentation. Motorcycle/scooter bodies or frames are sometimes shipped into the US as parts, which substantially simplifies the process.[/quote

That might get you into trouble. That would be a false statement and the feds don't take things like that lightly.
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:15 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
The NHTSA information makes it seem like a cakewalk, just check a box and bring it on in. Then you might want to wander over to the EPA site and really look at what it takes to bring it in.

Taking the engine out and importing it sounds like a plan. I bet nobody's ever tried that before.

You can get an Ape pretty cheap just about everywhere. Why do you think there's not one in front of every Espresso or Gelato store in the US?
You might be surprised. There isn't much that has not been tried before. Unless you engage an expert, you will be facing tons of heartbreak...
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:01 am quote
Motovista wrote:
The NHTSA information makes it seem like a cakewalk, just check a box and bring it on in. Then you might want to wander over to the EPA site and really look at what it takes to bring it in.

Taking the engine out and importing it sounds like a plan. I bet nobody's ever tried that before.

You can get an Ape pretty cheap just about everywhere. Why do you think there's not one in front of every Espresso or Gelato store in the US?
Not according to this,
"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation."

That is from Customs and Border Patrol website.

No, you just down walk it into the country, but that is why there are Import Brokers that know how to do it right.
Think it's been said multiple times in just this thread, "Get a Broker".
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:06 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
it's only a cakewalk if a particular version of a vehicle was originally approved by the U.S. government for sale in the U.S. The VINs also have to be in the 'valid for U.S.' database that customs, EPA and DOT check.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/278/~/importing-classic-or-antique-vehicles-%2F-cars-for-personal-use

"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation.
A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Such a vehicle would be entered under Box 1 on the HS-7 Declaration form to be given to Customs at the time of importation."

But then again that is why there are brokers.
It's just like shipping anything, all the paperwork just has to be done right and why there are brokers.

You bring in wrong you can't just sent it back it get destroyed.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:08 am quote
Yes, it can go a little easy or a lot difficult. It's not as easy as checking off a box on a single form and then suddenly the gates are opened and you're welcomed in. The instance where my friend and I brought the motorcycle over should have been a simple procedure because there was no difference between a Canadian market bike made in Germany, and a U.S. market bike also made in the same plant at the same time, but the paperwork was still 2 inches thick. That was because HE had to definitively prove and document the proof that the bike was in compliance with U.S. laws and regulations.

There's also a huge difference in bringing over a vehicle the same or similar model to one that was originally sold, or at least had the Gov't OK to sell here, than if it was one never approved for sale here. And we can't also ignore the fact that if you ask three different government employees to interpret the rules, you may get three different answers.
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Granturismo 218
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:28 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/278/~/importing-classic-or-antique-vehicles-%2F-cars-for-personal-use

"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation.
A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Such a vehicle would be entered under Box 1 on the HS-7 Declaration form to be given to Customs at the time of importation."

But then again that is why there are brokers.
It's just like shipping anything, all the paperwork just has to be done right and why there are brokers.

You bring in wrong you can't just sent it back it get destroyed.
Read the whole thing, not just the first part that sounds like what you want to hear. The Ape is similar to the Kei Cars from Japan that people tried to import.
In case you missed it the first time, this is still my favorite, "Just take it apart and bring it in," story:

http://www.postandcourier.com/business/feds-seize-fast-furious-car-say-north-charleston-business-illegally/article_7a36ee46-3a5b-11e7-bacd-f34ca15bbbca.html
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Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:57 am quote
[Marin, CA] 1953 Ape Calessino
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Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:05 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/278/~/importing-classic-or-antique-vehicles-%2F-cars-for-personal-use

"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation.
A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable DOT Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). Such a vehicle would be entered under Box 1 on the HS-7 Declaration form to be given to Customs at the time of importation."

But then again that is why there are brokers.
It's just like shipping anything, all the paperwork just has to be done right and why there are brokers.

You bring in wrong you can't just sent it back it get destroyed.
Read the whole thing, not just the first part that sounds like what you want to hear. The Ape is similar to the Kei Cars from Japan that people tried to import.
In case you missed it the first time, this is still my favorite, "Just take it apart and bring it in," story:

http://www.postandcourier.com/business/feds-seize-fast-furious-car-say-north-charleston-business-illegally/article_7a36ee46-3a5b-11e7-bacd-f34ca15bbbca.html
That vehicle looks a little newer than 25 years old

It can be done, people do it all the time, get a broker. Never said it would be cheap or easy
That is why I have said in every post. GET A BROKER!!! Antique Archaeologists does not get it done just because they are on TV.
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Granturismo 218
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Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:53 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
It can be done, people do it all the time, get a broker. Never said it would be cheap or easy
That is why I have said in every post. GET A BROKER!!! Antique Archaeologists does not get it done just because they are on TV.
In all the years this line of questioning has come up, nobody has ever chimed in with words to the effect of, "I did it, here is how and this is what it cost me...."
It would be interesting to hear from someone who did it, what it ended up costing, how long it took, and how much paperwork was involved. If you have all your ducks in a row, and are doing exactly what the last person who brought one in did, Customs can still seize your Ape and require you to jump through newer, better hoops. And the meter is running while they decide how high or far they want you to jump.
I suspect that over the years, stuff has slipped through or people figured out a way to skirt the rules, and then Customs figured out what was happening and put a stop to it.
Depending on your tolerance for risk, the easiest way to get one here might be to put some numbers on the side and stick it on the back of a trailer, then try to bring it in from TJ right after the Baja 1000.
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Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:14 am quote
Motovista wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
It can be done, people do it all the time, get a broker. Never said it would be cheap or easy
That is why I have said in every post. GET A BROKER!!! Antique Archaeologists does not get it done just because they are on TV.
In all the years this line of questioning has come up, nobody has ever chimed in with words to the effect of, "I did it, here is how and this is what it cost me...."
It would be interesting to hear from someone who did it, what it ended up costing, how long it took, and how much paperwork was involved. If you have all your ducks in a row, and are doing exactly what the last person who brought one in did, Customs can still seize your Ape and require you to jump through newer, better hoops. And the meter is running while they decide how high or far they want you to jump.
I suspect that over the years, stuff has slipped through or people figured out a way to skirt the rules, and then Customs figured out what was happening and put a stop to it.
Depending on your tolerance for risk, the easiest way to get one here might be to put some numbers on the side and stick it on the back of a trailer, then try to bring it in from TJ right after the Baja 1000.
Well I just emailed a broker which seems to be more effort than anyone else has taken. Just asked if I can legally import a 1960's Piaggio Ape and estimated cost.
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Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:22 am quote
Just ride out it over before they build the wall.

😂🤦‍♂️

SDG
Molto Verboso
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Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:34 am quote
If you can, get a copy or read online the June issue of BMW Owner's News. It's my friend Larry's story of us traveling to Canada and importing a Canadian/Euro spec BMW into the USA. (No different than a USA spec bike, but no proof to that effect until HE had to prove it) It's a very shortened version and as motivated as Larry was, he doesn't think he'd try it again or have tried it in the first place if he knew then what he knows now about what the process is supposed to be like and how it actually played out.

Not only the problems on the Federal level, i.e. DOT, EPA, but even when those issues were settled and the bike was legally in his garage in the USA, the State of New York refused to allow him to title and register it. Thus began a new set of hoops to jump through.

I know you can say all day that Federal law trumps state laws, but try and tell that to the bureaucracy that's the DMV.
Motovista wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
It can be done, people do it all the time, get a broker. Never said it would be cheap or easy
That is why I have said in every post. GET A BROKER!!! Antique Archaeologists does not get it done just because they are on TV.
In all the years this line of questioning has come up, nobody has ever chimed in with words to the effect of, "I did it, here is how and this is what it cost me...."
It would be interesting to hear from someone who did it, what it ended up costing, how long it took, and how much paperwork was involved. If you have all your ducks in a row, and are doing exactly what the last person who brought one in did, Customs can still seize your Ape and require you to jump through newer, better hoops. And the meter is running while they decide how high or far they want you to jump.
I suspect that over the years, stuff has slipped through or people figured out a way to skirt the rules, and then Customs figured out what was happening and put a stop to it.
Depending on your tolerance for risk, the easiest way to get one here might be to put some numbers on the side and stick it on the back of a trailer, then try to bring it in from TJ right after the Baja 1000.
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Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:41 am quote
Vintage1 wrote:
If you can, get a copy or read online the June issue of BMW Owner's News. It's my friend Larry's story of us traveling to Canada and importing a Canadian/Euro spec BMW into the USA. (No different than a USA spec bike, but no proof to that effect until HE had to prove it) It's a very shortened version and as motivated as Larry was, he doesn't think he'd try it again or have tried it in the first place if he knew then what he knows now about what the process is supposed to be like and how it actually played out.

Not only the problems on the Federal level, i.e. DOT, EPA, but even when those issues were settled and the bike was legally in his garage in the USA, the State of New York refused to allow him to title and register it. Thus began a new set of hoops to jump through.

I know you can say all day that Federal law trumps state laws, but try and tell that to the bureaucracy that's the DMV.

[/quote]

Sounds like he did not use a broker, did he? And New York State is not a good example in my opinion. Register it in Tenn first where they are more lax.

And what year was the BMW?
Molto Verboso
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Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:19 pm quote
2005 BMW Montauk. And yes, he did use a registered vehicle importer on the U.S. side of the border.

NY may be a 'bad example' as you say, but it is a true example after all. Most state DMVs are douche bags. Some are not. But if it's not in their computer database as a USA VIN, which it won't be, then you can count on big trouble.
WEB-Tech wrote:
Vintage1 wrote:
If you can, get a copy or read online the June issue of BMW Owner's News. It's my friend Larry's story of us traveling to Canada and importing a Canadian/Euro spec BMW into the USA. (No different than a USA spec bike, but no proof to that effect until HE had to prove it) It's a very shortened version and as motivated as Larry was, he doesn't think he'd try it again or have tried it in the first place if he knew then what he knows now about what the process is supposed to be like and how it actually played out.

Not only the problems on the Federal level, i.e. DOT, EPA, but even when those issues were settled and the bike was legally in his garage in the USA, the State of New York refused to allow him to title and register it. Thus began a new set of hoops to jump through.

I know you can say all day that Federal law trumps state laws, but try and tell that to the bureaucracy that's the DMV.

Sounds like he did not use a broker, did he? And New York State is not a good example in my opinion. Register it in Tenn first where they are more lax.

And what year was the BMW?[/quote]
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Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:08 am quote
NH is the place to register it.
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Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:49 pm quote
Might be easier and cheaper to hunt down a Bajaj 3 wheeler in the US and rebuild it. There were quite a few of them imported here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/162609659622?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=162609659622&rmvSB=true
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Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:18 pm quote
do the Radar thing and mail it a piece at a time back to the usa and then put it back together and call it a home made scooter.
Molto Verboso
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Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:03 pm quote
Posting on ADV will get a much stronger response for the OP's question.
OP might also contact the AZ BMW MC club via their website contacts.
For me (I know you didn't ask) I'd just stop wanting an APE car. I've been in Mexico a bunch and never seen one but now I know what they are...
Build yer own?
Do you sell veggies for a living?
Lurker
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Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 2
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Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:37 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Motovista wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
It can be done, people do it all the time, get a broker. Never said it would be cheap or easy
That is why I have said in every post. GET A BROKER!!! Antique Archaeologists does not get it done just because they are on TV.
In all the years this line of questioning has come up, nobody has ever chimed in with words to the effect of, "I did it, here is how and this is what it cost me...."
It would be interesting to hear from someone who did it, what it ended up costing, how long it took, and how much paperwork was involved. If you have all your ducks in a row, and are doing exactly what the last person who brought one in did, Customs can still seize your Ape and require you to jump through newer, better hoops. And the meter is running while they decide how high or far they want you to jump.
I suspect that over the years, stuff has slipped through or people figured out a way to skirt the rules, and then Customs figured out what was happening and put a stop to it.
Depending on your tolerance for risk, the easiest way to get one here might be to put some numbers on the side and stick it on the back of a trailer, then try to bring it in from TJ right after the Baja 1000.
Well I just emailed a broker which seems to be more effort than anyone else has taken. Just asked if I can legally import a 1960's Piaggio Ape and estimated cost.
would you be willing to provide the brokers name and info?
Ossessionato
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Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:41 am quote
Jesus.

Iíve got to open a stateside Ape dealership.
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