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I have a 1980 100 Sport, I put an ET3 motor into it. It runs fine, pulls very well in gears 1-3 but flattens out and won't pull in 4th. The motor was rebuilt then sat in a garage for 5 years. I paid $400 for it. I checked the compression after I put it in the Scooter and it's 90 psi. 4 gears is nice but I want more out of it. New rings might help.
So this is my plan for a winter project.
Pinasco Zuera top end
Vespatronic ignition and flywheel
PLCcorse clutch
It already has new shocks, tires and Simonini exhaust and the original 19/19 carb.
If it all works I will have an ordinary looking old smallie with a lot of speed.
Any comments or suggestions?
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Looks like a great project brother...

Just keep in mind.. when using things like the PLC Clutch... you should ask ahead of time, and make sure it's going to be compatible w/ the rest of your pieces..

I ended up using all DRT parts in my v90, as some parts weren't really compatible w/ other components.. I went through a LOT of tweaking, (having my 1st gear milled down .05mm) etc. etc. etc... and lots of shimming... to get things to go together....

Just a thought... but I'd send an "e" to PLC... let them know what parts you're going to be using w/ their clutch and make sure you don't need to do too much dilly-dally to make things work together. Again... just something to think about.. Gimme a call if you want to hear about my experience and 2c.

I love the idea of this "sleeper".. the exhaust (as per usual) is a dead give away though! too bad they don't have a bitchin' "stock" looking pipe that'd suit your cylinder.. tucked up under the panel, so no one would be "none the wiser"
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Drt short 4th tree
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sdjohn wrote:
Drt short 4th tree
I like the DRT Runner "F1 ("race") version (Tree) (shorter 3rd and 4th)... with stock "loose gears".. it's not the quickest bike off the line, but you can sit on the highway at 60+mph very comfortably.

.... with a DRT 27/69 Primary (page 451 of the SIP catalog... comes w/ the Primary drive basket and primary drive cog)...
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Vader19 wrote:
I love the idea of this "sleeper".. the exhaust (as per usual) is a dead give away though! too bad they don't have a bitchin' "stock" looking pipe that'd suit your cylinder.. tucked up under the panel, so no one would be "none the wiser"
This is pretty interesting option:

http://www.pipedesign.de/auspuffanlagen/smallframe-v50pvpk/s-box-150.html
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PureDrivenSnow wrote:
There ya go! Nice one Snow..

I've had a pair of Pipe Design "box" exhausts... a 177 and a 210 (built like tanks) and they were great..

I'd give this exhaust a try for sure.
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Here's a video about the clutch
http://www.plccorse.com/?page_id=107
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The dynos on the page are pretty impressive. The stroked engine with a lowish rpm box pipe is an interesting take on small frame tuning.
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Consider a bigger carb
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that is a very nice small frame. just sayin.
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Agree with socal on the carb size.
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Not so hot on smallies but agree it will make a good sleeper. Will the carb go under the tank with that kit?
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I've been looking into a carb upgrade. Pinasco says 19/19 is the minimum size for their top end kit. I think if I do get a new carb, it will still go under the seat.
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If you go with the Polini CP21 clamp on style it can go directly on to the stock primavera manifold without the stupid sleeve interface that always leaks. I run this and so does socal.
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External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I like this, anybody know the pricing?

Re Bigger carbs and better manifolds that attach airtight easily. If you have to buy a new carb & manifold anyway, consider the 19's slightly bigger brother, the SHB20L. It's got a built in bellmouth and clamps firmly to the manifold but without the pesky sleeve.

For about the same money you can get a nice Dellorto PHBL roundslide carb available in 22mm to 26mm sizes. These usually attach w/ a short stiff rubber adapter clamped to manifold & carb, again easily installed airtight.

I run both a 20L and a PHBL24 and have good power w/ zero problems. Finding the right manifold can be challenging and as mentioned, Polini's 19 kit takes care of that.
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Vpfalcon wrote:
I've been looking into a carb upgrade. Pinasco says 19/19 is the minimum size for their top end kit. I think if I do get a new carb, it will still go under the seat.
You would think that kit would really benefit from a larger carb at those port timings. As an example, that Pinasco kit is more agressive than the newer Malossi MKIII.

Staying on the stock manifold is pointless if your spending that sort of money and your engine is that strung out (125 trans /185 exhaust). You can get a manifold for $30...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/intake+manifold+polini+for_21500020

Maybe see what carb people are running on the German message boards. Then you can have a starting point with the jetting. The 25mm PHBL is very popular choice these days.
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PureDrivenSnow wrote:
You would think that kit would really benefit from a larger carb at those port timings. As an example, that Pinasco kit is more agressive than the newer Malossi MKIII.
Just fyi, here are the timings from someone at SCK -
exhaust duration 189° (Stroke 51mm)
transfer duration 130° (Stroke 51mm)

This was a Zuera 144 case induction.
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I'm thinking of the Dellorto 30mm, also an upgrade crankshaft. I want to keep it simple.
The fellow from PLCcorse suggested a reinforcement kit for the primary. I'll probably do that too. He also said the clutch will work fine. I really like the clutch
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Ginch wrote:
PureDrivenSnow wrote:
You would think that kit would really benefit from a larger carb at those port timings. As an example, that Pinasco kit is more agressive than the newer Malossi MKIII.
Just fyi, here are the timings from someone at SCK -
exhaust duration 189° (Stroke 51mm)
transfer duration 130° (Stroke 51mm)

This was a Zuera 144 case induction.
I got those numbers from here...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/84112000/Racing+Cylinder+PINASCO+Zuera.aspx?_country=E993AB67-6807-4109-BBED-F6374EBF9F9B&gpc_origin=pla&gpc_feed_alias=us&gpc_pid=84112000&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhfmN-tfE1wIVi8VkCh2hNAKrEAQYASABEgK-mvD_BwE

Seem there are few variations and photo of the kit on SIP includes packers... so, more variation.

Regardless they all look great.
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30 is a lot of carb for the displacement unless running a massive expansion chamber and downgearing a lot... Will scream rpm's!
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Vpfalcon wrote:
I'm thinking of the Dellorto 30mm, also an upgrade crankshaft. I want to keep it simple.
....
Sounds like you plan on taking it to the track
Yeah, that's a LOT of carb, even for a 200 motor. And if you upgrade the crank, I call first dibs on your old one(cash or trade?).
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The parts list gets longer on Smallie winter project.
Pinasco Zuera top end (small bore)
new crank, new clutch, motor mounts. New carb 28 or 30 mm.
I've been advised to add primary drive 27/69, primary sprocket 25 teeth, cluster with short 3rd and 4th.
Adds to the cost.
And tubeless split rims.
Not sure about the rims, I just put new tires (Continental)
Are split rims a safety improvement?
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This is starting to look like the worst combination of build fantasy I have ever seen. You ask for advice and then ignore it... Then put stuff together based on advice you get from some magic source that is total crap.

Instead of dreaming about what parts you want to buy, figure out what you want the scooter to do. Then choose the combination of products that work together to get to that goal.
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Yes I get it. I'm no expert at working on Vespas. The last post was a bit silly. Of course tubeless rims and tires are safer.
That being said, I have taken the advice given here.
To reiterate, I have a smallie with an et3 motor that is slow. I want it to go fast. That's what I want.
I'm finding out that tuning Smallframes is a bit of a rabbit hole. If I put on a new top end, I'll need a new crank, a bigger carb, a better clutch. Different gearing.
I don't mind spending a bit of money. I like working on Vespas. I'm semi retired and Chicago winters are long and cold.
By the way, I think the parts list will work together.
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How fast and what kind of fast? Top speed fast or accelerate fast? Around town fast or expressway fast?

It is ok to be excited, but take the advice you have asked for. 30mm carb is way to big for anything but the biggest expansion chambers. That PipeDesigns exhaust would be best with a 24mm carb.

And down gearing 4th is only necessary when making little power or power at higher revs. Downgearing 3rd is for big expansion chambers and big carbs that make power at 2x the rpm of stock...

You have to make it all work together or it will be an expensive bummer.
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Short 4th is better even for stock top ends, but short 3rd is only for big pipes. The stock 3-4 gap is lame the minute you hit a hill. I live in hills, so I recommend it. 30mm is huge, you don't need that much.
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I'm getting the 24 mm Dellorto
I will look into the gearing.
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Yes, tuning can be a slippery slope. "Fast" is subjective. How fast are you hoping to go? Are you more interested in top speed or light-to-light quickness? Also, how important is it for you to keep the scoot a "sleeper"? All of the above will influence what parts you need.

Unless there's something wrong with your old crank - or you expect to be making crazy hp - I'm not sure you need a new one. We have a 100 Sport crank in our smallie. If you go to a bigger taper, you'll need to replace the bearings. Maybe you were planning on doing that anyway.

A lighter flywheel is a good call. So is a runner tree. A 30mm carb is overkill. 24mm should be plenty unless you're planning on doing a really kickass build.
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Re: Smallframe winter project
Back to the beginning
Vpfalcon wrote:
I have a 1980 100 Sport, I put an ET3 motor into it. It runs fine, pulls very well in gears 1-3 but flattens out and won't pull in 4th. The motor was rebuilt then sat in a garage for 5 years. I paid $400 for it. I checked the compression after I put it in the Scooter and it's 90 psi. 4 gears is nice but I want more out of it. New rings might help.
...

If it all works I will have an ordinary looking old smallie with a lot of speed.
Any comments or suggestions?
Are you a big guy? I'm about 200 lb and my '74 Primavera pulls 4th just fine with only a copycat LML 3 port top end like yours, a PHBL 24 carb and a nice Simonini pipe like yours, nothing fancy(but I do like that new box type). My gearing and even the porting are stock, the motor's never been split.

What is it you want again? Just pull 4th nicely even up a modest grade? Or be able to go really fast, like 60-65 on a smallie? Or be able to get up to any legal off freeway speed as fast as possible? How much money have you got? If it's the first, pulling 4th w/ no sweat, w/ your pipe maybe just a little bigger carb & manifold and you're there. Piaggio didn't build a dog when they put out the ET3. Put the rest of the cash into those nice, and safer too, rims you know you want

First things first. Assuming the motor was broke in and there're not brand new rings in there now, get new rings and a professional hone on a professional machine. They will be able to tell you if there's serious out of round or taper. Rings are cheap so it's cheap insurance. Check your timing and be sure the carb is happy(red tipped float needle?).
Now how do you like it? Unhappy, order that carb setup.


Different targets and somewhat different solutions. Or hit all 3 targets and get out your wallet, nothing wrong with that if you know where you're going.
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BTW, the Pinasco carb kit is nice, all set up for you plug n play(maybe?) but the PHBL 24 carb is 89 and matching Polini manifold is 29 euro at SIP.
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TR wrote:
How fast and what kind of fast? Top speed fast or accelerate fast? Around town fast or expressway fast?
This information above would still be the most valuable contribution the poster could make.
Vpfalcon wrote:
To reiterate, I have a smallie with an et3 motor that is slow. I want it to go fast. That's what I want.
This is still very vague. It's like going to a chief and saying "I'm really hungry. I want a bunch of food." He still doesn't know if you want Coq au vin or a frozen pizza. If you can clearing express your goals you will get much better advice. Even a clear budget would help delineate what your options are.

In my case, my small frame project needed to be faster than a p200, built mostly from parts from my friends and not cost more $900. I did that and I'm mostly happy... but it could be faster. HA!
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Parts came
I'm always excited when scooter parts arrive in the mail.
This is what I got.
Pinasco Zuera cylinder kit, ignition/flywheel, crank 20mm cone, Dellorto 24 carb, plccorse clutch, primary reinforcement kit, and new motor mounts
I'll pull the motor out this week and get started.
I took Voodoos advice and left the gears alone. i have plenty of time between now and spring, and a heated garage. I hope the parts fit!
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Sweet stash of parts there. Let's see your build!
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Nifty lookin clutch ~~~ Nerd emoticon
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the Falcon wrote:
Nifty lookin clutch ~~~ Nerd emoticon
How in the world does it install???
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That clutch almost looks too nice to install. It would be a shame to hide it inside an engine.
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Cool video - what type of pressure plate / activating mechanism does it use?
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V oodoo wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I like this, anybody know the pricing?

Re Bigger carbs and better manifolds that attach airtight easily. If you have to buy a new carb & manifold anyway, consider the 19's slightly bigger brother, the SHB20L. It's got a built in bellmouth and clamps firmly to the manifold but without the pesky sleeve.

For about the same money you can get a nice Dellorto PHBL roundslide carb available in 22mm to 26mm sizes. These usually attach w/ a short stiff rubber adapter clamped to manifold & carb, again easily installed airtight.

I run both a 20L and a PHBL24 and have good power w/ zero problems. Finding the right manifold can be challenging and as mentioned, Polini's 19 kit takes care of that.
317 Euro shipped
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Joined: UTC
Posts: 754
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
I'm pretty sure it uses the original pressure plate. It came with no instructions. It looks like it has to be installed and then assembled. It came with some stuff to help install it. Not sure what the nifty bottle opener thingy is for!
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OP
@vpfalcon avatar
UTC

Addicted
86 T5,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 754
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
@vpfalcon avatar
86 T5,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 754
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
UTC quote
Left the disk out
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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