Rear wheel seize and skid
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Member
1985 PX150e & 1981 P150S
Joined: 17 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Byron Bay
Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:05 pm quote
I hav recently imported 2x 1980s vespas a 1985 px150e and a 1981 p150s.

I got them all signed off by the mechanic locally and looked good to go.

Both bikes when riding home, had the rear wheel completely seize and I came to a large skidding stop.

Scared the shit out of me!

They both started again and seemed fine and I am now trying to get to the bottom of why this happened.

The fact it happened to both bikes makes me think maybe its a fuel/oil mix issue as thats the only thing that was done by the mechanic to both bikes and seems like one hell of a coincidence otherwise.

The bikes aren't idling particularly smoothly and checking the the spark plugs they look quite oily.

The bikes both ride fine now but I am hesitant to to go too far incase it happens again.

Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

I am a complete noob sop please be gentle
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6499
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:46 pm quote
Very odd.

What do you know of the history of these scooters?
How many k's have they done since you bought them, and how many k's are on the speedos?
Did they both do it at the same time?
How fast were you going at the time?
What was the thing that was done to both of them by the mechanic?
Are they autolube or premix?
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:51 pm quote
It's a soft seize.
Either running too lean (main jet too small or blocked) or no oil in petrol

ALWAYS cover your clutch lever (with 1 or 2 fingers)... If it seizes, pull the clutch in... When the scoot slows down (to running pace or less), SLOWLY let the lever out & see IF you are lucky enough that the motor turns (ie un-seizes).


Ohh yeah... & what he said... Plus we love/need PHOTOS of these scoots
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5269
Location: Indo
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:18 am quote
i think u got urself an indo bike and a bad 2 stroke oil
Addicted
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 921
Location: London UK
Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:46 am quote
Seals
Seized up for no apparent reason, oily plug, as with anything weird, could be a worn clutch side oil seal.
If the gear oil is low level or like black petrol it's not a good sign.
Hooked
Jet 200, P200E (x2), T5
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 259
Location: Paris, France & L.A., Cal, USA
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:01 pm quote
Whence were both scooters imported?
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 607

Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:08 pm quote
Both?! That's terrible, you're lucky you're ok.
That's a bad day, I would go for surf at the pass or check the banks at broken head... then beers at the Northern?
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:36 pm quote
I got them all signed off by the m

I guess this was to check chassis number etc... NOT to get them tuned?

If so... did you go to a specialist Vespa mechanic for a tuneup?
Member
1985 PX150e & 1981 P150S
Joined: 17 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Byron Bay
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:15 pm quote
Sorry for the delay in replying.

I think the soft seize sounds likely, I've driven them around 'slowly' and seem OK but justing wanting use a bit of petrol so I can top up with more oil in the mix. I will also check the gear box oil and seals.

I will report back if I'm still alive.

The bikes got shipped with no fuel so the mechanic put the fuel/oil in.

But yes right i that the mechanic didn't do much else but check everything was superficially OK.

I imported the Vespas from Bandung, Java.

I went over there for three weeks and stayed with a friend that lives there half the year. I looked at dozens of bikes and went to maybe 10 different mechanics until finding one that looked half decent. Got the bikes tip top and rode the around there and were working perfectly.

They would of sat around for a few months not being ridden if that is a factor.

I haven't had them professionally tuned locally, it's little bit of a mission as the only vespa scooter mechanic I'm aware of is about 100km away.

I realised the other day that Vespa re-realised the exact model in 2012.

So I could of bought one 5 years old for the same price that it cost to bring in a 35 year old one!

Would I be right in that there is limited demand of the original model than buying one of the new ones released? I am going to flog one of the bikes, there doesnt seem to be one of this vintage for sale in Australia so hard to gauge what its worth...

Yes, PureDrivenSnow I am surfing at Wategoes while drink and stone and wood at the beachy! Part of wanting a scooter was so I could always get a park when going surfing...

Here are a couple of pics...

BLACK - Front.jpg

BLACK - Side.jpg

SILVER - Front.jpg

SILVER - Side.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6499
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:53 pm quote
They look really nice. I especially like the Exclusive II (Ebeth is that right?) headset.

So you rode these for a while in Java?

There are P's and PX's for sale all the time in Australia. They are extremely popular. I guess perhaps you simply didn't look very hard. Piaggio stopped making PX 200's in 2007-ish, and made PX 150's for a few more years and stopped. Then started up again as you say. They seem to have stopped again (for good this time I think) earlier this year.
You'll see a heap of them next September when the National Scooter Rally is held in Byron Bay.

Did you (or your mechanic) mix oil into the fuel before you rode them? That could certainly explain what happened.
If it was a seize then you can probably clean up the pistons & cylinders and carry on. This involves removing the top end, feering the rings, removing any smeared aluminum from the cylinder walls and checking for irretreivable damage.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5269
Location: Indo
Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:41 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
They look really nice. I especially like the Exclusive II (Ebeth is that right?) headset.

So you rode these for a while in Java?

There are P's and PX's for sale all the time in Australia. They are extremely popular. I guess perhaps you simply didn't look very hard. Piaggio stopped making PX 200's in 2007-ish, and made PX 150's for a few more years and stopped. Then started up again as you say. They seem to have stopped again (for good this time I think) earlier this year.
You'll see a heap of them next September when the National Scooter Rally is held in Byron Bay.

Did you (or your mechanic) mix oil into the fuel before you rode them? That could certainly explain what happened.
If it was a seize then you can probably clean up the pistons & cylinders and carry on. This involves removing the top end, feering the rings, removing any smeared aluminum from the cylinder walls and checking for irretreivable damage.
yup thats tha ekslusif II headset
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6499
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:59 pm quote
koenig blues wrote:
yup thats tha ekslusif II headset
Thank you, Indo brains trust! Have a great day mate!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5269
Location: Indo
Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:01 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
koenig blues wrote:
yup thats tha ekslusif II headset
Thank you, Indo brains trust! Have a great day mate!
you too Brother M, have a great day and cheer
Member
1985 PX150e & 1981 P150S
Joined: 17 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Byron Bay
Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:49 pm quote
Exclusive headset, I like it!

Oil was definitely put in, I will know today once I go for a decent ride if the problem still exists.

Hey Ginch, where is the best place to sell/buy scooter? I looked on gumtree, eBay and scootersales and couldn't find any.

It wold be very helpful to know what similar models sell for etc.

Looking forward to next September!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6499
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:45 pm quote
ByronStyle wrote:
Exclusive headset, I like it!

Oil was definitely put in, I will know today once I go for a decent ride if the problem still exists.

Hey Ginch, where is the best place to sell/buy scooter? I looked on gumtree, eBay and scootersales and couldn't find any.

It wold be very helpful to know what similar models sell for etc.

Looking forward to next September!
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-vespa+px/k0
https://www.facebook.com/groups/937426853003689/
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/vespa/px-150/

What do you think you'll be asking... or what does it owe you?
Member
1985 PX150e & 1981 P150S
Joined: 17 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Byron Bay
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:50 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
ByronStyle wrote:
Exclusive headset, I like it!

Oil was definitely put in, I will know today once I go for a decent ride if the problem still exists.

Hey Ginch, where is the best place to sell/buy scooter? I looked on gumtree, eBay and scootersales and couldn't find any.

It wold be very helpful to know what similar models sell for etc.

Looking forward to next September!
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-vespa+px/k0
https://www.facebook.com/groups/937426853003689/
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/vespa/px-150/

What do you think you'll be asking... or what does it owe you?
Thanks for those links Ginch, really appreciated.

I needed to be little more specific in that I haven't managed to find a PX150 from the 80s... I saw one there with a side cart that looked pretty good.

Those links though give me a much better idea of whats floating around.

I was hoping to get $5500 for the silver one, not entirely sure if thats unreasonable or not. I spent just over $5000 on it, the customs stung me a bit coming in but I learnt a lot and could do it a fair bit cheaper if I did it again.

I'm not sure if an original from the 80s is worth more or less than say one from 2008 or 2012...

I took the silver one for a 40 minute ride yesterday, after putting a little more oil in the fuel tank. It ran like a dream, no 'soft seize' or the like...

I then took the black one out for about 15 minutes and all good there too.

So I'm thinking that there was possibly old fuel in the line, the mechanic got the oil/fuel mix wrong or I was to aggressive i firkin them after them not being ridden for a while... alls well thats ends well!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6499
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:47 pm quote
Hope that's the end of it then.

I don't think that an early one demands that much of a premium right now, being Indo throws some uncertainty into the mix as they have historically been seen as pretty dodgy.
For $5500 I could expect to have the choice of a few very good to excellent P/PX200s, and they very definitely command a premium over the 150's. Everyone wants a 200.
Sorry but I think you'll have a struggle getting that much from the informed buyer. However that still leaves the uninformed market wide open...
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:14 am quote
Just remember that they are from JAVA, So basically most will consider them as a "Bodge", therefore your market in AUS is limited.
$5500... not much chance, specially for a "standard" (unless there are some cool expensive mods you have not mentioned)... plus, as Ginchi said, they are only 150 motors, so price is WAY LESS than a 200 motor.
My guess for price in AUS is about $2200-$3600 incl rego & roady (in SUA, about 1/2 that).

Do you have any pics or info from BEFORE they were restored/bodged?
If you want to sell them to "someone in the scene" you will need to produce pics showing that they are not mere VBB's with lots of welding & bog
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86 and a not so normal pts100 '82
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5269
Location: Indo
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:54 pm quote
i have some extra ekslusif head if one is desire, just pay for the shiping and speedo
Member
1985 PX150e & 1981 P150S
Joined: 17 Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Byron Bay
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:07 pm quote
Hey guys, thanks for the info it does help me get a feel for it.

So there really is no market restoring and bringing in bikes from indo it seems...

Best case bring in a full container load would be landing them between $3000 and $3500 and if thats what they are worth makes it unviable.

I would imagine that even bringing in a PX200 would not make sense as coming from indo, like you said, would reduce the price people would pay and they certainly aren't pristine.

I checked the frames when I was over there as it one of the main criteria I was addressing looking at bikes, I have a couple of photos but nothing that would show the chassis integrity unfortunately.

The uninformed market it is!
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 3694
Location: Millbin, Ostrayleea, mate
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:32 pm quote
ByronStyle wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the info it does help me get a feel for it.

So there really is no market restoring and bringing in bikes from indo it seems...

Best case bring in a full container load would be landing them between $3000 and $3500 and if thats what they are worth makes it unviable.

I would imagine that even bringing in a PX200 would not make sense as coming from indo, like you said, would reduce the price people would pay and they certainly aren't pristine.

I checked the frames when I was over there as it one of the main criteria I was addressing looking at bikes, I have a couple of photos but nothing that would show the chassis integrity unfortunately.

The uninformed market it is!
I looked into this myself... Here are the results... Ie best not!

Would YOU buy a bodge off ME?
Missouri Loves Company Rally   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
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