was 130 DR loss of power - now CP21 jetting
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Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
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Location: London UK
Mon May 14, 2018 2:46 am quote
0.8mm might be enough. Really sure that 0.6mm is too small though. The 118 main jet could be enough if your on 110 now.

At 1/2 throttle is where most time is spent so this has to be the economical point. When you move the pilot jet from fluffy to correct its all going to get a bit richer again. Need some ceiling to move in.

When correctly jetted should all finish with the clip in the middle with all throttle positions holding steady temperature.

Still need to set the timing and correct spark plug after this is all good. It won't mess the jetting up too much
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
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Location: San Diego, CA
Mon May 14, 2018 7:11 am quote
2.5 clip still too rich at 1/4 throttle, especially noted at lower RPM rather than higher RPM (i.e. 40 MPH in 4th vs 55 MPH in 4th).

Dropping to 2.0.

Temps are really good and pretty uniform, max temp for the ride this AM was 280. Looks like room to work for sure. It's getting pretty nice in feel, especially at higher RPM.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Mon May 14, 2018 3:38 pm quote
Starting to feel real good and temps still look good. I ordered the bigger jet kit, I want to try the bigger air brakes, there are still times that 1/4 splutters, though it is getting pretty good.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Mon May 14, 2018 6:46 pm quote
Seems like you're nearly there. The 0.8 might be enough but ideally need to end (including bigger pilot) with the clip in the middle or even 1/2 a clip rich.

Even once running clean right through the range, there still might be some adjustment to do but this will take lots of riding and plug checking to get perfect. Once running smooth clean and fast, I find the last tweaks to be a joy.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon May 14, 2018 7:20 pm quote
Yeah the place I get this stuff from still doesnít have the 0.8 yet, thinking about drilling out my 0.6 to 0.8. I can always get another later. Looks like I can go at least that big. Getting good. Wonít be long and Iíll be going after the P.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Mon May 14, 2018 10:01 pm quote
I thought you already had a 0.8mm. Save drilling another one. Once the new main jets arrive, try the 1.0mm that you already have drilled, first. I think this is going to be the one anyway.

Now nearly there let's get this done and onto the P, try this for the final round. Start with the needle on the richest clip (clip 5) and fit the correct (one size bigger) pilot. Fit a new main jet, one jet less than light splutter (going to be quite big now).

Reduce the clip until 1/4 is perfect. Check 1/2 and 1/4 both hold cruising temperature less than 300F on the stud. As the clip has dropped (clip 3.5 or 4, I expect) the main jet should now be correct too.
Hooked
Douglas 92L2/Bajaj Chetak/GS150 VS5
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Newbury - Berkshire - UK
Tue May 15, 2018 4:16 am quote
I've been enjoying reading this thread, I use the CP 19mm and CP23mm carbs for Wideframe conversions.

Just out of interest where are you guys getting your 1.0 air brake from?

Thanks,
Rog
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue May 15, 2018 5:14 am quote
Makes sense, thanks for the shortcut. I will get it done.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue May 15, 2018 5:15 am quote
I made myself be from a 0.3 with a pin vise, but Treatland will be stocking them soon. See the parts diagram on page 1 of the thread.
Hooked
Douglas 92L2/Bajaj Chetak/GS150 VS5
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Newbury - Berkshire - UK
Tue May 15, 2018 5:28 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
I made myself be from a 0.3 with a pin vise, but Treatland will be stocking them soon. See the parts diagram on page 1 of the thread.
Oh yes, just spotted that now, many thanks!
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 pm quote
Did you finish the smallie jetting yet?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon May 21, 2018 7:26 pm quote
Main jets arrived today. I think the shop forgot to mail them for a few days until I sent an inquiry. Suddenly the tracking showed up the next day. Soon!
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat May 26, 2018 3:19 pm quote
I tried this today. It is very hard to work with the clip in the 5 spot. I worked from 132 to 114 before giving up and moving the clip to 4. I found then that the engine would gain power as I went from full throttle to 3/4. I put a 116 in and it seemed a bit better but still happened. The lower throttles are still nasty though, so I went to the 3 clip. But Iím still getting the speed up as I back out. Is it lean then?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat May 26, 2018 5:50 pm quote
Thinking on it the 3/4 is leaner than the full, thatís whatís happening. But to lean it out further will actually take it near to where I stopped on the 0.6 air brake. The 1/4 is rich and I will have no room to pull down the needle or 3/4 will lean further. I think the 1.0 is too big.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat May 26, 2018 7:55 pm quote
Iím thinking maybe go back to 0.6 air brake with 2nd clip and just drop the main from 110 to 108 and call it good. That should help 3/4 a bit.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
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Location: San Diego, CA
Sat May 26, 2018 8:29 pm quote
Or keep the 110 main and go to clip 1.5
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Sat May 26, 2018 10:21 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
I tried this today. It is very hard to work with the clip in the 5 spot. I worked from 132 to 114 before giving up and moving the clip to 4. I found then that the engine would gain power as I went from full throttle to 3/4. I put a 116 in and it seemed a bit better but still happened. The lower throttles are still nasty though, so I went to the 3 clip. But Iím still getting the speed up as I back out. Is it lean then?
When 3/4 pulls harder than WOT the main jet is usually too weak.

The 1.0mm air brake is making the top end leaner.

The 0.6 works so you have a fall back. Last try on the 1.0mm, set to clip 3 and adjust the main jet to suit. If this ends with 1/4 too weak then the 1.0mm is too big.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun May 27, 2018 6:26 am quote
Yes I was on the right track then by starting to go back up. I needed to pause and work it out. I will try again with clip 3 working from rich, it shouldnít be too bad.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun May 27, 2018 9:21 am quote
Well 122 splutters, so this wonít take long.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun May 27, 2018 4:58 pm quote
118 main and 2nd clip is where it stops.

Thereís still a loss of performance from 7/8 to wot, it gets dull and rich sounding. But really the rest of the range is right on. The temps at 1/4 throttle were 290 on my run.

Iím not sure that itís superior to the 0.6 air brake. One of the drawbacks to using the atomizer this way is the different performance from low to high rpm. The main jet is pretty good at high rpm but feels too big at wot at lower rpm. This is what Iíll be watching, as if it makes my 45mph up a hill in 4th worse than before, I might swap back.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Sun May 27, 2018 10:23 pm quote
Not sure you have finished here yet. When only WOT is too rich, reduce the main jet. Just one jet at a time if there is no obvious splutter at WOT. 1/2 and 1/4 will lean out so be prepared to richen the clip.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon May 28, 2018 6:37 am quote
I had given some thought to that. I will ride it though the paces a bit and then give it a go. It's pretty close, but there might be a little left, right?
Hooked
Douglas 92L2/Bajaj Chetak/GS150 VS5
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Location: Newbury - Berkshire - UK
Tue May 29, 2018 1:38 am quote
If you really want to get the jetting spot on then something like this may be a good long term investment.. I've been eyeing one up for a while now..

https://scooterlab.uk/lambda-probes-jet-scooter-road-tech/
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue May 29, 2018 4:36 am quote
That would be awesome 😎
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Wed May 30, 2018 10:24 pm quote
This all done?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Thu May 31, 2018 3:56 am quote
No I havenít touched it. I should be able to give it a few good rides as is next week to verify the rich spot at wot and then try cutting the main by one. Iíve been playing on the P, trying to get it roughed in. This one is close enough to use whereas that one is definitely not.
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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Location: So Cal
Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:45 am quote
Glad you got your CP dialed in, John. Theyíre sweet little carbs, good to have a thread here on jetting them. And thank you Jack for the useful info and tips.

Just put a CP24 on my smallie. Itís not fully tuned yet, but right out of the chocks power is up and engine temps are down 75-100F across the board using the same size jets I was running in my CP21.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:46 am quote
This feels really good. The question of the main is still out there a bit. The way it goes is that the main doesn't feel rich at maybe 45 mph in 4th WOT up a hill. But at 55 mph, there is a slight rich as you go from 7/8 to full throttle. I can try dropping the main one jet size, but really it isn't high on my priority list as the bike feels really solid and so much better than when we began. Plus I want to get the P working .
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:42 pm quote
Ok I put in the 116 (down from 118 that I rode today), I have to know if itís better. Iíll report out next time I ride it. It was more pronounced with the heat of the day.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:25 pm quote
If you can feel it is rich, it is usually quite a bit. Keep an eye on the WOT plug colour over the next few hundred miles and adjust from there.

Might need to go rich half a clip if 1/2 is was weaker.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:41 am quote
Yes I can imagine that if the main moves much the clip will have to raise up.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
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Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:48 pm quote
116 for the win, no more rich feeling from 7/8 to wot.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:47 pm quote
So, all done? That's it? Yay
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4673
Location: So Cal
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:55 pm quote
So whatís the final jetting... idle, needle, clip, atomizer bushing, etc..?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:35 am quote
Final jetting
2.6 bushing, leaner needle of the 2
1.0 hand drilled air brake
34 idle
116 main
2nd clip

I'm still running fixed timing at ET3 setting (20 degrees). Plug is B8HS.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:54 pm quote
Would like some sound recording of how she rides to check there is no concern. Could also run this through GSFDyno and check the final score.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:33 pm quote
This setup with air corrector seems more sensitive to air temp. This AM I rode it and it was 5c or about 40f. This afternoon about 10c or 50f. 3/4 temps now like 360 at the stud. 0-1/2 is fine. Should I amp up the main or try a 0.8mm air corrector in place of the 1.0? Iím thinking 1-2 jets higher (2-4 numbers) for starters. No sign of air leaks.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:22 pm quote
FYI for reference the normal max Iíd see would be 330ish.
Molto Verboso
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 1276
Location: London UK
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:05 am quote
How is the temperature at 1/4? If this is about normal then the main jet is too small.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 3689
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:38 am quote
Yes about normal. I will bump up the main.
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