How to cheat and get a barn find.
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Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1996 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 1470
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri May 10, 2019 8:43 am quote
Fabricator level, over 9999...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6888
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri May 10, 2019 4:03 pm quote
Awesome, truly!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1468

Fri May 10, 2019 4:59 pm quote
Ha, ha! We pretty much have the same lathe...while yours is a Ryobi, mine’s a Dewalt!
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Fri May 10, 2019 5:01 pm quote
Pretty sure the rest of us just realized we have owned lathes for years.
Had no idea!
Awesome!
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Fri May 10, 2019 5:09 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Ha, ha! We pretty much have the same lathe...while yours is a Ryobi, mine’s a Dewalt!
I do have Dewalt envy. I think every Ryobi owner does deep down.
Ginch wrote:
I wonder if instead of coming out the side, the end of the cable beyond the pinch screw could go straight on through another hole? Less bends seem to help longevity.
Been thinking more on this. Longevity also because of ease of fitment - getting the damn cable around that corner sucks. And that causes damage - right near the business end. And my asymmetric depth track could be better (and mean the cable doesn't move up and down as the pulley turns).

So version 2... (with all the math)

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Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat May 11, 2019 7:57 pm quote
Finished but not installed yet...

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Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 12, 2019 4:25 am quote
Happy with version 2. Had to use the old VBB throttle cable... (px one was trashed).

Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Mon May 13, 2019 2:08 pm quote
Dude - that's amazing.
- even without the opening credits -

Can't wait to see this one fired up.
Expect it will be a pleasure to ride.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Tue May 14, 2019 10:31 pm quote
The gear and clutch side are turning out to be more challenging. Getting there... haven't connected this yet. Crossing fingers.

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Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed May 15, 2019 5:51 pm quote
Stoked! Clutch and gears working =) Hardest part of the headset - the deeper I get into the build the more everything has to line up just right. I have no idea how much tension is on the clutch cable through the tubes... but it pulls like butter atm. And the gear roll just about lines up 4th.

TBH I had given up on lining the gears up and just wanted as short a shift as I could get out of the pulley (to minimise rotation on the clutch cable). I reckon my diameter is about 42mm.

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Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed May 15, 2019 5:53 pm quote
Gears lining up...

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Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed May 15, 2019 6:09 pm quote
Also discovered a couple of tricks....

Replace the M5 hex bolt on the trunnions in the selector box with grub screws. Tightening the trunnion is so much easier because can hold the trunnion with a size 8 spanner and tighten the grub with an allen key. Can't fit an 8 and 7 spanner on together otherwise...

Also... line trimmer cord makes a good fish tape. And getting PX cables through my VBB frame needs one. And even then it's an epic battle.

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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1124
Location: Florence, OR
Wed May 15, 2019 6:29 pm quote
Incredible PPlucker. Simply amazing. Great job. I'm following along because I'm in awe of you making this happen!

Thanks for letting us all tag along!
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed May 15, 2019 6:35 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
Incredible PPlucker. Simply amazing. Great job. I'm following along because I'm in awe of you making this happen!

Thanks for letting us all tag along!
Chur! All good.

I'm so happy right now - I thought the clutch cable and gears might defeat me for a while there - seemed really tight getting the clutch cable through the inner tube. Had visions of having to cut such big holes in it that it would be too weak. So to feel it slide from 1st to 4th and not have the clutch cable complain or hold it all up is a big step forward.

The headset is 90% done and I can put it away until final build!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6888
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed May 15, 2019 6:47 pm quote
Fantastic work! Seems so roomy in there compared to mine.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
Fantastic work! Seems so roomy in there compared to mine.
Wiring...

But I have a plan... ;P
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 19, 2019 12:17 am quote
New puzzle...

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6888
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun May 19, 2019 2:39 pm quote
PX?
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 19, 2019 4:08 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
PX?
Yeah, from the wreck I stole the motor from.

Probably should’ve labeled the loom when I stripped it! But was in a rush.
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Sun May 19, 2019 9:57 pm quote
loom shot cause outloud chuckle.
like the grub screw replacement for the gear cable tension - great touch.

Just curious - you show your brake line wire tied to a fab'ed piece of aluminum that is connected to the gear change tube. What is the purpose of that component?

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what's up with this?

Molto Verboso
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 1468

Sun May 19, 2019 10:49 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
Ginch wrote:
PX?
Yeah, from the wreck I stole the motor from.

Probably should’ve labeled the loom when I stripped it! But was in a rush.
At one point, Beedspeed had a bunch of wire diagrams on their website. So if you can't figure out some of them, take a look over there. I don't know if they're still on there once they updated their website though. I happened to us a Euro PX (with battery, with starter) harness in my PK200 project, and it worked fantastic for that.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 19, 2019 11:02 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Just curious - you show your brake line wire tied to a fab'ed piece of aluminum that is connected to the gear change tube. What is the purpose of that component?
Just a clamp to keep the hydraulic hose away from everything else. Will upgrade it a little bit it works. Stops is going near the gear pulley. Can get the angle right to go under the speedo and above the headlamp.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun May 19, 2019 11:03 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
pheasant plucker wrote:
Ginch wrote:
PX?
Yeah, from the wreck I stole the motor from.

Probably should’ve labeled the loom when I stripped it! But was in a rush.
At one point, Beedspeed had a bunch of wire diagrams on their website. So if you can't figure out some of them, take a look over there. I don't know if they're still on there once they updated their website though. I happened to us a Euro PX (with battery, with starter) harness in my PK200 project, and it worked fantastic for that.
Awesome to hear. It makes sense to use it... just need to make sense of it to use it.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6888
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon May 20, 2019 2:04 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
pheasant plucker wrote:
Ginch wrote:
PX?
Yeah, from the wreck I stole the motor from.

Probably should’ve labeled the loom when I stripped it! But was in a rush.
At one point, Beedspeed had a bunch of wire diagrams on their website. So if you can't figure out some of them, take a look over there. I don't know if they're still on there once they updated their website though. I happened to us a Euro PX (with battery, with starter) harness in my PK200 project, and it worked fantastic for that.
Unfortunately they disappeared with the change of website. It was a great resource, somehow those diagrams were especially easy to read.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Fri May 24, 2019 12:30 am quote
Think I may have solved the front alignment. The SIP 2.50-11" tubeless rims finally got released. Took a punt that going wider might work (knowing it doesn't make sense, but sense hasn't worked so far). Tyre's so fat I think it helps hide the offset - much like the rear. The 70 profile is the nuts. Now I can finish the guard.

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Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Fri May 24, 2019 4:17 pm quote
Someone's been shopping.
Can't remember what your other width was now.
But looks like you spec'd same height using shorter sidewall.
Will be interested to hear how you like the difference in feel of the two - should you try both up front.

Did you have the 2.10 10 rims before?
I thought you were going with the 2.5's all along.
This one is just taller rim - right?
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Fri May 24, 2019 5:21 pm quote
Ok - flashed back through.
It looks like you have:
- 3.5-10 (assume 2.1 width rim)
- 100/90 - 10 (assume 2.5 rim)
- Godzilla's girlfriend's birth control ring aka 110/70 - 11 (2.5 rims)

Question - do you still have your vbb motor casing lying about?
Curious about the 110/70 11 fit to that - uncut.
Assume it probably rubs - but wonder if it just misses?

I'm sure you have other move-forward projects on your list...
But would be interesting to see if those 100/90 10s are really the width cut off or not for tires on a non cut motor...
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Fri May 24, 2019 5:49 pm quote
I don’t think I’d have any way to mount them - only 8” hubs on the 150. But if you can mount a PX suitable rim on your 150 then there is no reason these won’t mount. The wide tyre 11” rim has offset to clear the fork/ clutch cover/ swing arm. 4mm over a standard rim.
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Fri May 24, 2019 7:46 pm quote
Thanks!
Was a bit of a fishing expedition...
Forgot the 8" issue.
Mine already converted to 10".
Replacing rims and tires on this go round of upgrades to tubeless.
2.5 width rim in the plan.
Offset and wide tire not a bad thing for my setup - as bike corners flat.
They will give me a slightly wider stance - so they were a given.
100/90's (if I want 17" of height) or 100/80's (if I want 16 and change) were the front and center options.
Your post on the 11's opened up a new set of choices I didn't realize existed.
Thanks!

SIP catalog classifies all tires over 100 in width as "wide tire".
What I was curious about is if the 110 truly won't fit without the case mod - as 110/70's is same overall height - with a good selection of tires that fit.
Helpful that you are beating a path on this one.
Expands options.
Hooked
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat May 25, 2019 12:04 am quote
No need to cut the engine mount with the 2.50-11. Only the 3.0’s. Will give 4mm offset left (vs 14mm with the 3.0’s)

From SIP:

2.50-11: The ultimate solution for a wide tyre conversion! This revised version is now available with a smoother, more harmonious looking design. These wheels cause a slight 4mm misalignment, which allows the use of a larger tyre without having to resort to using spacer washers or longer mounting studs. The misalignment of the rear wheel can be compensated for by swing-arm mounting modification, although this is not strictly necessary as handling and ride-ability remain largely unaffected. This wheel can be mounted with a 110/70-11 sized tyre to any vintage 10” wheeled Vespa model. Additionally the 120/70-11 sized tyres can be fitted to the rear axle of the largeframe models with no clearance problems.
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bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat May 25, 2019 12:09 am quote
Which is why I can use it on the front.. with a 110 width not 120. And guessing 120 on the rear still won’t need mount cutting... (as per SIP) - just when you go 130 on a 3.0. Which makes sense given it is 10mm wider that you need to drop 10mm (although it is only 5mm each side..)

I’ll tell you what... I’ll try remember to put that wheel on the back when I drop the engine (yes I need to drop the engine to change the wheel) and see what the offset is like.
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Sat May 25, 2019 7:32 am quote
Pheas' - thanks! Now more clear.
I had misunderstood their "wide tire" to be anything over 100/90 and require cutting of swing arm mount.

"we recommend that only tyres with a size up to 100/90-10' be used. No modifications are necessary to either the motor or the frame." was reference to max tire width for 2.5 rim, not max tire width to avoid cutting frame.
Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Mon May 27, 2019 12:19 pm quote
Pheas' - since you are holding the modern world's equivalent of Heidenau fort knox, wonder if you could educate us on the following?
(promise - last call for measures... this week anyway).

Online tire calc says heights should be:
110/70-11 = 17.1" or 434mm
100/90-10 = 17.1" or 434mm
100/80-10= 16.4" or 414
3.5/10 = 16.5" or 416mm

'course that's theoretical.
Measuring can be as tricky as figuring out port heights...
I put mine flat on the floor/ up against a wall to give me something to measure off.

Would be great data to have tho - not many of us have ever held or seen an 11" tire in short wall profile like those 110/70's.

Edited with additional tire size & accurate conversion to metric...

Last edited by charlieman22 on Mon May 27, 2019 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Mon May 27, 2019 4:56 pm quote
I'd say the calcs are pretty close. Certainly close enough to use for plotting and planing. Happy to measure them when I get a chance tho. I plan on running them all when I can to compare handling also - that will be months away! And need to have a big stash of Nord lock washers (single use...)

Worth mentioning - the 110/70-11 is proper wide. Could look weird on a vintage build... Even the 100/90-10 is wider than a standard PX (which is wider than OG VBB). Obviously that is what I'm after for my build. I suspect handling wont be significantly altered by the width - that's what most people say anyway. Maybe the low profile will help road return? End of the day, it's probably wisest to choose based on the look you are after more than anything.

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Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Mon May 27, 2019 6:55 pm quote
Thanks for the insights.
Have been experimenting with different tires I currently have - as you plan to do.
Quote:
Worth mentioning - the 110/70-11 is proper wide.
Did a mock up on mine today - you aren't kidding.

I have a different set of challenges to try and optimize - flatter profile can be beneficial in my case as tire patch widens.

Will likely have to fit a few and see what I like in the end.
Made a few corrections on above calcs.
No rush - will be interested to know what the actuals are if they vary "widely"
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bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:31 pm quote
Practiced enough with the mig that welds are holding...

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bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 362
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:35 pm quote
So time to get the guard on...

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Hooked
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 436
Location: california
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:14 am quote
Damn Pheas' nice first efforts. Looks great.

Welcome back!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x2 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 6886
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:36 am quote
Way to weld there, Mr Beginner.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 6888
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:59 pm quote
Nice.
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